Looks like I need to start catching up with your drinking. 
[Werewolf] SMAC: Unity [Game ends!]
- 主题发起人 MaHuD
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Ooh. Hone posting. Sounds interesting and edgy
Xardob 说:
A question easily answered through the use of Star Trek memes!
I continue to be baffled by people thinking it's amazing that they can post while intoxicated. Just goes along with my boring teetotaller attitude which has netted me just... so many irl friends.
I'm always the life of the party.
I'm always the life of the party.
I fail to see why being sober should make you clam up or be dishonest as a villager.
Xardob 说:
I do!
Pharaoh X Llandy 说:Xardob 说:
I do!
Ha!
A list of vibes/thoughts. I may expand on it in a few days, but this is where I’m at right now. Starting with the quieter players, because there’s less of their stuff to read.
FrisianDude
It’s still too early for me to get a solid read on Frisian, but the vibes I have so far are fairly good. He tells a few jokes, which is standard for him, but he also makes a few keen observations. One is here where he admits that he’s more likely to defend somebody he knows a little better. This comes across as honest to me; he could have tried to deny it, but his self-reflection shows that he is aware of some of his own habits and how they might colour his interactions with other players. So that gives me a good vibe.
Another post of his that I like is here, where he attempts a little peace-keeping. The thing that strikes me most is the balanced way in which Frisian advises both Pizza and Melter to step back and look at the situation anew after reviewing some other players. I think at this stage, a wolf would have been more interested in keeping the argument going. He doesn’t seem to favour one side over the other, except to say that it kinda seems like Pizza is clawing at Melter. Again, that feels to me like a genuine observation preceding his peace-keeping post.
Frisian’s ’slapdash’ LoS is very underwhelming, with everybody Neutral, except Eli and Xardob who are ‘probably innocent’ and Hawk who is ‘hard to read’. Despite him taking some heat for not taking a stance, I think this LoS actually speaks more in Frisian’s favour right now. Using the little meta I have on him, I think that if he was scum he would have tried harder to invent some reasons for having a suspicious player or two on his LoS and make it look like he’s attempting to hunt. If he’s still got everybody in ‘Neutral’ after another 2-3 days, however, I will review my opinion about this aspect of his play.
Overall, I’m getting a fairly good vibe from Frisian. Having been a Crazy Panda with him, I know that he struggles sometimes as scum to perform, especially under pressure. He’s also been far less jokey than I associate with his scum play. I know this has been a really fast game at the start, but I hope Frisian keeps on top of it and contributes on a regular basis.
Vermillion Hawk
Nothing particularly noteworthy in Hawk’s entry, except the fact that he didn’t vote for himself. But he hasn’t done that in the past couple of games he’s played either, so hopefully he’s dropped doing that. In his first real post he points out that his absence hasn’t been a real absence, it just looks like it has been an absence relative to the activity of most other players. I agree with this. In the same post, he singles out Soot’s LoS and points out Soot seems to be trying to play both sides of the Pizza/Melter argument, an assessment I also largely agree with.
After thinking about this for some time, though, I have to wonder why he focuses on Soot. After all, Soot is not the only one to have taken a neutral (or ‘both innocent’) stance on the Pizza/Melter debate. As well, Soot isn’t the only player to have ‘also avoided being under the lens in any significant way’. At this stage, several of us hadn’t really been under the lens much, and that was in part because of the Pizza/Melter war which overshadowed much of the earlier day.
Hawk also points out one player from Soot’s innocent list and one from his scum list, as players he also thinks are scummy. I need to hear more about why Hawk thinks like he does about those players before I can judge whether he is doing what he accuses Soot of doing by keeping his options open.
Apart from Soot, Hawk seems to have suspicions of Adaham and Pizzaguy, but hasn’t don’t anything with these suspicions yet. I’d also like to see Hawk interacting with a wider range of players so I can better gauge him. So far it feels like he’s skirting the ‘bare minimum’ of posting, which could be a scummy way of trying to lurk just above the radar. Need to see more input, and soon, so that I can decide whether that’s what he’s actually doing. For now, I don’t have a read on him either way.
