[Werewolf: Archives] Werewolf: The Tower of Games. WEREWOLVES WIN.

[FrisianDude]

I have prodded those who haven't posted on the previous three pages.

Sootshade will be replaced with Grumph.

 

[Grumph]

Howdy all!

I'll just read up on the last pages and try to come with some sort of contribution.

 

[Nodscouter]

You've said that it could be a number of things, and also said that it could be all meaningless. I agree with the last part. The important question here is what do you think of MaHuD and Revilo?

I still think that the attack might have been a way to make him seem innocent, despite no-one saying that ''Wait, MaHuD was attacked during the night, well, looks like he wasn't the wolf after all guys, no need to look closer at him'', it would have been way too obvious if someone raised that point. Instead, the wolves just let the thing slide so that everybody would remember it. Of course, this is just a hypothesis and I don't really think MaHuD is especially wolfish, but I'm going to keep the attack in mind.

Revilo, I doubt he's a wolf. I think he's done quite a bit of scumhunting and his arguments are generally quite solid.

 

[Revilo]

3. I'm pretty sure that the poisoned porridge counts as an attack - what else could it be?

I don't know, it could be a lot. For example, some sort of equivelant of a Priest's holy water?
But I suppose it could be an attack yes.


@Xardob
As for Revilo, I already understood that he only wanted information (He posted that somewhere. Somethign like:
I have no information on him at all")
Knowing that, why should I counter attack, when I think he just doing good and tries to get some information?
While it's true that he can still be a villain, it's also true I still have the flue and don't feel like posting much, not that it would be very clear anyway.

I'm not sure what a Priests holy water is, is it some sort of protection for a night? Or am I way off? I had briefly considered that as well, if that's the case, but the nature of it (AWdeV looking pale and and it having a neative effect on him generally in the narration) led me to believe otherwise. It could be a "blessing in disguise" though.

Flu must suck (never had it myself) but this still doesn't change the fact that I'd like more information from you.
Oh, and I found your post justifying your vote on AWdeV, and suffice to say it wasn't all that conclusive. "He was acting like Temuzu from another game" doesn't really swing it with me, I'd much prefer a reason with its grounds in this game.

I'm not discounting the possibility either, we've had plenty of crazy wolves before, but there's nothing that leads me to believe this is what happened, so I'd rather go with the simplest explanation that MaHuD was attacked by another pack if he's a wolf. This scenario is much better to work with because MaHuD could be either innocent or a wolf. As long as people are still considering it as a possibility - I wouldn't want any theory to fade into obscurity, especially with the amount of leads we have currently.

I'd still like to know how a no-lynch has helped the village, because as far as I can see it's resulted only in the death of an innocent, two failed attacks and still with mere speculation to go on. In regards to the voting, hell, I'm willing to accept that how I suddenly changed my vote is suspicious and pretty consistent with how I suspect a wolf would do it, yet I did it anyway because in my eyes a no-lynch is something to be avoided. I was willing to vote for Ej because he was still suspicious to me, merely not so much as others in the game. However, without the chance of those others being lynched, my vote went to the person who I was still suspcious of, and where my vote could actually make a difference.

That's the important part. What if MaHuD didn't suspect Ej at all? Should he still vote Ej just to get a lynch? If you follow this train of thought, you're giving a huge advantage to the wolves. You're taking away their responsibilities for their votes. How could you have blamed MaHuD in case the lynch was wrong if everything he was doing was in the village's best interest. It wasn't his suspicion, therefore not his fault. I hadn't thought of it that way - it would give the wolves a perfect excuse to act with very little chance of a reproach. Hmm... looking back on my accusations now with this train of thought, I've been walking pretty thin ice - it could easily be misconstrued that I'm a wolf, trying to open up alleyways of escape for other wolves, or just looking for an easier way for a bandwagon. Despite that though, I'm not going to stop pushing for information but I'll definitely be checking and viewing the points from different positions.

Now imagine a slightly different scenario. There are two candidates tied for today's lynch, each with two votes. As the deadline approaches, someone votes for one of those two. Under this reasoning, three wolves have now the perfect excuse to place risk free votes and get an easy lynch. Now tell me how likely is this scenario to happen at the pace the game is going. My guess is very likely.

 

[Elisianthus]

I must offer my most sincere apologies, but I don't think I'll be able to sit this one through to the end, I'm about to be having a ridiculously busy week, and I doubt I'd have time for constructive posting. Rather than deny you all a weeks (or longer) worth of player thought time and much as I hate to break on a commitment, I'm going to bow out instead. Will be better for the discussion in the long run.

