[Werewolf] SMAC: Unity [Game ends!]

[Adaham]

I haven't yet begun to vomit smileys, so I think I'm doing okay.

My young padawan...wait till you're 3/4 games into your new style, and we'll see where you'll end up 

You have ceased almost all wolf hunting ever since I accused you. Other than OMGUS'ing me (which is valid) you've done almost nothing but defend yourself poorly.

To be fair, both of you haven't done a lot outside your private war since you started going at it. Which is exactly the point I was trying to make in one of my previous posts that got conveniently ignored. You posted yourself the dead horse analogy, but I think we're closing in on a dead herd by now. And I think we're not gaining any insight on any of the two anymore. We'd get much clearer reads if you started talking with and about others, rather than continuing your infight, that - I'll admit - I'm starting to skip.

 

[Phonemelter]

@Pizzadude:

The feeling is mutual. 

You seem to think all villagers are going to fall under some umbrella category, but that is completely false - players are going to have widely different reactions to situations, especially being wrongly accused. Nobody wants to get lynched, especially off poor accusations, so the defense shouldn't be a surprise, especially since you keep on bloody bringing it back up. Yes, partly my fault too, but you surely can't have expected someone to let it go.

 

[Magorian Aximand]

I haven't yet begun to vomit smileys, so I think I'm doing okay.

My young padawan...wait till you're 3/4 games into your new style, and we'll see where you'll end up 

We'll have to figure out how to do something fun with that real life dog version of the smiley. I already had it as my avatar for a time.

 

[Askthepizzaguy]

"4. Pizzadude thinks Vieira is not genuine about his curiosity about the OP on Hawk's name, but does not question the fact that Hawek was wondering himself. Yes, Hawk would not use it to draw any conclusions about himself ofr obvious reasons, but if Vieira is not the only person wondering, then maybe it is, in fact, genuine?"

I did not attack Pizzadude. I did not say his suspicion was invalid. All I did was make an observation and ask a harmless question. How he read that into my post, I have no idea.

I already responded to this and underlined the important part.

Here it is again.

"4. Pizzadude thinks Vieira is not genuine about his curiosity about the OP on Hawk's name, but does not question the fact that Hawek was wondering himself. Yes, Hawk would not use it to draw any conclusions about himself ofr obvious reasons, but if Vieira is not the only person wondering, then maybe it is, in fact, genuine?"

This is how wolves undermine villagers. I am a villager. Your attempt to conflate two different players and suggest that a wolf lean on one must equate to a wolf on the other, or that if one is villager, why isn't the other, is a blatantly wolfy thing, and I cannot recall ever seeing a villager do that in an attempt to hunt wolves.

It is a stunningly wolfy thought process. It is undermining, conflating, and removing context. It is whitewashing. It's all deliberate and it's never villagery.

I gave a cited example of an instance where one wolf did it to whitewash my correct read on another wolf in a previous game, it was my first ever game on 2+2 that wasn't a champs game. The wolf's name was bhuber2010. I can quote this stuff.

The cited example is a direct parallel and is not, in any way, irrelevant- it demonstrates that wolves do X, for the stated wolfy reasons, and that you are doing X, for the exact same wolfy reasons from what I can tell, and in my experience of playing since 2008, you'd be the very first villager who did that, or if a villager ever did it, I can't recall it happening.

Mostly because it serves zero villagery purpose, and has no place in a villager's scum hunting game. That would probably be the reason why villagers have never done that across 8 forums and 7 years and 1000s of players with wildly different playstyles.

You be the first and I'll shake your hand for being unusual. I look forward to it.

 

[Magorian Aximand]

 

[Whoopin]

lol

 

[Phonemelter]

As I said, and you seem to be ignoring, it was a comment followed up with a question to explain why you think that way - not an accusation.

 

[Magorian Aximand]

lol

 

[Adaham]

Actually, your insights and all that jazz are nice, but your conversion to pics and gifs as a valid form of contribution is what seals it for me!

Mugorian for MVP!

P.S.: Seems like Pizza and Phoney are made for each other. I don't think they even notice our presence anymore.

 

[FrisianDude]

I have this terrible feeling that this feud is going to end up with either lynched, then the other when the first one turns out innocent. Then the second one is also innocent. And then we all go 'shouldn't have seemed so villainous'.

So really, take a step back. Consider. Keep the other in mind but not necessarily as the subject of your posts all the friggen time.

 

[Askthepizzaguy]

I was merely breaking up my response to Phone's post into 4 parts. Otherwise it would never get read, and looks like it won't anyway.

In any case, looked wolfy, still looks wolfy, diggin his own grave, etc. All the reasons why are posted publicly for those who care and those who don't care.

And I've posted reads, leans, and explanations for literally every player in the game, Adaham. So you're mischaracterizing me when you say I've stopped playing and am only focused on Phone.