Elisianthus
Opening semi-joke about Soot and Mag being wolves. His next post is the one which some players take exception to, as he seems to leave himself a way out to reverse his opinion on Pizza. I’ve read and re-read that paragraph four or five times, and I’m still just seeing it as an unfiltered ramble. Upon fifth re-read, though, there are a couple of other things about that paragraph that flag up to me. The first is that he says Pizza is “neutral, with wolfish tendencies.”
What are wolfish tendencies? I don’t know. Eli does not elaborate on this, or on what things Pizza is doing/saying which he feels are wolfish. It’s this sort of unquantified statement that I feel more suspicious than what some have described as a ‘back door.’ Also, Eli is (IIRC) the first player to take a ‘one is an innocent/one is a wolf’ stance on the Pizza/Melter situation, albeit giving Pizza a very slight wolf suspicion. I can’t say that this is outright scummy to me, but I could see it as a way of testing the waters by offering up Pizza as a ‘slight wolf’ suspect and seeing if anybody takes it further. And I think that Pizza is an easier target to do this with than Melter, because he’s new, nobody other than Adaham has any meta on him, and as Adaham pointed out and Frisian accepted, there may be a tendency for people to defend those they are familiar with.
One thing I do not like about Eli’s play is his use of statistics. Granted, one of his posts including them was prompted by a question by Pizza, but as soon as I see statistics in posts, my mind switches off. I know it’s not inherently scummy, but I dislike math in my WW, and for Eli to quantify his suspicions with numbers whilst leaving something more basic (like the definition of what are ‘wolfish tendencies’ in Pizza’s case) just feels a bit off. I’ll think more on that as the game progresses.
Eli’s post here now starts ringing some alarm bells with me. For example, he compares Pizza to Whoopin in this post and the last, but even if they have similar styles, Pizza and Whoopin are two different players, who will think differently and play differently. At this point it feels like “he posts like Whoopin, and I’ve been wrong about him in the past” is just starting to become an excuse for Eli to either swing his suspicion away from Pizza, or excuse himself if Pizza flips blue.
In this same post, Eli says to Soot about Pizza, “As a result, while I'm not going to dismiss my gut, I'm going to wait for other pointers before I jump down their throat and start trying to choke them,” and then directly after says to Magorian, “I mean, I'll happily lynch you, Soot and Pizza if you want a shortlist, but it's day one and I'm willing to see how things go.” So, Eli doesn’t want to jump down Pizza’s throat and start choking them (presumably by this he means put pressure on and start questioning?) but he’s “happy” to off-handedly lynch Pizza, even though he tries to mitigate that straight away by saying it’s Day 1 and he’s willing to see how things go?
I take exception to the first comment to Soot, because Eli seems to be giving an excuse as to why he’s suspicious of Pizza but not actually questioning him. You don’t have to ‘jump down his throat’ but if you don’t question him and barely interact with him, how are you going to better judge his alignment? Post ends with some waffling about Neoxardobism cramping his “**** you” style of posting.
Another post but one that doesn’t say very much. Eli spends some time telling Adaham how he plays the game. By this point I’d rather that Eli just got on with actually playing it, instead of telling us how he plays it. To some extent it’s useful to see the thought-processes which go on behind decisions and actions, but we will see for ourselves how you play, and this comes across as starting to make excuses again.
Eli’s final post so far feels like the first one where he’s actually being genuine with his observations, and I agree with his post. He does bring up a valid concern about Pizza allowing somebody to lead his vote, and given recent events I think that concern is even more valid, since Pizza has completely switched is read on the person (Magorian) whose vote he wanted to follow.
But again, this is a Pizza-related post, and it puts me in mind of Frisian’s comment about Pizza clawing at Melter, only this time it’s looking like Eli starting to claw at Pizza. I could be mistaken, but I don’t think Eli was the first to express concern with Pizza allowing Mags to lead his vote, so even though I think Eli’s observation is genuine, I don’t think it particularly adds anything to the discussion, and in fact could be an attempt to shift the attention square back to Pizza. The timing is very suspicious.
Although initially I had a neutral read of Eli, he’s crept up to a scum read now. Main reasons being lack of real investigation, focusing on one player too much, attempting to push attention back to that player just when other players were starting to look elsewhere.
