[Werewolf] Crusade on Castle Mengelberg, (Werewolves Win!)

[Adaham]

Sorry to hear you've had a hard time recently, hope things get better for you soon, whatever they may be.

I understand also what you say about Cal's choice from your point of view and also about CW's last comment. It's not like wolves haven't done these kind of comments in the end, but I also think it's worrysome.

In the end, even if this is not how you play this game, I still think that the lynch of CW gives us more information than a lynch of me. Because it's been painstakingly clear, that once I turn out to be innocent, the consensus will be I brought it upon myself. Even if that is true, it leaves you with little to discuss tomorrow. The whole change to CW towards the end might make some of us rethink their stances tomorrow, no matter in which direction.

And believe me, I know the feeling that "my logic makes sense to me, it just doesn't really seem to make sense to anybody else". It's more or less a feeling I'm having all the time this game. 

 

[Pharaoh Llandy]

Thanks.

I suppose logic is very subjected. Now I hope Magorian posts soon otherwise we miss hearing his final thoughts before ejnomad posts CW's death scene.

 

[Pharaoh Llandy]

"Subjective"

 

[Adaham]

To be honest, I wasn't under the impression Magorian was planning to post any final thoughts. Which strikes me as a bit odd. He usually likes posting a lot, so his quietness is unsettling.

 

[CryoNomad]

So is this turning into one of the few games abandoned by the host? 

No. It just means a work emergency and I'm not at home to finish this thread up. 



And so the Crusaders spent another day searching the castle finding many odd and old objects from past residences (such as some ninja stars embedded in a wall from some past fight) in the castle but alas no sign of our dear enemy Ativan the Great. As they concluded the day the the group turned upon the local blacksmith turned crusader ComingWinter and sentenced her to die. Cornered and outnumbered she fell upon her Ingelrii sword rather than be lynched by this crazy and mistaken mob of desperate killers. Saddened and demoralized by making an innocent kill herself this band of crusaders went to bed without even bothering to eat suddenly now not feeling up to it, except for two of those crusaders and tonight they would feast"

• ComingWinter - Villager - has killed herself before you bastards could!

Status: Night 3: Deadline is October 27th at 10:00AM EST

 

[CryoNomad]

The Crusaders awoke to find their truest crusader had been slain in the night. His body pulled apart and left in various places around his sleeping quarters. An obvious revenge for the death of their pack leader.

"Well ladies and gentlemen, we know this is the last day if we don't get it right this time" said Eric Hammer

"let's kill a wolf today or god help us all"

• Ativan - Villager - has been killed!

Status: Day 4: Deadline is November 5th at 11:59PM EST

 

[Phonemelter]

On my phone so I can't do much right now, but I want to come out and immediately say that PilgrMagorian is going to be our best bet for a wolf right now. My judgment has been the worst its ever been this game, but passing on Xadob's death after he came out in saying he had a "hunch (or two)" that Pilgrim is a wolf would be insane. If the wolves had any idea he was the seer, they would basically have to lunch him, and if he was wrong in his "hunch" on Pilgrim, the wolves wouldn't care because they'd know he was just "bluffing."

 

[Pharaoh Llandy]

Frankly, I don't have a response at the moment because I didn't expect to still be alive today. Re-reading the whole of Day 3 kinda seemed an exercise in futility at the time. So, I'll take tonight and tomorrow night to re-read, and put some rambles together.

I will say, however, that my opinion of Adaham pretty much hasn't changed at all. Only now, I think he's a much, much smarter player than I ever even guessed. Probably unsurprisingly, I think if we don't lynch Adaham today then we've lost the game and pretty much deserve to be wolf-kibble.

But I need to re-read to try and clear up some ambiguity I was feeling towards the end of Day 3. Right now I'm finding it really, really hard to reconcile Vieira/Magorian as being "the same person" (and "the same person" as Pilgrim, no less) and how that all fits in to everything else. Hopefully I'll have something up by tomorrow night.

