[Werewolf] SMAC: Unity [Game ends!]

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First reply is to Twinks. I'll post this then go back and respond to Llandy and Adaham.

Stifling Discussion

You keep insisting that you couldn't have cut short discussion that didn't exist, but the whole point is that you can't know what posts may have come over the course of that week and your vote was completely unnecessary at that time. As I've explained, it would be very easy to explain who you will vote for without voting, explain why you think what you do without voting, basically do exactly what you did without ending the day so that nobody has any chance to try anything or contribute anything more or make a mistake that could change the course of the game. Things moving slowly is not an excuse for guaranteeing that nothing else can happen. The only reason anyone would actually think this is a good thing is if they were a wolf ? who saw a chance to hammer a key innocent. One of the last two. As you may have noticed, some of us are leading rather busy lives and have to contribute less than normal. I won't let you hide behind that as if it mattered for your behavior.

My case against Pizza

The understandable fact that you didn't want to read the whole game is not an excuse for you to pretend it doesn't exist. I've been pushing for pizza since day one. Voting for the person I've built a large case for without repeating myself ad nauseum is not the same as making no case at all. Hence the eye roll. And again, this ties into the busy life thing...

Not voting yet

We're at lynch or lose. With four players I can't give a wolf the opportunity to bomb vote by voting early outright, but I could contribute to the risk. In fact, thanks to the two votes made, Llandy is now a confirmed innocent (not that there was much doubt) and I can know that you and Adaham are the only two options.

My current arguments

You attempted to claim that my comment to Adaham didn't raise any actual points, but that's plainly false. Process of elimination is about as effective as any hunting method, especially in the endgame. The fact is that every player except you has played an important role in lynching a wolf. That is important.

I'll add another one here. It should be telling that both of vote votes, both days, have been for the only other player who had a reasonable chance of being lynched that day other than you. You've not just followed public opinion, you've voted purely for survival.

Aaaaand I'm falling asleep... Let's see what else I can get done here.
 
Adaham's reasoning makes me feel like I made Xardob feel earlier this game.  :lol: It's not bad reasoning, but it's completely wrong. I'll make a few appeals. First, i would have sacrificed both pack mates, not just Soot. And that comes with highlighting the problems with Kronic's play that led to his death. I'm cold, but both pack mates in the first two days? Insane. Second, Twinks may be the dumb wolf, but Vieira was not. And he wasn't just a lurker, his early contributions were solid. Not to mention his later uncertainty was endearing. Had Twinks played the whole game you may have a point, but he didn't. Lastly, you said you'd still consider this a good game even if you were wrong. Does that stand even if you make the decision that loses the game when all the evidence is against you? :razz:

Phone dying. Trying for Llandy reply...
 
I didn't counter Pizza/Soot because of momentum and sanity. By momentum I mean that I didn't feel like they'd get any real support. They were alone. There was no need to kill a dead bandwagon. That's how it felt to me. By sanity I mean that I had little interest in attempting to get Pizza to actually read an argument again. Reading the Phone mess and going through it myself was enough.

Sleep!
 
Magorian Aximand 说:
Adaham's reasoning makes me feel like I made Xardob feel earlier this game.  :lol: It's not bad reasoning, but it's completely wrong. I'll make a few appeals. First, i would have sacrificed both pack mates, not just Soot. And that comes with highlighting the problems with Kronic's play that led to his death. I'm cold, but both pack mates in the first two days? Insane. Second, Twinks may be the dumb wolf, but Vieira was not. And he wasn't just a lurker, his early contributions were solid. Not to mention his later uncertainty was endearing. Had Twinks played the whole game you may have a point, but he didn't. Lastly, you said you'd still consider this a good game even if you were wrong. Does that stand even if you make the decision that loses the game when all the evidence is against you? :razz:
Evidence-shmevidence.

If anything, this manipulative post only confirmed me in my decision.

I understand your busy life bit, though. It's kinda similar here, which is why I won't go into detail about what's wrong with this post. I think everybody can see it.
 