Right, my section on Eli was a little longer than I intended, but I had to pick more closely because I have no meta for him. Expect my Pizza analysis to be just as long or probably longer, but I will do him later.
For now I will cut this off here and come back later with some more observations. Must now have breakfast and coffee; feel free to comment on anything I’ve said here, but don’t expect a response till I’ve finished my LoS.
FrisianDude
It’s still too early for me to get a solid read on Frisian, but the vibes I have so far are fairly good. He tells a few jokes, which is standard for him, but he also makes a few keen observations. One is here where he admits that he’s more likely to defend somebody he knows a little better. This comes across as honest to me; he could have tried to deny it, but his self-reflection shows that he is aware of some of his own habits and how they might colour his interactions with other players. So that gives me a good vibe.
Another post of his that I like is here, where he attempts a little peace-keeping. The thing that strikes me most is the balanced way in which Frisian advises both Pizza and Melter to step back and look at the situation anew after reviewing some other players. I think at this stage, a wolf would have been more interested in keeping the argument going. He doesn’t seem to favour one side over the other, except to say that it kinda seems like Pizza is clawing at Melter. Again, that feels to me like a genuine observation preceding his peace-keeping post.
Frisian’s ’slapdash’ LoS is very underwhelming, with everybody Neutral, except Eli and Xardob who are ‘probably innocent’ and Hawk who is ‘hard to read’. Despite him taking some heat for not taking a stance, I think this LoS actually speaks more in Frisian’s favour right now. Using the little meta I have on him, I think that if he was scum he would have tried harder to invent some reasons for having a suspicious player or two on his LoS and make it look like he’s attempting to hunt. If he’s still got everybody in ‘Neutral’ after another 2-3 days, however, I will review my opinion about this aspect of his play.
Overall, I’m getting a fairly good vibe from Frisian. Having been a Crazy Panda with him, I know that he struggles sometimes as scum to perform, especially under pressure. He’s also been far less jokey than I associate with his scum play. I know this has been a really fast game at the start, but I hope Frisian keeps on top of it and contributes on a regular basis.
Vermillion Hawk
Nothing particularly noteworthy in Hawk’s entry, except the fact that he didn’t vote for himself. But he hasn’t done that in the past couple of games he’s played either, so hopefully he’s dropped doing that. In his first real post he points out that his absence hasn’t been a real absence, it just looks like it has been an absence relative to the activity of most other players. I agree with this. In the same post, he singles out Soot’s LoS and points out Soot seems to be trying to play both sides of the Pizza/Melter argument, an assessment I also largely agree with.
After thinking about this for some time, though, I have to wonder why he focuses on Soot. After all, Soot is not the only one to have taken a neutral (or ‘both innocent’) stance on the Pizza/Melter debate. As well, Soot isn’t the only player to have ‘also avoided being under the lens in any significant way’. At this stage, several of us hadn’t really been under the lens much, and that was in part because of the Pizza/Melter war which overshadowed much of the earlier day.
Hawk also points out one player from Soot’s innocent list and one from his scum list, as players he also thinks are scummy. I need to hear more about why Hawk thinks like he does about those players before I can judge whether he is doing what he accuses Soot of doing by keeping his options open.
Apart from Soot, Hawk seems to have suspicions of Adaham and Pizzaguy, but hasn’t don’t anything with these suspicions yet. I’d also like to see Hawk interacting with a wider range of players so I can better gauge him. So far it feels like he’s skirting the ‘bare minimum’ of posting, which could be a scummy way of trying to lurk just above the radar. Need to see more input, and soon, so that I can decide whether that’s what he’s actually doing. For now, I don’t have a read on him either way.
Elisianthus
Opening semi-joke about Soot and Mag being wolves. His next post is the one which some players take exception to, as he seems to leave himself a way out to reverse his opinion on Pizza. I’ve read and re-read that paragraph four or five times, and I’m still just seeing it as an unfiltered ramble. Upon fifth re-read, though, there are a couple of other things about that paragraph that flag up to me. The first is that he says Pizza is “neutral, with wolfish tendencies.”
