Were Trek: Q-re - Game over, INNOCENTS WIN :iamamoron:

[Moose!]

The good news is that if you believe all four known specials currently alive are innocent, the remaining innocents have a won game in their hands. So Soot, this is your time to shine.

I can believe that!

 

[Xardob]

The good news is that if you believe all four known specials currently alive are innocent, the remaining innocents have a won game in their hands. So Soot, this is your time to shine.

I can believe that!

Then find an innocent between Soot, Dago, Jock, Biggus Dickus and Eternal and we lynch the rest.

 

[Moose!]

Honestly Biggis dickis seems like he could go both ways...

 

[Moose!]

Eternal has given us nothing so I can’t call him innocent.

 

[Moose!]

Dago seems scummy.

 

[Xardob]

It would be funny to lynch Jock today. Just to keep the tradition going. 

 

[Moose!]

That is tempting...

 

[Jock]

Maybe Janeway should act like a captain and give us some guidance?

Very well. Here's what I'm thinking about right now. We already have confirmed an Oracle, a Tracker, a One-Shot Vigilante and a Veteran confirmed. At least three of these roles are innocents, probably all four. It's likely we have a pair of Lovers as well. What do I make of that? We're ****ed. That's a lot of firepower on the innocent team, so it's likely the wolves have just as much.

Were this a standard WW game, I'd say the pack is Dago, Eternal and Jock or Biggus Dickus as the third, if you accept Moose and Rocco as innocent lovers.

But since the wolves probably have a couple of specials on their side, that opens the game a bit. I'm sure the wolves have either a roleblocker or someone immune to special actions. If you think Brutus role is restricted to kills, his role doesn't make sense as a wolf. He could still be a villain if you think that ability can nullify anything that targets him. Another possibility would be making one of the lovers a wolf. Even with all that, I still think there's one more ability the wolves may be hiding.

I, for one, am not convinced of Rocco and Moose's innocence. I am quite sure the wolves also have someone with abilities, I just don't think they have phasers. Or maybe they do and you just pulled off a really bold move yesterday.

I am still suspicious of Dago, but now Moose has moved up with this post here:

Do you know what was weird about Jock joining the band wagon? He said that he reluctantly agreed with me, but I don't really recall giving much reasoning for pushing a lynch against Archer.

It feels weak and contrived, especially given that Biggus followed my post pretty much word for word right away.

If Marowit doesn't post soon he should be lynched.

Speaking of, I did think Caesar was quick to jump to Brutus' defense for no reason. No one has really convinced me that a wolf shouldn't have a kill avoid skill, and Soot's total lack of consideration for that roll makes little sense as well.

Notably, in a game of all specials, the Wolves would likely need specials in addition to their night kill, otherwise they would stand out when they don't have a special.

Brutus, Caesar, Sootus pack? Soot did seem especially reluctant to put the hammer down on Arch3r...

This is an interesting thought. Are you suspecting everyone besides Rocco and yourself, Moose?

 

[Roccoflipside]

Well, he does seem scummy. But then again he always has 

Brutus, care to explain how I'm condemning myself? Seems to me that's only true if you're absolutely sure I'm scum, and we all know only [scum] deal in absolutes.

I like James "BTD" Kirk's play, but that just might be from our... Experience day 1.    not my ideal lynch.

Xardob is playing... Finally. I still have him down as innocent based on his latest posts, and his special role. Would not lynch, sorry I tried to get you lynched earlier 

Moose! is innocent, but it's funny that y'all switched from me to him as the one of us who's a wolf. Please remove your votes from him immediately.

Dago... I want to trust you, I'm trying. You just feel... So different from soot's game (I wasn't in it but I read through) that it makes it hard. Wouldn't lynch today, but is on my radar.

Soot still hits me as innocent as the way he was coming at me yesterday felt remarkably similar to last game. However, this is Soot we're talking about, so he's definitely still on the radar.

Eternal...ly lurking. Still think he's a wolf, but seems like no one else wants to kill him yet. Willing to wait on this one.

Rocco...
Well y'all know what I'm gonna say.

 

[Troll]

Maybe Janeway should act like a captain and give us some guidance?

Very well. Here's what I'm thinking about right now. We already have confirmed an Oracle, a Tracker, a One-Shot Vigilante and a Veteran confirmed. At least three of these roles are innocents, probably all four. It's likely we have a pair of Lovers as well. What do I make of that? We're ****ed. That's a lot of firepower on the innocent team, so it's likely the wolves have just as much.

Were this a standard WW game, I'd say the pack is Dago, Eternal and Jock or Biggus Dickus as the third, if you accept Moose and Rocco as innocent lovers.

But since the wolves probably have a couple of specials on their side, that opens the game a bit. I'm sure the wolves have either a roleblocker or someone immune to special actions. If you think Brutus role is restricted to kills, his role doesn't make sense as a wolf. He could still be a villain if you think that ability can nullify anything that targets him. Another possibility would be making one of the lovers a wolf. Even with all that, I still think there's one more ability the wolves may be hiding.

