[Werewolf: Archives] Werewolf: The Tower of Games. WEREWOLVES WIN.

[Xardob]

Edit: Guess what xardob? Several people, like adaham, also voted for him. And as I've started to build up a solid argument voting on me wasn't an option because he was afraid of getting lynched.

Yes it was. It was a better option than AWdeV if his goal was to get rid of the lynch. You were considered more suspicious than AWdeV by the village, and as you said it yourself, were also the easier target.

Don't take tips as a threats buddy. If you give no arguments, I can't answer arguments, and voting randomly isn't exactly innocent either now is it? AND NO, that was NOT a threat aimed against you no matter how much you want to misinterpret it.

A tip can be worded as a threat, and yours sure do sound so. And no, voting randomly isn't the sign of innocence. But I didn't do that. I voted you because you voted Ej. I thought that was clear. But more precisely, I voted you because of the way you voted Ej. I'll expand on this, later. For now, I'm happy with the way this is going.

 

[Troll]

Nod:

It was closer to proper than anything else you have posted, though not yet quite there. However, that was mainly regarding your other posts.

You want to make a proper argument? Well, what about we start with a length. Since you obviously have more than one point, I think you could conjure more than one sentence about each. Maybe also quote the posts you feel are particularly off. If you say he did something you should show where exactly and how he did it, before we can take the argument seriously.

You know he's a wolf? ****ing convincing without any proper argument. And if that what you call an explanation, I'd say he could ****ing fine just say the same about you. But, he's actually explaining his vote, still. You might want to realize that you don't really have any special privilege making your arguments weight more just because it you and you are sure you are right. And if you can't stand being asked to explain your points, there's no room for you in these games. ****, take a look at what trouble I had to go through regarding AWdeV, while still not managing to convince anyone. You really don't have the right to cry everyone's against you, just yet.

And you ****ing well did use your lack of experience to address the fact that ejnomad is attacking you. It's not ****ing excuse for anything. Ejnomad has no reason to give you a free ride because you are newer. Really, you might even be right that he's looking for an easier target, but all you have to do is to prove him wrong. And if you can't convince people with a couple of sentences, all you can do is try harder.

Plus, giving tips about things you've yet to clearly understand yourself to one of the most experienced players of the forum doesn't really work. In fact, I'd bet that it was him that was giving you a tip.

Feel frustrated all you want, but all you can do in this game is try harder the next time, whining and avoiding things isn't going to help you. Give us more reasoning regarding your arguments and we can actually consider them.

 

[Elisianthus]

Right, had a quick look over the results and past few pages, but don't have time for a full post. Shall cover my key points quickly:

Nodscouter: You're on shaky ground. Watch it. Remember we have a full day ahead of us and "Maybe, I know he's a wolf!" is hardly productive. Do better, though I must congratulate you. Would be good if all your posts were this long, not just when you were being grilled.

Ej: Less suspicious of you after the nights events, don't recall you having any particular clashes with either Mahud or Mags, though I understand that they may have been "safer" kills if you do transpire as bad. That aside, I'm not about to throw my vote back on you now there's more to analyse.

I'm going to go through the first day and try to see if there's any connection between the two, but I get the feeling I won't be so lucky. I'll try to elaborate more when I'm done.

 

[Nodscouter]

A tip can be worded as a threat, and yours sure do sound so. And no, voting randomly isn't the sign of innocence. But I didn't do that. I voted you because you voted Ej. I thought that was clear. But more precisely, I voted you because of the way you voted Ej. I'll expand on this, later. For now, I'm happy with the way this is going.

To some people it may sound so, but it sure as hell wasn't intended that way and therefore you have no point in that.

And as long as you provide reasons for voting, I'm fine.

You know he's a wolf? ****ing convincing without any proper argument. And if that what you call an explanation, I'd say he could ****ing fine just say the same about you. But, he's actually explaining his vote, still. You might want to realize that you don't really have any special privilege making your arguments weight more just because it you and you are sure you are right. And if you can't stand being asked to explain your points, there's no room for you in these games. ****, take a look at what trouble I had to go through regarding AWdeV, while still not managing to convince anyone. You really don't have the right to cry everyone's against you, just yet.

I know he's a wolf but I'm not forcing it on any of you, believe me.

And explain to me exactly where I've been saying that my arguments have more weight than others, cause I'm quite curious myself.

I have explained my points, so that part doesn't even make sense.

And once again, explain to me slowly without ranting where I've said that ''OMG EVERYBODYYS AGAINST ME OMGOO MOGOMGOMOGOMOGO''.

And honestly, this whole post seems like a rant although I somehow feel troll is in a bad mood right now.

And I honestly don't feel that frustrated. Hell, I'm feeling better than before seeing as people are finally seeing my arguments that I've been trying to say quite a few times now.

Edit: Goddamnit it kronic!