What are wolfish tendencies? I don’t know. Eli does not elaborate on this, or on what things Pizza is doing/saying which he feels are wolfish. It’s this sort of unquantified statement that I feel more suspicious than what some have described as a ‘back door.’ Also, Eli is (IIRC) the first player to take a ‘one is an innocent/one is a wolf’ stance on the Pizza/Melter situation, albeit giving Pizza a very slight wolf suspicion. I can’t say that this is outright scummy to me, but I could see it as a way of testing the waters by offering up Pizza as a ‘slight wolf’ suspect and seeing if anybody takes it further. And I think that Pizza is an easier target to do this with than Melter, because he’s new, nobody other than Adaham has any meta on him, and as Adaham pointed out and Frisian accepted, there may be a tendency for people to defend those they are familiar with.
One thing I do not like about Eli’s play is his use of statistics. Granted, one of his posts including them was prompted by a question by Pizza, but as soon as I see statistics in posts, my mind switches off. I know it’s not inherently scummy, but I dislike math in my WW, and for Eli to quantify his suspicions with numbers whilst leaving something more basic (like the definition of what are ‘wolfish tendencies’ in Pizza’s case) just feels a bit off. I’ll think more on that as the game progresses.
Eli’s post here now starts ringing some alarm bells with me. For example, he compares Pizza to Whoopin in this post and the last, but even if they have similar styles, Pizza and Whoopin are two different players, who will think differently and play differently. At this point it feels like “he posts like Whoopin, and I’ve been wrong about him in the past” is just starting to become an excuse for Eli to either swing his suspicion away from Pizza, or excuse himself if Pizza flips blue.
In this same post, Eli says to Soot about Pizza, “As a result, while I'm not going to dismiss my gut, I'm going to wait for other pointers before I jump down their throat and start trying to choke them,” and then directly after says to Magorian, “I mean, I'll happily lynch you, Soot and Pizza if you want a shortlist, but it's day one and I'm willing to see how things go.” So, Eli doesn’t want to jump down Pizza’s throat and start choking them (presumably by this he means put pressure on and start questioning?) but he’s “happy” to off-handedly lynch Pizza, even though he tries to mitigate that straight away by saying it’s Day 1 and he’s willing to see how things go?
I take exception to the first comment to Soot, because Eli seems to be giving an excuse as to why he’s suspicious of Pizza but not actually questioning him. You don’t have to ‘jump down his throat’ but if you don’t question him and barely interact with him, how are you going to better judge his alignment? Post ends with some waffling about Neoxardobism cramping his “**** you” style of posting.
Another post but one that doesn’t say very much. Eli spends some time telling Adaham how he plays the game. By this point I’d rather that Eli just got on with actually playing it, instead of telling us how he plays it. To some extent it’s useful to see the thought-processes which go on behind decisions and actions, but we will see for ourselves how you play, and this comes across as starting to make excuses again.
Eli’s final post so far feels like the first one where he’s actually being genuine with his observations, and I agree with his post. He does bring up a valid concern about Pizza allowing somebody to lead his vote, and given recent events I think that concern is even more valid, since Pizza has completely switched is read on the person (Magorian) whose vote he wanted to follow.
But again, this is a Pizza-related post, and it puts me in mind of Frisian’s comment about Pizza clawing at Melter, only this time it’s looking like Eli starting to claw at Pizza. I could be mistaken, but I don’t think Eli was the first to express concern with Pizza allowing Mags to lead his vote, so even though I think Eli’s observation is genuine, I don’t think it particularly adds anything to the discussion, and in fact could be an attempt to shift the attention square back to Pizza. The timing is very suspicious.
Although initially I had a neutral read of Eli, he’s crept up to a scum read now. Main reasons being lack of real investigation, focusing on one player too much, attempting to push attention back to that player just when other players were starting to look elsewhere.
Right, my section on Eli was a little longer than I intended, but I had to pick more closely because I have no meta for him. Expect my Pizza analysis to be just as long or probably longer, but I will do him later.
For now I will cut this off here and come back later with some more observations. Must now have breakfast and coffee; feel free to comment on anything I’ve said here, but don’t expect a response till I’ve finished my LoS.