The good news is that if you believe all four known specials currently alive are innocent, the remaining innocents have a won game in their hands. So Soot, this is your time to shine.

Well, I think Xardob's very accurately described the possibilities that we are currently working with, so let's see how that fits with my read of the game, and how it all looks by process of elimination:

Out of the apparent innocent roles out in the open, Xardob's marks him as the most reliably innocent, and his assessment of Brutus is entirely what I'm thinking. To me, the way the incident was narrated still indicates that his ability protects against killing abilities specifically, so I'm counting him as very likely to be innocent as well. Honestly, the more I think about it, this incidents appears to have been a huge boon for the village in solving this game.

However, Dago is still my strongest innocent read individually, outside of role shenanigans. I think his aggressiveness towards just about everyone in the game, whilst it could certainly be more focused for better results, indicates that he's trying to win the game without being concerned much by his own survival, which is a solidly innocent mindset in my books. I'm still somewhat concerned that he might be trying to pocket me, after how he changed his tune somewhere around the middle of day 1, but I don't see any sort of an active effort in that direction either. Thus he is still the person third farthest from the noose on my list.

As for Moose and Rocco, the issue is that they are both people that I've got various scum reads on throughout the game. I, and my gut in specific, am having a hard time reading both of them as innocents. Furthermore, the possibility of them landing on different teams as the lovers is definitely a possibility worth considering in my mind, as that's certainly one way that could help balance things out with this number of innocent specials. With all that said though, I think that in Moose's case in particular the deviation that I'm seeing from his last game can basically be explained by the extra certainty from at least apparently knowing the role of another player; that definitely came into play with me and Hamlet last game. So if there is a scum between the two of them, I'm still thinking it's Rocco. However the possibility of them both being wolves trying to play out the lovers is basically nonexistent in my mind at this point, regardless of how crazy Moose is, so I don't think a lynch between them makes sense for today.

That leaves just three players, who I'd conveniently already marked as my targets for today: Eternal, Crassius and Jock. Almost too convenient in fact, which is another reason I'm hesitant to take Rocco and Moose for confirmed innocents. Both Crassius and Jock being scum, by the close association in the reasoning I'm suspecting both of them, seems somewhat unlikely as well. Still, I think these are the only three that make sense for lynching today. And right now, with the scenarios I'm thinking about, there's one player that fits very cleanly into all of them. For all that that always makes me uneasy, I'll just let my gut take the lead, and start us on our proper path for today.

Vote: Eternal

I'm still happy to hear him talk first, but I'd rather you lot start shifting towards this wagon from the Moose one.

 

[Catholic]

Have my comments as I re-read the thread.

Up to page 10: I have very strong innocent vibes from SootShade and Dago. They're sparring but I think it is two innocents wasting their time on each other.

@Soot comment on me being a lurker wolf: I lurked last game I played in and I was innocent. I am lurking now. My lurking behavior has everything to do with how much time I have and nothing to do with my alignment. I love Werewolf. If I'm an innocent, I like thinking of what packs exist and how dynamics between players can give away who is evil. If I'm a wolf, I like to pretend to do the same. I'm sure there's things that give me away as a wolf in the games where I am a wolf, but lurkishness is not one of them.

Boo Soot and archer, you both know nothing and one of you is probably a wolf. I’d bet archer.

Scummy post. Setting up dichotomies makes it very easy for wolves to narrow down two innocents to lynch. Especially when there is no sensible reason for them.

Soot why don’t we compromise and lynch Brutus?

Moose! wolf confirmed. Thanks for sticking up for me on my birthday, but it makes you no less hairy.

Alright, I'll bite. Soot calls me out for wanting to wait to hear from the lurkers, Daho calls me out for not doing any hunting. I provide a basic los, and some ideas as to where the wolves might be, and yet I'm the wolf? My votes, other than my joke vote on jock, were for Marowit (which I screwed up), Xardob, and Doge, who have all been lurking, in an attempt to draw them into the game.

I said that I don't yet have a read on any of the vocal players besides moose, whom I still have as innocent, but I know y'all will give me more to go on in the later game than a lurker will. It's easier for a vocal wolf to get away if there's a bunch of lurkers in late game, or at least that's how I see it.

Other than me, which non-lurkers do you have a read on? If you answer none, than I'm going o have to move you (soot) up my list.

Trademark wolf post - "I am voting on pointless people who are barely reading the thread so they play" makes ****all sense but at the same time I'm getting serious innocent vibes.

@Soot on lynching lurkers: Stop making so much sense.

Vieira's post on page 14 is scummy as hell, but I think Vieira is a wolf every game and I'm always wrong.

Xardob's post on page 15 is so flimsy... So is Jock's...

Bunch of "do we vote lurkers or not" discussion. I think it's an interesting talk; I think trying to draw allegiances based on where people fall on this argument is useless. Sootshade and I seem to be in agreement here.

Rocco is giving me villainous vibes. Nonsense posts with low-effort hunting when the pressure is on is not an indicator of being innocent.

