If you have the exact same hunch about Eli then I can see what you were trying to do with your vote on him, but I think it was executed too early to work like your hunch on Pilgrim. What with 2 players absent and 2 still catching up on the thread.
Bantering aside for a moment, Pizzaguy made a similar comment about Eli gathering a lot of 'wolf' leans but no real votes, but then took the opposite stance of deciding to protect Eli in case he's a special. I don't see how Pizza even made that leap; do you see anything at all which would give Pizzaguy that sort of idea?
I got a little bit and I'm refreshed and not irritated at the moment.
I know I missed some things from the peeps I said I would interact with and respond to. If you're online and I missed something, help me out and direct me to the post you want me to respond to.
I am not at work today or tomorrow, and I am "at rest" in terms of actively pushing anyone. My top 2 are Hawk and Magorian Aximand.
I'm literally never lynching Phonemelter this game, and I'm aware this does absolutely nothing about his scum read on me or his irritation with me or his desire to lynch me. It's quite simple- he's not a wolf, therefore it doesn't matter, at all, in the slightest, that I bother him and he bothers me and we can't get along properly, and I've given up on talking to him because unproductive.
That doesn't matter, it's basically how I approach an inactive slot in a Turbo game. I'd rather lose at not-must-lynch but it is must-lynch because of inactive person, than simply waste lynches on inactives I don't think are scum. There have been cases where I policy lynched inactives, but in a short turbo where only 3 mislynches exist, wasting one on the 90% likelihood of absentee townie just reeks of stupid. I'd rather lose the 10 percent of games where it is an inactive scum. It's just good policy.
If I think X is town then it doesn't matter if they won't rest until I am the lynch. It doesn't matter if I irritate them and vice-versa, it doesn't matter if they post 25 pages of material saying lynch pizza or I'm stonewalling the game.
If that player is a villager, you don't lynch there. Period.
Even if Phonemelter lynches me, you Do Not Lynch Him Back. Ever. Not even at final three.
I cannot be as charitable toward Pharaoh X Llandy, however, at this time, if I were to name a number 2 villager to not lynch anytime soon, that would be Pharaoh.
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Phonemelter- I cannot support you on lynching Eli today, but would consider it in future rounds if my gut tells me that's the right move.
I won't lynch myself, I'm not that bad at the game.
Llandy is also not on my list of options.
Adaham? Looks villagery to me but it's not deep blue. In your bottom 4, this is the only place I'd go, and it wouldn't feel good to me to go there. It just feels like a bad move to lynch someone you have as quite villagery if not a lock. If Adaham were to flip wolf, and I helped you lynch him, that might help you read me better, but... I don't think it's worth it to take such a risk on a villager read. It's only worth it if he is a wolf. I'm not there yet, you'll have to paint that picture and I'd be skeptical.
Your Hawk/Magorian group? You know I'm there. I'm always there, on either one of them, today. You say the word. Maybe we suck at working together as villagers, but I'm sure as hell not going to not help you lynch either one of those.
I would agree with you regarding Soot's villager-ness, Xardob, I am not sure. I keep flipping my perspective on him. He doesn't feel like my dog, I don't feel like I can count on him.
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Pharaoh X Llandy:
I have Soot as villagery.
I have you as my top 2 villager. If I were to flip one blue read to a red, it would be as a personal favor to you.
I don't think we should lynch there today. But if I cannot get Magorian or Hawk lynched, I will assist you, simply because at that point, either town simply refuses to lynch wolves, or I am having a really really bad day one and I'd rather help my top 2 townread lynch someone I don't have as deep blue.
You have to be really sure, but yes, I would give it careful consideration. I'm not happy with it, but consider my vote support there in a situation where the counter-wagon is not Hawk or Magorian.
Is that going to be good enough, or would you insist I move my vote there now?
Dropping the Neoxardobism routine when it is convenient for Magorian to accuse his accuser after Pizzaguy has seemingly lost the will to continue.
I’ve tried to be patient but there’s only so much I’m willing to accept “neoxardobism” as an excuse for. Whilst it’s true that Pizzaguy has outright stated he’s going to avoid answering some questions from those he finds suspicious, I find his stance more understandable after re-examining this exchange. I find that Pizzaguy is generally willing to answer questions when they are posed rationally -- hell, I’ve pushed my questioning of him pretty far too. The reasoning of “I’m not responding to this because one of the people accusing me is wolfy and the other is going nowhere” is understandable when considered from the innocent-Pizza perspective. If he is innocent, he thinks the accusations against him are wolfy and there comes a point where you just have to say ‘enough is enough’. I think Pizzaguy has reached that point and it gives me a stronger innocent read of him than my LoS analysis.
