[Werewolf: Archives] Werewolf: The Tower of Games. WEREWOLVES WIN.

[Revilo]

Thanks Mod, hopefully this game can get a bit of a rhythm instead of the stop-start it seems to have fallen to.

That's a nice LoS Adaham, and whilst I can't reply fully right now (revising for chemistry A level mock tomorrow), I'm going to re read the past few pages, including Mags forthcoming post, and draw up some conclusions that I'll post later.

In-post edit: SootShades post also.

 

[Nodscouter]

12. Nodscouter - So, here we go, Ejnomads favourite target. His hesitance to commit himself was indeed striking, especially when compared to the other game (Innocent Inn), where he was much more open on the first day. But like with many new players, I´m getting the feeling that it´s very easy to corner him and turn anything he says into whatever suits the case. As a result, he gets even more quiet and hopes the storm passes by. That could all be considered very scummy, but it could be also a nice scapegoat for scum.

Mostly due to the fact that in Innocent inn people twisted my arguments ALOT. I kinda got scared away by that fact.

 

[Revilo]

Well come out and defend yourself then. By getting scared away from posting or elaborating on your arguements you're only giving the wolves more room to twist and change your words to suit their needs and turn people against you. It's potentially a vicious circle, and one that you need to break in order to help out the village.

 

[Nodscouter]

I have defended myself...

 

[Magorian Aximand]

****ty attack? Yeah, mine tend to be, since I never manage to convince anyone of even the most obvious villains. Noting continuously I'm not certain? Wait, what, when? Seriously, the only time I said something like that was when Adaham noted how I seemed too certain of my case. I admitted that it had quite a bit to do with my gut, which is simply a fact. It doesn't change for **** that I'm absolutely certain that AWdeV is villain.

I did not say that you claim that you're not certain. I was talking about the alternative to looking confident in an attack. I find a purposeful statement of doubt added to a serious attack to be more wolfish than confidently attacking. The doubt is assumed, and does not need to be stated. Doing so is more suspicious in my eyes, because it is an attempt to look like a villager, and gives wolves an "out" when their target is proved innocent.

If smileys were not a part of your point, why exactly did you bring them up as an example to demonstrate your point?

Your example with Vulkan is a poor one. The previous game, the consensus was that Vulkan was far less confident than the game before. This feels to me like a misrepresentation of what happened.

What is funny about this is just how easily your reasoning can be turned against you. Extreme confidence and making fantastical points out of virtually nothing? You've got it too. You say that you're absolutely certain that AWdeV is a villain. Confidence? Check. Your reason for this assertion? He appears too confident. Inflated argument? Check. If you present this as a valid line of reasoning for absolute certainty, I should be absolutely certain that you are a villain. If you do not want to admit to being a villain, you have to drop this reasoning.

Comments on Adaham's LoS coming soon. Oh, and a lecture for Nodscouter.

 

[Troll]

I can't believe you again misunderstood quite much all I said.

I'll try to answer it tomorrow, or maybe today if I have time, but for now I'll have to leave it.

 

[Adaham]

What he tried to do wasn't just an attempt to create pressure make Ejnomad show reactions that might be judged as wolfish. He's trying to twist Ejnomad's reactions to look wolfish. Exactly what Vulkan did to fool everyone to lynch Verbeek in the Siege of Bethaa game. His choice of target wasn't the best one, but one thing about this tactic he's trying that the target doesn't exactly need to show anything suspicious, as long as he can make it look like it.

As you say yourself, his choice of target didn´t add up. Vulkan trying to lynch Verbeek for some noobish mistakes is very different from attacking one of the two most experienced and aggressive players in the game. Why should AWdeV be interested in calling a ****-storm upon himself if he´s a villain? And he could very well expect that his confident (or faked, however you put it) attack would get a strong reaction.

I don´t know if we´re all misunderstanding you, because in the end you are appealing to a lot of meta-gaming emotions. You were right about Vulkan, hence you must be right again. This is circular logic that doesn´t work in reality. Either you are deceiving yourself, or trying to deceive us.

---

Mostly due to the fact that in Innocent inn people twisted my arguments ALOT. I kinda got scared away by that fact.

That´s the nature of this game, especially bearing in mind there´s always bad guys out there that will take any opportunity to get rid of easy prey (beginners).

---

Glad this thread is back alive and kicking! 

 

[Revilo]

I honestly did forget. I've been caught up in alot of schoolwork lately so it didn't strike me until yesterday(or the day before that, I don't feel like checking that up right now) that the Werewolf game had really started. And I'm not quite sure that I understand what you mean by ''seemingly ecstatic reaction'', would you kindly elaborate on this?