Expect my Pizza analysis to be just as long or probably longer, but I will do him later.
-Oh myyyyyyyyyyyyyy
Meanwhile, that's a strongly villagery post from Pharaoh.
-Oh myyyyyyyyyyyyyy
Meanwhile, that's a strongly villagery post from Pharaoh.
Starting with the low-posters is something that even I, a fount of exuberance, have to do sometimes when I feel like I have a mountain to climb.
I feel like there's almost no possible way that Pharaoh can be a wolf here, if I were to base my entire read on just the one post. But has been trending skyward for quite some time now.
I'm very comfortable with the read here. Even if somehow Pharaoh reads me wolfy later on. I'm just a tough nut to crack.
I feel like there's almost no possible way that Pharaoh can be a wolf here, if I were to base my entire read on just the one post. But has been trending skyward for quite some time now.
I'm very comfortable with the read here. Even if somehow Pharaoh reads me wolfy later on. I'm just a tough nut to crack.
Third or fourth complete re-read of the game, picture is starting to get clearer....
So come closer as I reach deep inside of you and grab hold of your essence.
Gohan: "I... need an adult?"
Super Kami Guru: "I AM AN ADUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUULT!!!!!!"
Page by Page
Shorthand:
N = Neutral read of the post
W = Gut read this is wolfy
V = Gut read this is villagery
SA = See directly above this
More in depth reads will feature an explanation.
Page One:
Magorian has eliminated several players of being his wolf buddies. Looks wolfy, several posts cited as to why.
Xardob had a neutral/lousy page One, but there's nothing un-villagery here. Just nothing villagery.
Adaham gets a slight but firm villager lean.
Vieira a little shaky, but I think he's okay here, even villagery.
Hawk uninvolved and wolfy.
Sootshade had a better page One than I initially read. Retrospect and more familiarity with Soot over time encourages this read. Slightly but firmly villagery.
Frisian is not much for content so far this game but looks great page One, and is almost never wolves with Magorian.
Phonemelter alien to me but I see the humor because of more familiarity and picking up on the references. Slight V.
Continuing with Page 2.
So come closer as I reach deep inside of you and grab hold of your essence.
Gohan: "I... need an adult?"
Super Kami Guru: "I AM AN ADUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUULT!!!!!!"
Adaham
Ellisiantus
Llandy
Phonemelter
Magorian
Soot
Hawk
Viera
Xardob
Pizzaguy
Frisiandude
Ellisiantus
Llandy
Phonemelter
Magorian
Soot
Hawk
Viera
Xardob
Pizzaguy
Frisiandude
Page by Page
Shorthand:
N = Neutral read of the post
W = Gut read this is wolfy
V = Gut read this is villagery
SA = See directly above this
More in depth reads will feature an explanation.
Magorian Aximand:
3, 5, and 7: Read as genuine on the initial read, but I didn't really get what was being implied. In retrospect this looks unnatural. W
13: Vote of Vieira.
16: Explains the non-mystery of the missing capitalization. Well done, hardy boys. Vieira does look nervous here a little. N
21: Appeal, slightly wolfy.
23: N
25: N
29: Banter, N
31: more banter n
34 SA, See Above
35: Smudges Phonemelter, wolfy post
LINK 40: Wolf!Magorian doesn't seem to be mates with Villager!Phone, or Villager!Adaham, or Villager!Frisian. Observe the one interaction which doesn't even feel like a legitimate interaction, his comments toward Hawk. Wolf!Hawk looks like mates with Wolf!Magorian.
44: Picking at nothing, I feel. Wolfy.
46: N
Xardob:
6, 8: N
20: N
26: Unsure what to make of this post. No read.
Adaham:
10: Vote of Sootshade
11: Not getting the reference, but seems fine
38: Reads fine.
47: Pledge not to lynch me for such a silly reason reads villagery and quite familiar to me. I make these sorts of pledges. Rest of the post reads flowy.
Vieira:
12: (Joke) Vote of Phonemelter, with a joke that I didn't get until just now, related to ELP, and PMS, referring to the player list. Humor reads villagery.