Mags’ switch from short and snappy NeoX style (and apparent pleasure derived from said style) to his more usual verbose style is a jarring inconsistency at best. At worst it is a way to switch between different styles to suit his needs and is the scummier of the two positions IMO.
For me it is enough now that you consider it, though neither of your top 2 reads are in my top 2 to lynch either.
Would you respond to the question I asked Xardob? I just don't see how you got special innocent read out of Eli when he's posted so little and what he has posted is not exactly reassuring.
@SootShade, I just literally sold you out, to Pharaoh X Llandy.
I want you to hit me with your honest reaction. I have you as a villager read and I said I'd join Pharaoh in lynching you if X and Y are not the lynch.
For me it is enough now that you consider it, though neither of your top 2 reads are in my top 2 to lynch either.
Would you respond to the question I asked Xardob? I just don't see how you got special innocent read out of Eli when he's posted so little and what he has posted is not exactly reassuring.
Every single one where you've said I'm a wolf. Then there are all the more specific ones on points that you have since moved on from, reluctantly conceding them only to try to find more.
That is not proof that I am wrong. You can only claim that I'm wrong. The only proof would be you dying and flippoing blue. If that happens I will concede that I am wrong.
Unvote: Magorian, who is still my preferred lynch by miles and miles, and it frustrates me that I am getting no support from my village.
Vote: SootShade, putting you at three votes.
I apologize for this if you are a villager. This makes me uneasy but... inside your walls of text, I am seeing much in the way of equivocation. You are of two minds about almost everything. Take a stand.
That equivocation went past my radar on the first read, but Pharaoh pointing it out, is a thing. A villagery thing.
Also, this reveals to the other players here, if Pharaoh makes a long and logical case against Soot, does that move Pizza's vote?
The answer is yes, particularly after you just told me what I wouldn't do.
I also revealed days ago that if Magorian would not get additional votes, my vote would move again.
In short, if Magorian is a villager, I gave everyone here plenty of time to help me make that lynch happen. I didn't rush, I even gave extra time, because I REALLY REALLY want that lynch to happen.
It is only now, when it is clear I will be peeing into the wind with such a vote, that I move, reluctantly, but helping Pharaoh lynch a suspect, even if I don't fully agree. It's the only thing I'm useful for right now.
Lol "if magorian is a villager," etc. Meaning to type wolf.
These are the sorts of no-proofread-needed ninja-edits I would make on my native forums. I'm respecting the rules and culture here and acknowledging the fact that I just cut a huge fart.
It's a simple, normal error. No wolf-slip. I don't do those.
Regarding the question you asked me the other day about a possible Soot/Mag pack. I hate hunting for packs without a confirmed wolf to provide a link, but given how Soot's subtle shift of near-universal approval for Pizzaguy's play turned into the wishy-washy bet-hedging I pointed out in my case, I could see this as one packmate directing another (Mag directing Soot, since Soot seemed to echo Mag and defend him in some ways) or a wolf exploiting the opportunity to try to slowly edge towards one 'side' of two innocents.
Hawk I keep picturing as a member of Magorian's wolf-pack.... but, it's based on so little. It's just that reluctance to push Hawk-suspect from Magorian.
But, he's still stubborn about it, I think if I'm misreading Magorian!Wolf as having Hawk!Villager as his wolf buddy, then Magorian!Wolf continues to allow me to think that way, deliberately.
As such, it divides Pizza and Hawk, and causes at least one mislynch, perhaps two, among the Pizza and Hawk group.
The banter between Magorian and Xardob reads fake to me. I think they are far too buddy-buddy and any interaction they have for the past several days gives me the same feeling as someone poking me in the kidneys. It's sharp and uncomfortable and I'm wondering why in the blue hell it keeps happening.
Magorian/Xardob looking more and more likely. Especially after Xardob's responses to me, and his interaction with Magorian.
SootShade hanging back and equivocating makes three.
Magorian/Soot/Xardob in that lynch order, exactly, is my preference as of this moment.