And I actually believe it's a bit early for serious votes, I tend to wait a bit longer before making any real decision.  Frankly so far, I'm leaning towards Ejnomad right now as he seems a bit jumpy according to me, but I won't make any decisions until I've seen more of this discuission.

I myself, as well as many others such as Adaham and Ejnomad have been busy with exams and work and other such important things, and yet we've still found time to post. I have said this before though, so I won't go further.

I think the posts in the sign-up thread is slightly irrelevant, especially as my so-called skills were getting lynched first despite being innocent and also because that was before us getting the roles. I am however quite excited as this is only my second game and I find these games great fun.

Personally, I think enjomads point aren't completely valid sometimes. For example his ''only scum sees things in black & white'' seems a bit off and
he seems to bring up points that are only semantics really. For now, that'll be a Vote: ejnomad07 but that's probably subject to change.


Also, I will not be able to post much today and tomorrow as I have my karate camp which is about 16 hours of training, excluding have to drive there and back. Just thought I should warn you.

I'd like to see your reasoning for saying that Ejnomads posts are only semantics. You've made an accusation, now back it up with why. Make a point, evidence it then explain is what I was always taught at school. I find it applies fairly well here too.

You have some explaining to do.
First, you're overly resistant to helping the town and contributing.

How exactly? Because I vote on you I am not contributing and resistant to helping?

Second, when voted for and forced under pressure by others disliking your post history you start our first bandwagon vote containing some vague and obscure point to justify it.

1 person, one, single, person, voted for me before you did. One is far from a lynch, so I wasn't exactly under much pressure. I replied because he asked me to reply, and therefore I am a wolf?

Thirdly, I defend myself to what you said and you've so far ignored it.

I put my vote on you to see how you would react. Honestly, you still seem quite jumpy to me and my vote shall remain on you. The other points I take back, but that point still stands.

Finally, we are back to you playing I can't help the town anymore.

Wait what?

Out of those three posts, only the last one strikes me as even attempting some sort of defence of your actions, and then even that is shaky at best - 'You still seem quite jumpy' just isn't enough information to be an adequate reason. The others are just statements as to why you haven't been posting as much, or why you can't contribute anything useful to the village.

You've got to understand, this isn't an attack on you - it's just frustrating seeing such little input when it could really be useful, and then these weak excuses when you attempt to justify yourself top it all off.

Note: This isn't my response to Adahams LoS, I just felt the need to post this.

 

[Revilo]

Right, here's a quick LoS as promised to try and keep the momentum going.

1. Magorian - I'm getting the feeling that Magorian is more likely to be pro-village than pro-choice. However, as Adaham correctly said, this would make him particularly difficult to pin down as either wolf or villager. I'm going with my gut on this one, yet that's not to say I'll be ignoring him, nor pointing out anything I see as wolfish. I'd like to see a clear post about his main suspicions most of all, to know where he stands, especially since everything so far seems reactive, rather than proactively searching out and gaining information on the wolves.

2. Sootshade - Seems...angry. Mainly at what he claims as not being able to get his point across clearly, yet I reckon I've followed his points fairly well and it still seems almost petty that using smileys and being confident mean you are a wolf. Hell, he flat out accused AWdeV of being a wolf on page 6 based soley on that premise, and again on page 8,. I'm not sure about others, but it seems to me he's made a case and then backed it up by gut feeling and previous game experience and then is getting frustrated when people don't follow his reasoning. Perhaps that's because that (admittedly with some points from this thread, but again with things such as confidence) that reasoning isn't particularly strong? I can't help but get a bad feeling from his posts.

4. Regendur - Has fallen off the face of the earth. Can't really say anything until he either posts or is replaced.

5. Vadermath - See above.

6. AWdeV - It seems he's drawn attention to himself early on, yet I can't help but feel he doesn't deserve the negative connotation that others have labelled him with. He called out Ejnomads aggressive posting and is then himself called out for being confident in his posts towards Ejnomad. Seems to have got himself in a partial crossfire between Ej and Soot, but hasn't really shown any signs of being under that much pressure - that suggests to me he is confident in what he's posting (and not just faking it).

7. Ejnomad - My first impression was essentially the same as AWdeVs - that he was aggressive and over zealous with his posts but now I'm not so sure about his stance. He seems to be in favour of the village; calling out suspicious behaviour and pressure voting and yet there's always the possibility he's a wolf trying to lead the game early on. He certainly has the capacity intelligence and posting ability wise, but my gut says to be careful, if nothing else. He's an experienced player either way and should be treated as such.