That you would think so makes me sad. That means that the response of digging further into a losing argument with me actually still wins for Phonemelter-wolf, simply because other villagers in the game react that way to (horrors!) people posting.

But anyhoo. Enjoy the break from me, thread, I'm skipping town and no internets for a while. Lynch a wolf.

 

[Askthepizzaguy]

P.S.: Seems like Pizza and Phoney are made for each other. I don't think they even notice our presence anymore.

That's just silliness. Me responding to Phone more and highlighting my top wolf read =/= ignoring the rest of the players.

It would be great if reality was inserted into this particular exchange. The eyerolling and whitewashing and misinterpreting of what has gone down by several players is disheartening.

Good grief, people. You don't have to agree with me, but give me more credit than you're giving me.

 

[Phonemelter]

Soot's LoS here seems to play both sides of the argument developing between pizza and Face, with him getting "innocent vibes" from both of the participants (one of which, pizza, I find decidedly suspicious, but that is material for a more substantial post) and generally being noncommittal on anyone being wolfish

Unless I am mistaken, Soot said (afterwards and before this post) "Thus far you are my strongest village read. I have not seen anything dishonest, and your attempts at hunting seem genuine" in response to Pizzadude, so is it really "playing both sides" right now?

 

[Adaham]

C'mon, I've been giving you a ton of credit right off the bat. And I still think you made some valid points. But in my experience of playing this game for many years, I feel that these long exchanges and long cases only blur the lines. Your initial discussion yesterday night I praised first thing in the morning.

You're a confident and experienced player, you should be able to handle it when I say at some point that I think it doesn't add anything anymore. As a matter of fact, you suggested yourself earlier that people should tell you if it becomes redundant.

Also, why you did mention stuff about other players, it is the nature of this forum format that the more recent things stick to us strongest. While you did say some things about Vieira and Eli at some point, I don't think any of them is really under the impression you're on their heels.

So really...don't get me wrong. In a way, I think you're a lot more insightful than most, if not all, of us. But don't take a bit of feedback/advice as a personal attack against you. All I'm saying is, that "you had me at hello", but that you're losing me when you're sounding like a broken record.

My approach is probably a bit more holistic (as strange as that might sound). I'm always interested in the "vibe" in the thread. For most of today, that vibe was awesome, but it got to a point that we became pretty tired. As a matter of fact, we usually don't go that hard, simply because we can't keep up with it. And now I feel we're left a bit hungover. And people that are hungover suffer from memory loss (if you don't believe me, check those movies). In the end, I think Frisiandude summed it up quite nicely, and nobody wants that to happen.

That doesn't mean there isn't merit in your case, but if things are cranked up to 11 constantly, it leaves us deaf.

So, enough wise-crack analogies, I'm not Chingachook or Winnetou...you catch my drift.

 

[Adaham]

Obviously this post was @ pizza

 

[Pharaoh Llandy]

@Melter

It's true. The "Let the OMGUS flow through you" was just a play on him suspecting me and the whole Star Wars avatar thing though and should have been an obvious joke from the  .

He has a star wars avatar? Heh. You are talking to a trekkie



@Frisian 1

Speak of posting, though, I do want to see more from Xardob when he gets home, plus Frislurker and Hawk.

jeeezus lady

Referring to your general tendency to be quiet and lurky, not your behaviour in this game!

Simply put, most of the same people were commenting on the same topics and a fresh perspective from one of you three would have been welcome. I'll be looking at Hawk's post about Soot shortly. Possibly when my whisky worn off.



@Pizzaguy

So when you tried to excuse yourself with drunkenness, I called BS, and I still do.

Ehh, sorry, but this is where I have to play my meta card. Melter gets into silly arguments based on misunderstandings. He does it drunk, he does it sober. And he also posts coherently and sensibly. He does it drunk, he does it sober. Although I think you've been genuinely trying to pry something loose from Melter, I disagree completely with the conclusions you've reached. At best, Melter's drunkenness is a null read, and if you are innocent, then you won't have been the first innocent to have tried to dismiss the validity of his posts due to his alcoholic state.

(thinking ComingWinter in Dwarf Fondle, for those of you who were in it)

Villager reaction to my wrong accusation of you is to laugh at me, give a defense MAYBE, and attack wolves.

Again, I don't agree. I have seen villagers (and been one of them) get into very heated and lengthy quote wars. What you're describing is what you would do, as a villager reaction. Not all of us do that.



@Frisian 2

I'm honestly baffled y'all already seem able to make cases.

Something we have in common. I intend to pick up my game at weekend, but MaHuD did say that he wanted quite a sedate pace for the Day periods, so the way I see it there's still plenty of opportunity for getting some solid suspicions.