That is not proof that I am wrong. You can only claim that I'm wrong. The only proof would be you dying and flippoing blue. If that happens I will concede that I am wrong.
'Proof' is completely beyond the point of that post. And no, I have no interest in dying just to spite you.
I currently want to lynch either Kronic or Adaham. Hawk is the third option for me, but as I've given him more thought, I actually don't think his case on me was necessarily scummy. Mainly because Vieira has gone along the similar lines of reasoning and come up with a better case. I still want to see more from both Kronic and Hawk today, though.
Magorian and Pizza have both said their share of questionable things, but I don't really consider them as lynch candidates for today, and they've both also made very good cases for themselves in other parts of the thread.
Llandy, Xardob and Frisian I think are most likely innocents and I won't consider lynching them at all for now.
Vieira and Face are my best innocent reads, and I likely won't ever consider lynching them.
My LoS entries I made as I read through the game again, and the first four were specifically the ones I was most uncertain about placing originally. I won't be able to make much clearer stances on those, unless assigning an arbitrary color as I did above will make you feel more comfortable.
I have to give you a generic answer, because I don't remember exactly where I began feeling that way. However the answer here is 100% honest: I have to say that because I've already been playing dishonestly for certain reasons, at times.
I don't know Eli from Adam (only from Adaham) but they are playing in a way that strikes me as a villager who tensed up because they got an important role, and didn't want to attract attention, suspicion, or seem threatening to wolves.
Now look, pointing that out doesn't do Eli a whole lot of favors, night-survival-wise, but getting lynched is far worse, and eats one of our lynches.
Given the idea that the entire thread is wolf-reading Eli, if he were to now draw a murder, in spite of the value of his role, we've turned a mislynch into a murder, and therefore gained one additional shot to lynch an actual wolf.
This is how I feel- regardless of Eli's role, if he has one, which he can't tell us, if he's a villager, and he eats a lynch, that denies us all the work we've done Day One, and given the wolves an additional shot at village.
No matter who Eli actually is, if he's a villager, if he draws a night kill now, it is immensely better that he does so rather than a lynch.
I want a dead wolf today. I'm prepared to point all kinds of fingers at a possible village power and get him murdered rather than lynch him by mistake.
So, if my read on Eli is correct, that he is not vanilla, that means that he gets resolved before end of game.
If wolves never murder him, then, his likelihood of being a wolf increases. But if he's got a power he can impact the game positively in the interim.
If he doesn't, let's say my read is wrong, and he is just a vanilla villager, then guess what, if the wolves think he's a power he gets ate anyway, and that's like even 10 times more better for village. A mislynched vanilla ate a murder instead of someone more pressing.
And if he is a wolf, that should become clear in time, and since he's universally wolf-read, that means I have faith he gets re-examined before it is too late.
the order of operations matters.
Let's say he is a wolf. But everyone thinks he is. But then we lynch a different wolf.
Now the wolf team basically always loses that game. The points against Eli still stand.
And again, if he is a village power, he gets more chances to use that power before we lynch him paranoid-ly.
I just do not see any possible downside to this approach to Eli.
The only downside is if he is a wolf, and people lose that read, and never lynch him before must-lynch. Or if he's got a power as a wolf that is particularly useful to wolves. I don't know.
But there's so much here for village to gain, tactically, using my approach.
That's the overall picture. If needed, I can go back to where I asked for a thread-temperature reading and see where I began suspecting that, but it shouldn't be necessary. I think you can, if you are a villager, go back and see what I saw independently.
@ Every villager besides Phone and.... Llandy, really-
Thought experiment: Tell me what I saw in Eli, don't ask me what I saw. Tell me.
Take a stab at trying to find the same brainwave I had. If you can find it on your own, then I didn't just make up the fact that I felt this way. I don't know how useful this is to the solve, but... it should tell you something.
Now follow the above logic- is this not the correct stance to take versus Eli?
High yield for low risk, IMO.
Wolves don't think this way, guys.
Again, I know you tire of hearing this, but I believe in the strategy, even if I'm not fully connecting with my village right now, I know you guys can get me. You can village-read me.
This is another post this game which I simply couldn't come up with as a wolf, and I say that as a guy who says all the time that there's nothing I can't do as a wolf, because I like to hype myself, and am confident in my wolf game. Here's a moment where if I am being honest, I cannot duplicate my village performance. It's too deep a village mindset to fake.