8. Kronic - I have no strong feelings either way. His larger post redeemed him for his absence somewhat, and yet it didn't particularly reveal any of his suspicions, other than to say that he's not prepared to throw casual votes around. Whilst that could be careful, deliberate voting in favour of the village, it could also be a ploy to wait until the opportune moment to force a lynch or start a bandwagon. I can't tell for sure yet, as I'd like to see more posts before I can make a more quantifiable decision.

9. Adaham - Is keen to keep the game flowing and the conversation progressing which in itself is no bad thing - I myself feel the same way. I find myself agreeing with many of his points, but I've taken to reading his posts over to double check. He's always an influential figure in a WW game, and it's just possible he could use this to try to string along players although thus far I can't see any sign of that sort of behaviour. I have noticed until recently however, that he has been more concerned with getting all the players into the game rather than addressing those already here. This is changing though, possibly due to the production of his LoS.

10. Dryvus - Well, apart from a few sparse posts I don't really have much to go on with him. Seems to have become discouraged as the game progressed, or pehaps he is simply preoccupied - I can't tell.

11. MaHuD - Cryptic, to say the least. Disappointingly, he has yet to produce a large post of his suspicions so I can't see how he is treating the game. Suffice to say, he strikes me as wolfy though; dropping in to say a few words, claiming he has his suspicions and seemingly inside knowledge, and then vanishing again just as quickly. This does seem like his play style (going from the Innocents Inn game in progress), but it doesn't help the village at all.

12. Nodscouter - I believe my above post covers my stance on Nodscouter sufficiently well, so I'll condense that. Whilst he does post, it doesn't really contribute anything and is often not backed up by any substantial reasoning.

 

[Regendur]

My apologizes for my MIA, I've been diverted by a terrible combination of upcoming finals, Minecraft, PoP for Warband, and the other werewolf game. At least the last one will likely end soon.

I think the best way to catch up is via LoS.

Magorian Aximand: So far he seems to be using good logic, (as always), and I wish we could see more of it. I do need to read more of his posts to get more of an opinion, though. However, I don't see how he is misinterpreting Sootshade's argument against AWdeV, which leads me to the person in question.

Sootshade: His instinctive argument against AWdeV seems to be a legitimate one, although one that hasn't been clearly defined and/or supplied with evidence yet. The problem in people misinterpreting his argument seems to lie in this post. Here it seems like he bases his entire argument on AWdeV's smileys and "hahaha's." It was only later when when he explained his gut reaction that it made more sense. So far SootShade seems innocent, although I am not certain. I'm wondering what others have to say.

Adaham: A terrible person who uses others to his benefit! D: In seriousness, Adaham, once again, is the driving force of this game and places himself directly in the spotlight. While this is helpful for moving the game along, it could have serious repercussions if he is actually a villain. As for his pressuring me at the beginning of the game, I think it was just for getting the game started. As for my relating him to a 'mustached villain,' I actually wasn't implying anything, but the situation Adaham was presenting me simply reminded me of that. As for my opinion of him? I don't know; I need to see more from him.

Vadermath: We've only had one major post from him, and thus I can't get a read on him. I hoped to see him here after he was done with the other WW game, but it is not so.

AWdeV: I didn't like his attack on Ejnomad, as it was greatly exaggerated. Furthermore, he explains it later by saying he was certainly a wolf for defending himself against the suspicion. I wonder then, when is someone supposed to defend him/herself? 3 votes? A 1/3 majority? I don't see what's wrong with Ej defending himself against AWdeV's attack, but his further arguments are more sound. AWdeV is neutral to me currently.

Ejnomad07: I am not familiar with his playstyle, which makes it a little tougher for me to read him. However, his constant prodding of every statement seems to be quite a distraction. He doesn't focus on anyone, but rather snips at most everyone. I don't know what to make of it, but it's certainly hard to follow what he's thinking. There is one thing, though. He calls AWdeV's vote as "starting a bandwagon." As it has been seen, there is no bandwagon, and it seems that Ej could, after all, be wary of suspicion. His statement that only scum think in black and white is, as has been stated, is hypocritical as the statement itself is black and white. Overall, I'm wary of him.

Kronic: His catch up post seems rather sound, and I hope to see more from him. At least I'll be able to form more of an opinion.

Revilo: It seems like he is honest in his intent. As it is his first game, I understand that he isn't perfect in his arguments. I think that he is innocent.

Dryvus: Basically the same as Revilo.