I realise I didn't post often, but that's more my playstyle than anything else - so for that I apologise - and I wish you all luck. I'll be PMing Fris to ask for a replacement after this post.

Toodles, and I'll try to keep up with the game when I have bits of time free.

 

[Regendur]

I'm still curious as to what AWdeV's poisoned porridge means. It seems like it may have placed a posting limit on him, as we've seen very little from him when he's normally active. The narration that "he'd be on the toilet all day" or something like it also hints to it. It may be that someone saved him from an attack, at the cost of him not being able to post much the next day.

As for the MaHuD and Rev debate, I don't think either of them are suspicious, at least from their conversation. It'll take more to convince me of that. I apologize, I have not gone back to read through the posts, so I can't revise my LoS yet. My motivation has been waning thin, and I may end up asking for a replacement...

 

[Taimat396]

Good morning village, your new Kronic model is here to save the day :O

Reading up on the last page now.

 

[FrisianDude]

Yep, Kronic asked for replacement and Calodine wanted to play.

 

[Grumph]

DISCLAIMER; I am very tired and have a bad headache, so bear with me if it makes little or no sense at all.

Well, heres my LoS and observations for at start.

Listed in no particular order...

@Revilo;

Your case against MaHud seems... Desperate, at the least. Then again I have to agree with you in some points and cases, which annoys me much. I don't feel any particular bad vibes, but on the other side I don't feel any particular good vibes from you either, which sets in you some neutral stalemate for me. Because I can see and understand your points, but I don't like them. I am going to stick with you as a potential suspect.

@MaHuD;

This is my first time playing the game, but I don't understand how a No-lynch ever can help the city? It (may) avoid the lynch of a innocent, but it can also result in the village losing by not getting a villain lynched. Also:

Very well, I read it like this.

1You dislike certain actions of mine, and because you dislike it you suspect me.
2Because I was attacked during the night, I am a wolf. It gives me the oppertunity to say that I am not. (I don't remember saying that I am a cleared innocent due to the attack, I haven't mentioned anything that comes close to that)
The attack also explains my "no-vote".
3There is possibility that I was attacked on purpose by a packmate. (How would we have known that I was going to be protected?)

1: Isn't that whats the game about? I don't suspect people if they do things I like them to do. Thats odd logic.
2: It does, you are right. This links to point number three;
3: There is always a possibility for everything, and nobody can be sure of the wolves tactics and planning. I could imagine a plan which included a wolf attacking a comrade and thus having the comrade yell "I am innocent, I was attacked!" The quoted post actually made me suspect you to be a wolf(or some sort of villain). You're quite high on analyze-list.

@Xardob;

You support MaHuD in his case, which could be because you're his packmate or cult comrade or whatever; it could be because you don't like or understand Revilo's points. But you support MaHuD, which as I mentioned, is a high-rated suspect, too much for my liking. I am sure the same could be said about Revilo, and thus my point is kinda bland and suckass, but its a gut feeling. You lie just under MaHuD on my list. I also don't like how you handle the case with Ejnomad - it was kinda obvious(for me atleast) that he just wanted to start discussion, yet you jump on him with teeth and claws.

And who has teeth and claws? (rhetorical question)

@Nodscouter;

What do you expect? In a game like this you need to pull yourself together and create some contributive posts which can be used for discussion. If you are innocent, as you claim, its in your interest that the village gets some discussion going and maybe get together about suspecting someone - infact they've already done that, problem is for you that you are that someone. I'd like a non-provoked post of length from you describing your suspicions to greater detail in updated version. As I see it you're lurking a bit too much. Not high on the list, but definately suspected.

@Regendur;

I am not sure. I am really not sure. I am confused, and I am not sure. And I don't know why. But you confuse me. If you'd bother(if you don't, don't mind) to make a post summing up your opinions on everyone and the current discussions, there'd be one more over-happy human on Earth for atleast a hour. Until that, you are N/A for me.

@Adaham;

Inspector L'Adaham, you seem to be abit aggressive towards Nodscouter but it also seems that that aggressivenes, together with the others aggressivenes is for the best. Although I think you seem to be aggressiveest, I like it. You seem to be wanting the best for the village and for the moment I like you quite much. *salute*

@Ejnomad;

That was a very blunt way to start discussion, but start discussion it did. I have the feeling that you starting that discussion actually resulted in the death of Magorian, but you didn't kill him. But someone wants to help you through the start, maybe - maybe not - communicating that to you by some weird play of words that only you and that person knows, I dunno, but I think that either you have a) turned into a possible suspect b) still is innocent c) is evil, then killed Magorian to bring suspicion unto yourself so you then can call yourself innocent because of the fact that you just started discussion. Though I am most inclined towards b), I think c) is very possible.