Hmm. I think this is why I am more onboard with Adaham's style this time around. In the last game we had very strict deadlines and he seemed to be breezing through the first day without hunting (though I wasn't aware at the time he was the Seer). Knowing that MaHuD is a little more relaxed about the deadlines in this game, I can appreciate Adaham taking more of a back seat and allowing interactions to progress without undue interference.



@Adaham

I'm not Chingachook or Winnetou...

You..... you lied to me   

 

[Vieira151]

First thing I'm going to say is,

That could make sense since he only listed 2 innocents, though he did list 2 players as unaligned, one being himself.

I can't into math. Through re-reading, I notice he has 3 innocents, and 2 unaligned. 



Some points regarding PizzaMan.

First thing I noticed in the OP too. I wonder if there is a reason that Hawk isn't capitalised (shh, Mag).

I do not believe that you believe this. I do not see a reason for you to lie about such a belief as a villager, so therefore you have possibly outed yourself as a wolf.

I believe what, that there is a reason? There is clearly not - people pointed out previous spelling mistakes and the OP has been fixed since.

You state:

#78 is slightly wolfy. Reply #81 is much more solidly wolfy.

without clarifying. What makes these posts wolfy to you?

Also regarding that same post (though not the content in the quote), what do you mean when you say that a post is "pure"? Regarding your Adaham segment.

Rather than waiting for more development / interactions

I assume the only way the wolves will seem so wolfy I can convince others they are, is to press them and corner them and ask them questions until their answers hang them.

Isn't this is the way witches were hunted in real life. I don't recall many innocent women being discovered through that method...

4. What I see as strange, from you, is the kinf od confidence you have. Might just be the way you play, but my gut read of it is that you might have some knowledge that I don't, aka knowledge that a wolf might have. Hard to be specific because a) I am not in the proepr state to go back and read thingd carefully and b) do not have the motivation to, but the kind of consifdence I am seeing is not villagery.

You might have been drunk, but this is a horrible argument. Maybe you have changed your opinion since this (and I have not seen the post as of where I am in the thread) or maybe you have not, but it's clear Pizza is someone who plays in a confident, to the point manner. You can see it here, and you can see it in the Champions Game that Adaham was in (if you read along). Clutching at straws.

Magorian: I don't like Mag's interpretation of Neoxardobism, if that's what caused him to poke at Vieira's behaviour and then completely abandon it, and then later pop into the Pizza/Face argument to offer something of no real weight to the discussion. In fact, where the latter went slightly beyond stating the obvious, I feel like it sabotaged Pizza's questioning of Face if anything. If I was prone to making rushed conclusions (totally not the case, I might add ) I might say that this is a possible packmate interaction between Mag and Face. Beyond that, I just don't like the way he seems to be using his style to excuse floating past any discussion.

While I don't think Face and Mags are packmates, I agree with the majority of points made by Soot here. Mags mentioned that Pizza seems to be a confidence guy (something I agree on and mentioned above), but Mags then states he doesn't know what to make of it. I don't think I've ever seen Mags make a post stating that he is unsure, so it read wolfy to me. It's vaguely meta, but in the context it feels wolfy too - he made a post explaining Pizzas playstyle, but not offering much substance otherwise.

As to the bolded, I do agree partially. Partially because Soot himself wandered in and picked up Mags case, and while I feel that Soot was suspicious in his actions, it felt weird seeing Magorian letting someone else build on top of his foundations.



Quick ad break: 22 new replies! Holy ****. 

@Vieira

We don't need to start with a joke vote, do we?

You should know by now that a joke vote isn't required.

I should? Last time I started a game (rather than replacemelted) I'm fairly sure we still had a forced joke vote. Maybe I'm misremembering. 

Fris is looking okay so far.

If by okay you mean nondescript, then I agree.

I don't think we even have anything from him regarding his thoughts on players?



I think that is the end of Page 11. I'll end my read here, make some foods, then I'll eat the foods. Then I'll read the rest of the thread, see what I can find.

 

[Phonemelter]

The point about "confidence" was more of a gut reason. There is nothing wrong with being confident, but there is a certain kind of confidence that I have a problem with. See Soot last game on Day 1, the past two times Whoopin has played a wolf, etc. It is hard to explain, but a vibe I feel is important.

 

[Adaham]

Well Phoney, I, for one, am perfectly willing to accept your gut reasoning about the confidence. Doesn't mean I agree with it, but given the current stage of the game, I think it's perfectly valid. Let's make a deal...I accept your "confidence based suspicion", and you live with the fact I suspect you because the vibe of your joke LoS felt off, ok?

 

[Adaham]

Oh, and just to give you guys a heads up...today was a bit of an intense day for WW for me. Pizza is intense and I like it to an extend, but I feel dirty for having wasted waaaaay too much time here. I have some work to tend to tomorrow and will cut down to a more regular level of contribution.