MaHuD: MaHuD is as spazztastic as ever, and not very active. Hopefully he'll come in soon from the other WW game, and we'll see more of him.

Nodscouter: Again he doesn't do much and doesn't contribute much, even when voted for. He apparently doesn't have an opinion on anyone, which is rather worrying. I hope he'll get more involved, but I don't think that he necessarily has a villain role. He acted the same in the other WW game, and hasn't seemed to change much. Although I did see something along the lines of a defense, so he may actually be improving.

 

[Elisianthus]

Right, first off, to Nodscouter: as a WW player, you're going to have to learn to state your suspicions openly, even if you don't think there's much of a case, or at least not enough to vote. You have a tendency to wait and see who others are considering suspicious and then stating you find them suspicious. Now, I'm similar in that I tend to keep quiet until I have something solid to go on - at least to me - and then press hard. However, as my day one feelings have always ended up getting innocents lynched I'm vying slightly more towards caution this time. Look at the vocal players LoS's. I'm hardly showing up well in them. Take from this advice what you will.



I'm going to keep this concise, as a long post would contain a fair bit of needless fluff and rambling. Don't consider this a LoS, I'll be throwing one of those together before too long.

ejnomad: I'm finding you suspicious. Could you please address the points I made towards you last page? In general, you seem to be thrashing around at anything vaguely off, which is fine. I just feel the way it's working is it's throwing focus off everything else; an effect I hope you don't intend.

AWdeV: I don't get a wolfy vibe from his posts. Certainly he exaggerated a few points, but I'd be willing to pass them off as "heat of the moment." I find his arguments to be well reasoned, sensible and to the point. Whilst not smelling of roses, I feel he's being vilified beyond his crimes.

Adaham: Whilst I feel that an absence for a page is hardly disappearing off the face of the earth, you're right. I find it hard to post anything when the "sea is calm" and little is happening that I can work off. I do better with pressure, be it towards me or others, or something I consider a solid lead to work off. I'll reflect on that.

Vader: Vote: Vadermath till we see if he turns up.

On the whole, ejnomad is the only one I'd feel comfortable voting for at the moment, and even then I'm not getting a large wolfy vibe off him. If we could get an LoS from Soot, Ej and AWdeV then we would have a much better picture. As they;re all focussing on one another, I really can't pick out what they're interpretations of everyone else are.

 

[Elisianthus]

Damnit. Ammend that to "page before last" then.

 

[CryoNomad]

12. Nodscouter - So, here we go, Ejnomads favourite target. His hesitance to commit himself was indeed striking, especially when compared to the other game (Innocent Inn), where he was much more open on the first day. But like with many new players, I'm getting the feeling that it's very easy to corner him and turn anything he says into whatever suits the case. As a result, he gets even more quiet and hopes the storm passes by. That could all be considered very scummy, but it could be also a nice scapegoat for scum.

Mostly due to the fact that in Innocent inn people twisted my arguments ALOT. I kinda got scared away by that fact.

To twist your arguments would imply you had one to twist. You failed to even contribute nor bother to properly defend yourself, and have managed fail to reply to my post to you yet again. Understandable, because you're guilty as charged.

I have defended myself...

Where? I've only seen ignoring the question entirely or deflections. Where?

Well come out and defend yourself then. By getting scared away from posting or elaborating on your arguments you're only giving the wolves more room to twist and change your words to suit their needs and turn people against you. It's potentially a vicious circle, and one that you need to break in order to help out the village.

You paint the picture here like you know he's an innocent, and I'm sure you're trying to teach here and not making a Freudian slip, but it could be other way around too you know. He's a wolf afraid to open his mouth because he might slip up. A case I'm more likely to agree to at this time.

I can't believe you again misunderstood quite much all I said.

I'll try to answer it tomorrow, or maybe today if I have time, but for now I'll have to leave it.

I'd advise you to drop your crusade for now, you may be on to something but I'm more willing to see him as an overzealous innocent even if his vote case was terribly baseless. I think at this point he's an active and talking player, and we will get a good read on him in the coming days due to him being involved in so much discussion. Granted of late I think he's got tunnel vision and has ignored the other ongoing debates, but we don't need to worry about not getting more talking out of him later that's for sure. I would suggest a stronger focus from you on those that are taking a less active participation in the discussions.