@AWdeV;

You started by posting very aggressively, and then, you ride the ****-storm off and now you don't seem to contribute just as much as you did before... Why is that I wonder?


Forgive me if I forget somebody... Did I?

 

[Phonemelter]

I think Kronic/Cado (or Calo, whatever) and myself.

Speaking of which I will be able to make some posts again sometime tomorrow. For the holidays, my grandparents were here and every time I got on the internet, my grandfather wanted me to play cribbage with him.

 

[Xardob]

@Xardob
As for Revilo, I already understood that he only wanted information (He posted that somewhere. Somethign like:
I have no information on him at all")
Knowing that, why should I counter attack, when I think he just doing good and tries to get some information?
While it's true that he can still be a villain, it's also true I still have the flue and don't feel like posting much, not that it would be very clear anyway.

I didn't mean that you should have counter attacked. It's the lack of any aggressive action at all that bothers me, even to defend yourself you're way too passive. That doesn't seem like your innocent self, and my best guess to this behaviour is that you're more concerned with survival than with finding the wolves. I had forgotten you aren't feeling well, but even then, I can only work with what you give me.

@Xardob;

You support MaHuD in his case, which could be because you're his packmate or cult comrade or whatever; it could be because you don't like or understand Revilo's points.

Except that I don't support MaHuD in any way. I attacked Rev's arguments, but I'm still more suspicious of MaHuD than him. I thought I made that clear. Even if this wasn't the case, this wouldn't mean I'm on MaHuD's side.

I also don't like how you handle the case with Ejnomad - it was kinda obvious(for me atleast) that he just wanted to start discussion, yet you jump on him with teeth and claws.

You're mistaking me with someone else. I never attacked Ej this game and I'm one of the few players that doesn't list him as a suspect.

As for the MaHuD and Rev debate, I don't think either of them are suspicious, at least from their conversation. It'll take more to convince me of that. I apologize, I have not gone back to read through the posts, so I can't revise my LoS yet.

Who do you suspect then? You take the time to discuss a side event that we don't even know if it's relevant, but can't name a single suspect. As things are now, you could vote for anyone when the deadline comes and there would be no way to check if your vote is coherent with your suspicious. And the worst part is that you're far from being the only one.

It's good that we're getting some fresh blood. I'm especially interested to see what Cal has to say.

Where's Ejnomad? He complains a lot about the lack of activity and now that we finally have some, he disappears? And Adaham, any update on that post of yours?

 

[MaHuD]

I have to go to a lan party now, I will be back tommorow.
As for what was posted, I can say some quick stuff.

@ Revilo, Priest's water kills only wolves, others survive.

@ Grumph, Who the wolves target is out of my power to know....

 

[Grumph]

@Xardob;

You support MaHuD in his case, which could be because you're his packmate or cult comrade or whatever; it could be because you don't like or understand Revilo's points.

Except that I don't support MaHuD in any way. I attacked Rev's arguments, but I'm still more suspicious of MaHuD than him. I thought I made that clear. Even if this wasn't the case, this wouldn't mean I'm on MaHuD's side.

I also don't like how you handle the case with Ejnomad - it was kinda obvious(for me atleast) that he just wanted to start discussion, yet you jump on him with teeth and claws.

You're mistaking me with someone else. I never attacked Ej this game and I'm one of the few players that doesn't list him as a suspect.

Yes, yes I was. I apologize.

For Facemelter, and Calodine(Kronic was replaced by Calodine, right I'll get up to you later.

 

[Grumph]

I am retard.

@Xardob;

You support MaHuD in his case, which could be because you're his packmate or cult comrade or whatever; it could be because you don't like or understand Revilo's points.

Except that I don't support MaHuD in any way. I attacked Rev's arguments, but I'm still more suspicious of MaHuD than him. I thought I made that clear. Even if this wasn't the case, this wouldn't mean I'm on MaHuD's side.

I also don't like how you handle the case with Ejnomad - it was kinda obvious(for me atleast) that he just wanted to start discussion, yet you jump on him with teeth and claws.

You're mistaking me with someone else. I never attacked Ej this game and I'm one of the few players that doesn't list him as a suspect.

Yes, yes I was. I apologize.

For Facemelter, and Calodine(Kronic was replaced by Calodine, right I'll get up to you later.

I bolded my answers to make it more clear;

@MaHuD;

It certainly isn't out of your power to know where and who the wolves will attack if you are one.

 

[Nodscouter]

DISCLAIMER; I am very tired and have a bad headache, so bear with me if it makes little or no sense at all.