Like I said, I know he's a wolf, but that's not what I'm using as an argument, so that's not especially relevant now is it?

 

[Xardob]

To some people it may sound so, but it sure as hell wasn't intended that way and therefore you have no point in that.

It's a matter of perception, I agree. But in this game, everything is. If a significant part of the village interpret it as I do, I do have a point, no matter what you intended at first. It's a simple as that. But don't take this point too seriously, it was more a snipe to stir you a little than an accusation.

 

[Troll]

Nod. Would you mind simply trying to make a longer, more specific explanation? I'm sure you can manage something more, which is why I'm so horribly disappointed right now.

 

[MaHuD]

Yes but he hadn't contributed in a long time before the night started. Being a good player =/= being a high profile target. The same could also be said for the failed attack on MaHuD - he's a good player, yet there hasn't been that much contribution from him. It seems to me the wolves are targeting the experienced quieter players, although I'm not sure if this is because they could pose a risk later in the game or whether they're trying keeping it low profile.

Perhaps they are banking on the fact that there is a few people who have gone quiet will cloud any suspicions from the other players.

That's a lie. MaHuD's contribution is what almost got him killed. His last minute vote not upon myself is why he almost ended up a very dead character today. They wanted to brush away a strong naysayer to my lynch to clear the path for my lynching and get another night going. He's exactly the best target for scum to pick.

You know, during the night I thought about this. I came to the conclusion that eating me was the best idea if YOU are the wolf.
Altough it's still possible both aren't or that Awdev was thinking ahead...

However, since you came with this point, it seems like you had me planned to prove your innocense.

 

[Adaham]

That's a lie. MaHuD's contribution is what almost got him killed. His last minute vote not upon myself is why he almost ended up a very dead character today. They wanted to brush away a strong naysayer to my lynch to clear the path for my lynching and get another night going. He's exactly the best target for scum to pick.

This post stood out to me. This argument is heavily influenced by WIFOM-theories. It´s completely based on the assumption that the wolves are trying to get rid of Ejnomad a.s.a.p. and that he´s not a wolf. But if getting Ejnomad out of the way is the priority, why not attack Ejnomad directly at night?

Was MaHuD really attacked because he´s a "nay-sayer", or maybe because he stepped on the toes of some people? If you ask me, the attacks at night can be explained pretty easily. Both, MaHuD and MagAx hadn´t fully arrived in the game yet and thus left little traces to their killers. But both of them can be scary scum-hunters if they get going. Now while MagAx hadn´t left almost anything, MaHuD had started stirring the pot already. And no, it´s not all about his last vote (which I still find strange, but more about that in a minute), but about what he did before. He also had pointed into Ejnomads direction earlier when EJ was inactive and maybe he stepped on the wrong toes by saying so? Maybe better get rid of MaHuD before he starts pointing the finger openly? It´s all speculative, but there´s plenty of valid scenarios in which EJ could be one of the wolves.

Yes, it´s all speculation. But we know that nothing is for sure. What again disturbs me about EJ´s playing style is that he´s so assertive about his opinion. He posts one scenario (that favors his cause) and acts as if it´s the law. He might deny that, but this is how it comes across. And I think he´s rather successful in doing so, for if you compare that overall gist of it, it seems that many people have scratched him off their list of suspects only because he didn´t get lynched yesterday and didn´t die tonight.

He´s still atop my list of suspects.

Now some small other comments:

@MaHuD´s last vote yesterday: When he voted AWdeV last thing on day 1, I suddenly started thinking of last game when Snoopy had finished off whoever-it-was on day 1 and MaHuD immediately pointed the finger at her and called her behaviour out as extremely wolfish. He was right about that and we knew soon thereafter. His "avoiding-vote" on AWdeV (which was obviously going to be fruitless at that stage) seemed a bit like he was trying to avoid the obvious trap at any cost. Sure, the situation was different (as the day was almost over, but then even more so), but my gut felt like MaHuD´s last vote was the move of a coward-wolf. The fact he got attacked at night (or so it seems) does indeed make things look better, but as we´re dealing with two packs, it´s no guarantuee whatsoever.

---

Glad Xardob replaced Dryvus. I´m very keen to hear more from him. So far I must say I´m not really impressed by his role in the continued Nodscouter-bashing, but it´s still early, so let´s see.

Enough for now...

---
1 new reply: Hey, got beaten by MaHuD and he points out exactly the same quote that bothered me.

 

[Magorian Aximand]

I first need to apologize for my lack of activity. Finals week was horrendous. However, a change in my holiday plans meant that I would have had to be replaced anyway, so we can thank the wolves for saving Fris the trouble. Go good guys go!

 

[Adaham]

Oh, and one thing I forgot...I agree with Regendur that clear announcement of deadlines is necessary. Otherwise it gives scum just another thing to hide in.