Ejnomad07: I am not familiar with his playstyle, which makes it a little tougher for me to read him. However, his constant prodding of every statement seems to be quite a distraction. He doesn't focus on anyone, but rather snips at most everyone. I don't know what to make of it, but it's certainly hard to follow what he's thinking. There is one thing, though. He calls AWdeV's vote as "starting a bandwagon." As it has been seen, there is no bandwagon, and it seems that Ej could, after all, be wary of suspicion. His statement that only scum think in black and white is, as has been stated, is hypocritical as the statement itself is black and white. Overall, I'm wary of him.

RED: It's the first day, and I don't have much to go on in the first couple pages. snipping at everyone is an easy way get those I snipped at something to start discussion with me. The more talking I get the better I can get a read. I don't mean to be of distraction, I had assumed others would be able to carry on their own scum hunts just fine.

GREEN: I'm running short on time, but as I believe I'm the only one with multiple votes and I'd say he was very committed to stringing me up early. Why else do you trump up your vote with some serious misstruths and overstatements if not to stir up the collective pot to go against you? Besides when you do consider it a bandwagons? 3 votes? 5 votes? 7?

BLUE: I don't mean to say only scum think in black and white and that's not what I meant. It's just that only scum would have the agenda to bring up a case as if such actions are black and white and only scum or innocents would this or that. It's not really hypocritical because an innocent would not want to project anything as such. They should know full well innocents make mistakes and scum do innocent things to look like innocents and you can't typecast people. Only scum would try to build a case on such because it sits wonderfully in WIFOM territory.

ejnomad: I'm finding you suspicious. Could you please address the points I made towards you last page?

I will and I'm glad you find at least somebody. Frankly I'm concerned by your lack of finding anyone suspect at all. I mean if I was locked in a room with a bunch of innocents and a murderer I'd be jumping at everyone and not writing everyone off as largely innocent. Just wait until I can next post again please for a proper reply which looks like late tonight or tomorrow.


Other than Kronic's post I believe I've caught up and if I haven't do direct me to a post you would like me to address. Looking forward to Magorian Aximand's return post when I get back.

 

[Nodscouter]

To twist your arguments would imply you had one to twist. You failed to even contribute nor bother to properly defend yourself, and have managed fail to reply to my post to you yet again. Understandable, because you're guilty as charged.

And this is why I voted on you. Eager to get someone lynched as fast as possible without especially good reasons, why exactly is that ejn? I have properly defended myself and I stand by that. I have an argument to stand by and I do reply to most posts (I might have missed one because sometimes I'm too tired to read everything)
I have contributed, by voting on you I have contributed alot.

Where? I've only seen ignoring the question entirely or deflections. Where?

Show me where I have not defended myself and I will.

 

[FrisianDude]

Vadermath has expressed his wishes not to continue. He will be replaced by Facemelter.

 

[MaHuD]

11. MaHuD - Cryptic, to say the least. Disappointingly, he has yet to produce a large post of his suspicions so I can't see how he is treating the game. Suffice to say, he strikes me as wolfy though; dropping in to say a few words, claiming he has his suspicions and seemingly inside knowledge, and then vanishing again just as quickly. This does seem like his play style (going from the Innocents Inn game in progress), but it doesn't help the village at all.

What? Where do I have inside knowledge :S

 

[Revilo]

Seemingly. That's not to say that you do, but rather the way you phrased this:

Sorry not gonna cloud my head with this yet until the other game is over. Which I believe is over very soon.
I did read some stuff though, and I can say this: keep it up Nomad.

lead me to make that statement.

It could be as simple as you agree with his probing for information, yet I can't decide if you're either just trying to confuse matters by making it seem as if you know more than others or whether you're intentions are wholly good. Hopefully now the other game has finished there'll be more posts from you that can let me make a more detailed decision than, rather than this one:

11. MaHuD - Cryptic, to say the least. Disappointingly, he has yet to produce a large post of his suspicions so I can't see how he is treating the game. Suffice to say, he strikes me as wolfy though; dropping in to say a few words, claiming he has his suspicions and seemingly inside knowledge, and then vanishing again just as quickly. This does seem like his play style (going from the Innocents Inn game in progress), but it doesn't help the village at all.

which was made using what little information and gut feeling I had from you.

 

[MaHuD]

I said keep it up, because he started the game basicly
Means less spam for me to read.

 

[Revilo]

A true enough point, so I'll take you at your word for now.

However, now that you've read through everything and have time to post in this game (well done on winning the other one by the way), perhaps you'd like to share any suspicions you have, or if there's anyone who is giving you a bad vibe? There's a dangerously low amount of information from several players, including you.

 

[MaHuD]

I am still reading at the moment, actually. But I can do that what you want today yessss.
But first time for breakfast/lunch. Also this power supply won't hold, need to plug in :O