Well, heres my LoS and observations for at start.

Listed in no particular order...

@Revilo;

Your case against MaHud seems... Desperate, at the least. Then again I have to agree with you in some points and cases, which annoys me much. I don't feel any particular bad vibes, but on the other side I don't feel any particular good vibes from you either, which sets in you some neutral stalemate for me. Because I can see and understand your points, but I don't like them. I am going to stick with you as a potential suspect.

@Nodscouter;

What do you expect? In a game like this you need to pull yourself together and create some contributive posts which can be used for discussion. If you are innocent, as you claim, its in your interest that the village gets some discussion going and maybe get together about suspecting someone - infact they've already done that, problem is for you that you are that someone. I'd like a non-provoked post of length from you describing your suspicions to greater detail in updated version. As I see it you're lurking a bit too much. Not high on the list, but definately suspected.

@AWdeV;

You started by posting very aggressively, and then, you ride the ****-storm off and now you don't seem to contribute just as much as you did before... Why is that I wonder?

How is Revilo's case desperate? As I've seen it, Revilo posted some THEORIES about the ''attack'' on MaHuD during the night, which MaHuD then seemed to misinterpret a bit which then Revilo defended himself against. How is that in any way desperate?

Excuse me? There's only a few people that actually suspect me being the wolf, it's not like the whole ****ing village is trying to get me lynched. As I see it, Ejnomad and to a smaller extent MaHuD is alot more under suspicion than me.

AWdeV might be under posting restrictions, as he has been accused several times and have yet not responded to it. It's quite likely that he's not allowed to post because someone saved him during the night or something.

 

[Taimat396]

Xardob and Adaham aren't ringing any bells, which is especially good because they normally make me wary at the best of times. Not too worried about either of 'em as yet.

Nodscouter is...Covered in fur and clawing at the windows, but I'm going to hold off on him for now since other people are doing a good enough job and I don't want to slam him again should he turn out innocent (as per last game).

Revilo's argument doesn't make much sense as people have said, but I don't think it's down to wolfiness. More like being damn convinced of it and reading posts while trying to find something to back it up for other people's sake. Its much easier to infer something that isn't there when your convinced of his guilt and trying to back it up.

Mahud is Mahud. I really can't read him because he always, always comes off as an agressive wolf. Xardob hit the nail on the head with this though:

my best guess to this behaviour is that you're more concerned with survival than with finding the wolves.

Grumph comes off sincere if somewhat confused.

I got nothing of substance on Cedric either.

Regendur's just floating by, but he's said as much himself.

 

[Adaham]

I´m very sorry for my continued absence. First christmas stuff took more time than expected, plus my laptop is giving up on me (cooler broken, so it runs hot and shuts down - I already lost two posts to that problem). Undusting my old laptop and setting it up costs additional time that I have to plan in. Not yet done, but I´m working on it.

Game related, I must say that I find the whole theory about MaHuD being attacked by a packy pretty pointless. The likelihood of that scenario is so small that I rather not waste any energy on it.

Oh, and because Ejnomad will be happy to have a reply from me...yeah, I was thinking I had a vote on Kronic or Regendur, which is because I was considering voting them earlier. You know it´s not a secret I like regular vote counts, even if not much changes.

As a bit of time has passed, I´ll quickly make up a mini-los.

Grumph - If I sum up Trolls behavior overall, it doesn´t come across as too good. An overblown case on AWdeV ("trust my gut") and resignative behavior. Fact that he became replaced doesn´t mean much to me. Grump has come in ready, willing and almost able (gifts for the one that can let me know where that quote is from), but his observations and ideas are rather erratic, as others have pointed out already. His perception that I´m pushing a lynch of Nodscouter seems to be based on the last 4 pages, rather than the whole game. No reason yet to think of Grumph as an innocent.

Regendur - Even though he is a similar case to Kronic, my gut clearly feels less uneasy about Regendur than Kronic. Appliance of pressure yields little to no reaction and his contribution level lies continuosly low. Posting more yourself could spark your interest?!
Still, even though his little activity rings alarm bells, my gut is not convinced that he´s evil due to that.

Facemelter - Another floater. Only thing that stood out to me was his early vote on Revilo, since then he passes by with some generic questions that could be considered feeling for where the wind´s blowing from. More suspicious than Regendur, but less than Kronic.

AWdeV - Another theory I´m not quite buying into is that his "poisoning" lead to a posting restriction, as his contributions are of irregular length and intervals. He even made a LoS, but since then he´s been mostly postponing. He announced a longer post several times and never got round to it. So in general, I find his declining contribution worrying. Still not a top suspect.