Right. I have some wine (in front of me.... and also inside me) and food is impending, so it's time to do some stuff.

Let me start by saying...

Vote Twinkle

Why?

In his first post, Eli says that Soot and Mag are packies. This, I believe, is setting up one packmate to be bussed whilst tying him in with an innocent, or potentially setting up an innocent to be lynched. Would a wolf, in his or her first post, set up two packmates to be bussed? I don't think so. It would be stupid.

In his post here, Vieira lists the two known wolves, Soot and Eli, as most suspicious. But later in Day 1 he says he will only lynch Eli if me, Magorian and Melter vote him first. And on Day 2, Vieira apparently still thinks Soot is scummy, but then supports Soot in an Adaham/Llandy pack case for reasons which were roughly "I want to see where this goes" or something. Is that the behaviour of somebody who really wants to vote his top two suspects? I don't think so. It looks like reluctant voting of Eli, and then tentative support of Soot. Whilst Vieira did support my Soot case on Day 1, I think he saw Eli as the preferable packmate to lose.

Magorian has contributed to the lynch of two wolves. That means that, if a wolf, he bussed both packmates. Vieira contributed to the lynch of Eli on Day 1, but for the wolves I suspect that Eli was dead weight and axing him was no loss. Just look at how Soot behaved towards him for an example of that.

Twinkle ended the day early yesterday. His reasons were weak and inexcusable. Magorian could have attempted to defend Adaham/Llandy against crazy Pizza arguments; I believe that this is how villagers build a consensus and trust, and had he done so I would have less of a hard time trusting him right now. But whilst he didn't speak out against Pizza, he didn't support him either. The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. Pizza might not have been evil, but Soot certainly was. I hope that if Magorian is innocent, he remembers that for the future.

FrisianDude, our Seer, said that Magorian is not a wolf. I have tried to think about why he would say this, when he only had 1 night of scanning available. The only reason I can come up with, is the WIFOM one that he realised he looked too much like a Seer and decided to "clear" another player (even if they weren't cleared) in the hopes of making it look like he wasn't a Seer because no standard Seer would have known 2 confirmed innocents at that point. But it's pure speculation on my part. I've tried to find what else Frisian said about Mag but his posts are sporadic, and what I find is mostly along the lines of "eh, neutral until he outright declares Mag innocent. So I'm going to trust to our Seer on this one, and hope that he really did scan Mag, and wasn't just bull****ting to try and hide his role.

I think there was more I had to say but my food is ready so if I remember the things I was thinking earlier I'll post them. If not... I think I've done my best.
 
Xardob 说:
If this game ends in a deadlock, I'm going to personally murder all four of you.

How can the game end in a deadline?

We lynch the wolf today, we win.

We lynch an innocent today, wolves probably win.

We have a no-lynch today and we're back to LoL tomorrow.

Or am I missing something?
 
Well, if Adaham is a wolf, this vote loses the game. But I'm pretty sure that's not the case so here it goes.

Vote: Twinks

Hammy, give that post from Llandy a close read. If you can't take my ideas seriously, maybe Llandy will provide a few that resonate with you.
 
And yes Llandy, you're right. A deadlock today doesn't mean the game is deadlocked. The only way that happens is if nobody dies at night either.
 
Magorian Aximand 说:
Hammy, give that post from Llandy a close read. If you can't take my ideas seriously, maybe Llandy will provide a few that resonate with you.
It's not that I don't take your ideas seriously, it's rather that I take all of your stuff very seriously and that's why I just can't trust you. Logical, isn't it?

~ Adaham, who will unvote and vote Twinkle now, because I srsly don't have the energy anymore to drag this out.
 
Dammit, this should have been limegreen:

Adaham 说:
~ Adaham, who will unvote and vote Twinkle now, because I srsly don't have the energy anymore to drag this out.
 
Lol! Well, *****es, we lost. :razz: Congrats, Mag, on your wolf victory.

Good game, although I wasn't too into it.

~Twinkle, who was and is an innocent
 
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