My judgment has been the worst its ever been this game, but passing on Xadob's death after he came out in saying he had a "hunch (or two)" that Pilgrim is a wolf would be insane.

I think we should definitely look at Xardob's suspicions. And Soot's suspicions. And Ativan's suspicions. Because pinning a lynch vote on a dead guy's suspicions is a pretty ****ty thing to do if you're going to completely pass up on two OTHER dead guys' suspicions. You might be willing to lynch somebody on the strength of one of Xardob's mysterious hunches, but I'm not. Three hunches together, perhaps. But I'd rather go off my own intuition.

If the wolves had any idea he was the seer, they would basically have to lunch him

I too was totally going to invite Xardob out for lunch, too. I had this whole picnic in the park thing planned. There were sandwiches cut into triangles (with the crusts still on!) and freshly sliced apples, and delicious tortilla chips with a guacamole dip. Alas, it wasn't to be

 

[Phonemelter]

Eh? I'm not exactly sure what looking at Soot's suspicions would do. Yeah, looking at what dead guys have said can be useful, but Xardob is different since his "hunch (or two)" statement could have been a subtle roleclaim (as discussed on Day 3), which would scare the wolves into lunging Xardob if he was correct.

 

[Phonemelter]

My autocorrect really hates "lynching."

 

[Magorian Aximand]

Also on my phone here, so I'm limited, but basing your entire view of the game on the chance that the wolves might have had a specific thought about a hunch from a player who historically is cryptic and goes on gut, as though this were an exhaustive account of the possible reasons to kill Xardob, is rather foolish.

Put that paltry, and exclusively WIFOM, evidence next to the veritable mountain that is your defense of Sheep, attempts to bury Sheep's quote mining, attempts to discredit Calodine (and Ativan? Or was it just Adaham who did that. Gotta read back), and the rather large amount of sense you and Adaham make as a pack given your positions and voting history, and I think our choices here are rather clear.



The long night gave me the time to get all caught up, thankfully. I should have an up to date LoS posted shortly. I'll be rather this week, but I'll do my best to stay active from my phone.

 

[Magorian Aximand]

*rather busy this week

 

[Pharaoh Llandy]

Eh? I'm not exactly sure what looking at Soot's suspicions would do. Yeah, looking at what dead guys have said can be useful, but Xardob is different since his "hunch (or two)" statement could have been a subtle roleclaim (as discussed on Day 3), which would scare the wolves into lunging Xardob if he was correct.

I think you're really grasping at straws there. I've never played Werewolf with Xardob before, but I've played Resistance, and I had him pegged as a smart player. If he's going to say something vague like "I have a hunch" then he's probably going to assume that his "hey guise I has a hunch!" post is going to attract wolf attention.

It would therefore be the smartest thing IN THE WORLD for him to tell us exactly what that hunch is, to 1) give us some information to go on if he suspected he might die, 2) make his death MUCH less likely because hey, he just pointed out some AMAZING thing which proves that Pilgrim is a wolf!

For the record, I thought Pilgrim was suspicious as hell on that Day and would have gladly heard Xardob out (even though I wouldn't have voted to lynch Pilgrim rather than Adaham because I thought and STILL THINK that it's the smart thing to do), but unfortunately Xardob either didn't have the foresight to leave us with any information at all (strange, and I believe unlikely) so I'm more inclined to believe Xardob was simply clutching at straws. His blasé "I'm not going to waste my time explaining my hunch if people are just going to keep shouting 'Sheet Sheep'" post was shortsighted and irresponsible if he DID have a genuine hunch, because we sure could have used that now.

If you want some ACTUAL reason to be suspicious of Pilgrim/Vieira/Magorian, then go take a look at the whole of Pilgrim's play during Day 1 and Day 2. Note his behaviour and antagonistic attitude. That, at least, is something solid to go on. Rather than "hey, Xardob might have been lynched because he said this thing which he didn't see fit to expand on!"

 

[Phonemelter]

Also on my phone here, so I'm limited, but basing your entire view of the game on the chance that the wolves might have had a specific thought about a hunch from a player who historically is cryptic and goes on gut, as though this were an exhaustive account of the possible reasons to kill Xardob, is rather foolish.