15: Reasons seem honest, does seem slightly nervous. N
18: Still reads a little nervous but could be genuinely baffled if that read is wrong. N
28: Reads truthful, upon further familiarity with Vieira's style. N
Hawk:
14: Nothing post, did not get involved after. W
37: Not really getting involved. N
Sootshade:
17: Votes for Frisian for being a lurker in other games.
22: Agrees Vieira seems nervous and explains why, which is villagery. Reads Adaham as solidly innocent, which is also villager-ish.... would like to see reasons, but probably a gut read here.
24: V
27: N
30: Banter, N
33: More of same
FrisianDude:
19: Nothing post n
39: Joke post, n
43: Tone here reads villagery, brainwave seems free of deceit.
45: Excellent point. Villagery.
48: Exchange with Magorian spews Frisian almost 100 percent never wolf buddies with Wolf!Magorian.
Phonemelter:
32: Joke post, humor seems fine. Was not getting the references at game start. Some of it actually funny, not to damn him with faint praise. Particularly like the Whoopin line. V
36 seems fine, n
3, 5, and 7: Read as genuine on the initial read, but I didn't really get what was being implied. In retrospect this looks unnatural. W
13: Vote of Vieira.
16: Explains the non-mystery of the missing capitalization. Well done, hardy boys. Vieira does look nervous here a little. N
21: Appeal, slightly wolfy.
23: N
25: N
29: Banter, N
31: more banter n
34 SA, See Above
35: Smudges Phonemelter, wolfy post
LINK 40: Wolf!Magorian doesn't seem to be mates with Villager!Phone, or Villager!Adaham, or Villager!Frisian. Observe the one interaction which doesn't even feel like a legitimate interaction, his comments toward Hawk. Wolf!Hawk looks like mates with Wolf!Magorian.
44: Picking at nothing, I feel. Wolfy.
46: N
Xardob:
6, 8: N
20: N
26: Unsure what to make of this post. No read.
Adaham:
10: Vote of Sootshade
11: Not getting the reference, but seems fine
38: Reads fine.
47: Pledge not to lynch me for such a silly reason reads villagery and quite familiar to me. I make these sorts of pledges. Rest of the post reads flowy.
Vieira:
12: (Joke) Vote of Phonemelter, with a joke that I didn't get until just now, related to ELP, and PMS, referring to the player list. Humor reads villagery.
15: Reasons seem honest, does seem slightly nervous. N
18: Still reads a little nervous but could be genuinely baffled if that read is wrong. N
28: Reads truthful, upon further familiarity with Vieira's style. N
Hawk:
14: Nothing post, did not get involved after. W
37: Not really getting involved. N
Sootshade:
17: Votes for Frisian for being a lurker in other games.
22: Agrees Vieira seems nervous and explains why, which is villagery. Reads Adaham as solidly innocent, which is also villager-ish.... would like to see reasons, but probably a gut read here.
24: V
27: N
30: Banter, N
33: More of same
FrisianDude:
19: Nothing post n
39: Joke post, n
43: Tone here reads villagery, brainwave seems free of deceit.
45: Excellent point. Villagery.
48: Exchange with Magorian spews Frisian almost 100 percent never wolf buddies with Wolf!Magorian.
Phonemelter:
32: Joke post, humor seems fine. Was not getting the references at game start. Some of it actually funny, not to damn him with faint praise. Particularly like the Whoopin line. V
36 seems fine, n
Page One:
Magorian has eliminated several players of being his wolf buddies. Looks wolfy, several posts cited as to why.
Xardob had a neutral/lousy page One, but there's nothing un-villagery here. Just nothing villagery.
Adaham gets a slight but firm villager lean.
Vieira a little shaky, but I think he's okay here, even villagery.
Hawk uninvolved and wolfy.
Sootshade had a better page One than I initially read. Retrospect and more familiarity with Soot over time encourages this read. Slightly but firmly villagery.
Frisian is not much for content so far this game but looks great page One, and is almost never wolves with Magorian.
Phonemelter alien to me but I see the humor because of more familiarity and picking up on the references. Slight V.
Continuing with Page 2.