Ejnomad - The obligatory wink into my direction in almost every post of his is a nice way of trying to play the "I´m watching you"-game a bit longer, and I agree that he´s watching me, just not for the reasons he´s pretending to. He is also surprisingly reactive and quiet of late, whilst claiming that his prods make me post. Based on the whole game, he´s still my top suspect.

Calodine - Kronic was the lurker that came across as scummiest to me. Lots of postponing, but he still made an interested impression. When the pressure was on he came twice with big posts to allay the attention, but he always fell back into the twilight. This looked most like conscious lurking to me, thus he´s my best bet for lurking wolf. I´m not going to put this aside immediately only because Calodine came into the game. Luckily we still have some time to work with all these replacements before the deadline kicks in.

Revilo - Hm, in the beginning I was just plain happy to see a new player that obviously knows what he´s doing. But very early on I actually started feeling irky about him. Okay, he can play, but if so, he can act as well. My gut somehow doesn´t quite buy his good will. A couple of things he did seemed a bit constructed or looked for. While it´s nice if you have good arguments for your suspicions, it sometimes feels as if Revilo is trying to overexplain his actions to a point that his arguments seem constructed. The whole interemezzo with MaHuD falls into that category for me. It´s really far too little to tell right now, but I definitely don´t have the best possible vibes from him.

Xardob - Shame on me, I haven´t treated Xardob with the proper care yet. Dryvus was slightly scummy in my view and Xardob is never an easy read. If I want to determine his role, I need to read more carefully. So far the only global conclusion I can make of him is that he seems less focused on his suspects than usual, I´m missing his strong scumdar pinging. But currently I don´t have any specific reason to suspect him strongly.

MaHuD - Forgot who said it, but I agree that MaHuD is different than usual. First he had the other game as an excuse, now he´s got the flu, but in between he also didn´t really get to his usual self. He seems more bent on survival than usual and that´s a bad sign. Has moved up in my LoS quite a lot.

Nodscouter - See my latest posts on him. Wasn´t that high up my list on day 1, but his unwillingness to contribute voluntarily is really disturbing and could be a cloak after all.

---

Sorry it got a bit shorter in the end, but I´m really tired.

My top three right now are:

Ejnomad
MaHuD
Kronic/Calodine

Time for a vote...

Vote: Ejnomad

 

[AWdeV]

I assume everyone had a merry christmas/ jolly yuletide/ happy holiday etcetera.

Anyway, first off, my comment about me visiting the toilet was a bit poorly timed, however it was just that I really needed to, not because of any porridgial matters. No, I'm not under a posting restriction. I'm afraid I've just been far too lazy these days.

Real post will be up soon.

 

[AWdeV]

Also; welcome Calodine and Grumph!

 

[AWdeV]

How did you infer two packs from the narration? I mean, yes, there's two seperate attacks mentioned (three if you count my nasty porridge) but that's all. They could easily be on the same pack. But no, that can't be! That way you couldn't ALSO insinuate I'm a wolf! Great googeldy-moogeldy, is this really how you're going to play the damn game? You've got everything thought out for yourself and everything neatly fits together? And, ofcourse, anyone who disagrees gets a minute of hate from you.

At any time, anyone could come up with grand theories like you're doing here but it's odd how it's all so perfect and shiny and you're the victim. In fact, OMGUS be damned, this whole crap makes you look even more suspicious to me. Vote: Ejnomad.

Two attacks two packs. Doesn't take a rocket scientist. Each group only gets to pick one target for their pack each night. That's how the point of the game pretty much works 99.9% of the time. Unless, I see a moderator that ****s the rules up otherwise I am going to assume they keep to the normal of these kind of games. Besides a scum pack that gets to kill two people every night is hellish overpowered to the town that only gets to kill one person each day. I would at least think you would know the traditional rules where each side kills 1 person in day and night cycles.

I have no experience as a villain, besides the relatively large amount of joker-type roles, that is. I never really thought about how packs work, or how many attacks a pack gets. I know, however, that a game where a pack has more than one attack isn't necessarily as skewed as you describe though. For example, there was a game where there were 2 herbalists working in tandem. They could choose to protect 2 people a night, or they could poison one they thought was villainous. (overdose) That, and two packs working against each others means they'll be lashing out at each other as well. Ofcourse, that doesn't apply here. You're right, it's probably 2 packs with one attack each though. It's a fairly small game, so I imagine there won't be enough to counteract a pack with 2 attacks.



MaHuD is, as always, hard to read, but I don't think he's a villain. I don't like his reason for voting for me, but I still doubt he's a wolf. It's possible, but I'm not sure.