The wolves could have killed Avian to put suspicion on Adaham, myself, or Xardob on Day 2. They could have even done the same with Cado. Or CW. But who did they go with? Xardob. Why go for a guy who people thought was suspicious? From the perspective of a wolf it wouldn't make too much sense, unless they assumed that quote was a subtle hint at a seer roleclaim (which Cado seemed to pick up on, so it doesn't seem unreasonable anyone else could have).

Put that paltry, and exclusively WIFOM, evidence next to the veritable mountain that is your defense of Sheep, attempts to bury Sheep's quote mining, attempts to discredit Calodine (and Ativan? Or was it just Adaham who did that. Gotta read back), and the rather large amount of sense you and Adaham make as a pack given your positions and voting history, and I think our choices here are rather clear.

1. Didn't try to bury Sheep's quote mining. As mentioned, even at that point I was still suspicious of him for other reasons and would have voted for him had we had the opportunity to get more people to his side.

2. Uh, I was trying to discredit Cado because I was suspicious of things he said and isn't that the whole point of Werewolf? We don't even know if Cado is innocent or not, so I don't see why that would be problematic.

3. I did vote for Avian, but that was a different scenario (not a discrediting one). Have you even read any of that from Day 2? If you are still basing your suspicions off Day 1, you clearly are not caring much about good wolf hunting.

4. I know it is a moot point, but I'm not a dumb **** wolf who would play like this if Adaham was my packie. You should know better.

It would therefore be the smartest thing IN THE WORLD for him to tell us exactly what that hunch is, to 1) give us some information to go on if he suspected he might die, 2) make his death MUCH less likely because hey, he just pointed out some AMAZING thing which proves that Pilgrim is a wolf!

A claim on Day 2 is risky though; it wouldn't have been a great idea for him to claim if he was a seer, especially since he couldn't know if there was an angel to protect him the next night.

If you want some ACTUAL reason to be suspicious of Pilgrim/Vieira/Magorian, then go take a look at the whole of Pilgrim's play during Day 1 and Day 2. Note his behaviour and antagonistic attitude. That, at least, is something solid to go on. Rather than "hey, Xardob might have been lynched because he said this thing which he didn't see fit to expand on!"

Geebus, did you pay attention to anything I ever said about Pilgrim? I was suspicious of him all game before being replaced.

 

[Magorian Aximand]

I'm waiting to get back to a computer to type my LoS, but I do want to make it clear what the nature of that post will be:

Vote: Nipplemelter

 

[Pharaoh Llandy]

1. Didn't try to bury Sheep's quote mining. As mentioned, even at that point I was still suspicious of him for other reasons and would have voted for him had we had the opportunity to get more people to his side.

Uh, actually. You did try to bury Sheep's quote mining. On Day 1 you did it with a massive and pointless quote war with Calodine. And on Day 2 you had a whole run of pages dedicated to your theory that either Adaham or Ativan is a wolf and HEY WOULDN'T IT BE GREAT IF WE LYNCHED ATIVAN. This at the point where Sheep had three votes on him. Three. Out of five needed! There was plenty of opportunity for getting more people to his side.

The fact is, you had the opportunity all Day to vote for Sheep. And yet you did everything except vote for Sheep until it looked like we'd be faced with a no-lynch. And you did it without even a single second to spare.

Will respond to the stuff you aimed at me later, currently trying to re-read Day 3 with fresh eyes.

 

[Phonemelter]

Magorian, when it only takes three to lynch, voting this early is a little risky, don't you think?

Uh, actually. You did try to bury Sheep's quote mining. On Day 1 you did it with a massive and pointless quote war with Calodine. And on Day 2 you had a whole run of pages dedicated to your theory that either Adaham or Ativan is a wolf and HEY WOULDN'T IT BE GREAT IF WE LYNCHED ATIVAN. This at the point where Sheep had three votes on him. Three. Out of five needed! There was plenty of opportunity for getting more people to his side.