 

[Troll]

I'd like to say, Adaham, that I don't think Ej was scratched off anyone's list. He's probably higher on mine than he was yesterday, especially with his comment regarding MaHuD's vote. As you said, he seems to like being selective about what he sees and how he understands it, making everything fit his theory.

 

[Adaham]

Maybe you didn´t scratch him off your list, but reading the first three pages of the second day, it seemed like the old alliances were reforged and all we were talking about was Nodscouters wolfishness/noobishness. Considering he just evaded nearly a lynch the last day, it was interesting to see how the fact that Nodscouter stuck with his suspicions (and confirmed them with a vote), opened up lots of possibilities for communal Nodscouter bashing.

@ the whole Nodscouter issue: The thing that disturbs me most about him at the moment is his slightly half-hearted statement that he "knows" that Ejnomad is a wolf. It looks like flirting with a claim without committing to it. SootShade has also said he "knows" AWdeV is a wolf, but he always made clear that this was a gut feeling (and how could it be anything else on day 1?). But suddenly Nodscouter starts the second day with this statement, and while I´m not for discussing potential specials, this has been noticed by everybody, including the wolves. If he really "knows", as he says, then he better explain to us how he knows, otherwise I consider it flirting it with a claim to gain ground or lure a special into a counter claim, and that´s the last thing we want. But if his "knowing" is after all also only a gut-feeling, then he better say so. Beginners tip: Choosing your words carefully is crucial in playing WW!

 

[Troll]

Yeah, I noticed that too. I just decided to ignore it and try if it would be possible to just get some proper reasoning to explain it, though. I guess it doesn't matter for much, though.

 

[Elisianthus]

He's less scratched of my list, and more "Slid back into the pile, awaiting re-reading of the first day".

 

[MaHuD]

Actually, I didn't read the new posts before I posted my comment, so basicly I had no clue that nomad was down to 1 vote. (I was in a hurry due to ENPL match starting) Awdev just looked like Temuzu last game in my eyes which made me vote for him.
As Nomad started the discussion (True, he did that before and then he was a wolf), but he knew he would be voted for if he would start it all up, so basicly I assumed he was a simple innocent, or atleast I thought the chances were higher of that.

 

[Adaham]

But MaHuD, in a way you have to admit that Ejnomad is in that respect similar to me. We´re vocal players and that´s what people expect from us. Changing the playing-style when you´re known as very aggressive is the worst thing scum can do. An aggressive player like Ejnomad can only try to continue as he always does, even if he´s scum. It´s mainly his selective perception of things that strikes me as scummy.

@ Kronic: Re-reading? Re-posting? Re-disappearing? Man, dude, you sure float between the lines, don´t you? 

 

[Elisianthus]

Nope. Re-reading. Not planning on disappearing again, besides, t'is the holidays now, and my free time has rocketed up now I'm back home. All I can do is flirt and laze around.

That said, I plan on having a good check on the first day to see if there's anything that seems off in hindsight, it's unlikely, but there's a chance for inexperienced wolves to screw up.

Either that, or I misconstrued your point entirely, in which case I apologise.

 

[Adaham]

No, you got my point pretty well. And while there´s nothing wrong with maybe re-reading some stuff, I find it striking that while there is a rather heated discussion going on, you kind of pull out of it by promising to do some archeology. Also, the topics haven´t really changed much, as we didn´t get a lynch yesterday (and so no way of putting people´s suspicions to a test) and the only person that died was basically a no-show.

While I have a rather clear picture where people like Ejnomad, Nodscouter, SootShade (to name a few) are standing, I feel that you haven´t committed yourself to any opinion yet. While you´re not the only one doing so, you are involved enough to appear and post when the pressure is on (as it was once at day 1). Still, I cannot derive any clear standpoint and I´m starting to think this might be exactly what you want. Needless to say, I think this would be very scummy behavior.

 

[MaHuD]

But MaHuD, in a way you have to admit that Ejnomad is in that respect similar to me. We´re vocal players and that´s what people expect from us. Changing the playing-style when you´re known as very aggressive is the worst thing scum can do. An aggressive player like Ejnomad can only try to continue as he always does, even if he´s scum. It´s mainly his selective perception of things that strikes me as scummy.

@ Kronic: Re-reading? Re-posting? Re-disappearing? Man, dude, you sure float between the lines, don´t you? 

When did Nomad play before btw? Only in Terror Of Tavern, or am I wrongly remembering stuff?

 

[Adaham]

Probably true on that, but since he´s been hosting too and he´s clearly experienced (plus we´ve PMed sometimes in the past), I was just assuming that this is his standard playing style. Usually peoples posting styles don´t change gravely.

While this might sound cynical, it isn´t meant to be, but allow me to ask: what point were you trying to make now? That Ejnomad is after all a rather new player? I don´t quite get it...