The quote war had nothing to do with burying Sheep's quote mining. Why are you suddenly agreeing with Magorian now? If you remember, I made a case against Sheep to try and convince Xardob to potentially vote for him on Day 2 before I went crazy with the Avian argument. Sorry for trying to "stick to my guns" and going for someone else, miss "I'm only going to vote for Adaham every day and not change my mind." There was apparently going to be no convincing you to got for Sheep until you actually did.


For reference, here are my previous thoughts specifically on Pilgrim:

Some more current suspect thoughts:

1. Suspicious Pilgrim - Bad suggestion of wanting quicker nights. Repeats what has already been said without adding to it. Ignores accusations against him. Trying to hide in the shadows while CW takes the heat much?

• Suspicious Pilgrim - Goes after the easiest target right after himself (aka Llandy) and dismisses all arguments previously against him because they are "asinine." He also quotes me for some reason in reference to something I was not even commenting on. Obviously going after Llandy with too much aggression for my tastes on a player that is clearly new to the game. Yeah, I get that we can't go easy on the newbies, but my god this is such a "look at me contribute while not contributing much at all" post. You think Llandy is "shady as ****?" YOU are shady as ****. Additionally, he calls Llandy out for being under the radar and non-committal... even though he has been even more under the radar and even more non-committal. Why go through all that trouble to call her out and ends it with "I don't want to lynch the new kid" and places no vote.

• Suspicious Pilgrim's post here and his recovery also makes me feel uneasy (though he has made me feel that way all game). His reluctance to vote for Tuckles could be that of an innocent who honestly doesn't feel like Tuckles was a wolf, but he did make an analysis of Tuckles earlier on that would suggest otherwise. Unwilling to put the nail in the coffin during crunch time and nearly causing a no-lynch (which Soot would have prevented, but that doesn't really matter) under those circumstances makes me think Pilgrim is a wolf who didn't want to have any blood on his hands knowing Tuckles would come out innocent.

Pilgrim: Every time he posts he says he is going to post more, but never does. Wonderful. Ironically, he thinks Cado's vote on Sheep is rash and hurrying though the day. Didn't someone say on Day 1 that they wanted shorter days? Who could that have been? The only post he has today isn't the worst, but he doesn't take much of a position on anyone, much like what he did on Day 1. His vote at the end of the previous day is interesting because, combined with his unwillingness to take a stance on anything, it looks as if he is trying to play a wolf that is trying to blend in by not being overly controversial or polarizing to the village. Aside from all that, I've said other things about him, but these are the most recent developments.

Pilgrim/Vieira is also interesting, especially since Pilgrim was never fond of the idea of lynching Sheep. Yeah, Vieira went that way in the end, but there was too much pressure to go that way and, as I'm being accused of, it is better for "brownie points" since he is the new guy. He's been the most ambivalent of the group in his suspicions of people, which could point at wolf trying to float along, which would also explain why he was worried about switching to Tuckles: he knew an innocent was going to be lynched and didn't want to be blamed for it.

 

[Magorian Aximand]

I would only worry if I had doubts. I can't really say that I do. The case on you is about as strong as any I've ever made. And I can't wait to get it all on paper.

And I've already explained how maintaining suspicion of a player, and conveniently voting elsewhere, is not a point in your favor...

 

[Phonemelter]

I would only worry if I had doubts. I can't really say that I do. The case on you is about as strong as any I've ever made.

 

[Taimat396]

Psst, if you think Maggie is a wolf, it doesn't matter if he votes, they need an innocent for the WOOF WOOF train

Also unfortunately wolfdudes did the smart thing and my BRILLIANT MISDIRECTION failed

Also I don't think Nipple/Maggie are a pack. And I don't think Llandy is a wolf.

Do you guys know what this means? I hope you guys know what this means. Because that means there is one person left who is definitely a wolf unless I'm really really bad. Adaham, dearest. It's been fun, but now you gotta die. For the greater good and all.


P.S. Since this is Ativan's castle and he's dead now, I call dibs.