Moose!'s LoS makes no sense. Would vote Brutus for being scummy? For what? Roleplaying? The arguments just don't make sense at any point. It feels like he's pretending so hard.

Crassius's post is even worse. Xardob as the most likely spy? Based on what evidence? The fact Rocco agrees with it does not help the point at all..

Eternal blatantly lying about posting an LoS is terrible.

Dago *****ing about nobody hunting makes me fairly certain he's an innocent. Arch3r makes some very strange accusations against him.

Brutus dives on Xardob. Again, none of these anti-Xardob posts make sense to me. He's made one post where he seemed worn out. Really not worth the lynch. Brutus then dives on me, despite the fact he seemed to approve of the one post I've made up to this point. What the hell?

Rocco thinks Dago is a good "compromise vote".... aghhh! He's trying the hardest in the entire game! Why would wolves stick their necks out when nothing is going on?

Rocco posts an LoS and I think I have the exact opposite read on every single player.

Jock posts some wishy-washy garbage.

Haha what the **** did Xardob do? Why shoot Brutus of all people? I guess it makes sense - I would've done the same since I have no read on Brutus at all. But ballsy.

Moose! and Dago start to lock horns, interesting.

Arch3r thinking everyone is a special is BIG. Means he's a special.

Bunch of stats talk. I can only get so aroused.

Rocco really wants me dead, alright alright.

Moose! wanting Arch3r dead... ugh...

Rocco and Jock jumping on that wagon makes me suspicious too.

Holy **** that Crassius low-effort "I agree with Moose" bandwagon vote.

Soot reluctantly dove on it..

**** I feel so bad for not existing last turn. There's no chance I would have voted for Arch3r after his "I think everyone is a special" comment. Goddamnit. I know it sounds like horse**** since I'm posting day 2 after knowing the outcome, but gah.

People seem to want to lynch me day 2. I don't even blame you.

Vieira is a strange night kill. There's no information there. Vieira just kind of did ****all.

Moose! turns on Soot, interesting.

Crassius's "I told you so" after jumping on the wagon... ooooof. So scummy.

Bunch of meaningless Brutus back-and-forth.

Mostly nonsense speculation after that. Arch3r already gave away the 'everyone is specials' top secret. No point in going on about it.

Good post by Sootshade with a bizarre conclusion. You can't make up logic to support your gut feeling of wanting to lynch me lol.

 

[Adaham]

Honestly Biggis dickis seems like he could go both ways...

That's what he said 



Votecount Day 2

Moose! (2): Lord Brutus, Biggus Dickus
Marowit (2): Moose!, SootShade

Not voting: everyone else



As to the role/affiliation question...it's as I said before. I have roles assigned to the names, those indicate who you are. They might or might not have to do with who your character is, but there is no such thing as affiliation or whatever.



If it seems like I'm constantly gone, rest assured that I feel the same way. This afternoon I'm leaving for work again, will be back on Saturday evening or so. If you guys get in a spammy mood and I'm not around for a votecount, maybe help yourself, you've got my blessing. Thanks for understanding.

 

[Catholic]

CONCLUSIONS

Curio - BLATANT WOLF. Jumped on Arch3r bandwagon. Pretended to regret it. Had a bunch of flip flops and largely nonsensical arguments Day 1. I do not think I've ever had as strong wolf vibes from someone as I have this game.

Jock (Spock) - Boring posts for the most part that are fairly standard for Jock. Dove on the Arch3r bandwagon earlier than I'm comfortable with.

Dago Wolfrider (Captain Jean-Luc Picard) - Incredibly innocent. Without a doubt. Hunted the entire game and did it genuinely. Posts are logical and make sense.

SootShade (Lt. Commander Data) - Almost as innocent as Dago. Good posts. Genuine hunting.

Lord Brutus (Lt. Commander Worf) - Uncomfortable with his flip-floppiness without any sensible reasoning. Uncomfortable with his engagement in useless arguments. Does not feel like a net contributor to the team (though obviously I'm not one to talk).

Xardob (Captain Janeway) - Hard to read, but ballsy shot on Brutus makes me think innocent.

Roccoflipside (Seven of Nine) - Nonsense votes. Completely broken reasoning. Jumped on the Arch3r wagon super early. I might be biased because my reads of people is so different than Rocco's, but I'm not a fan.

Moose! (EMH) - I've been very critical of Moose! in my read-through above, and he started the Arch3r wagon, but I can't help but feel like there's a lot of genuine effort involved. Moose! feels like a person an old Eternal would dive after and get tunnel vision in lynching, and turn out to be completely wrong. I want to leave him alone and see what happens.



Vote: Curio

Come on. Read his posts.

 

[Catholic]

The big read I have on this game is that Moose! is probably a very misguided innocent and Curio/Rocco are using his reasoning as a wagon to get innocents lynched, with Jock as a buddy helping out in that regard.

 

[Adaham]

Votecount Day 2

Moose! (2): Lord Brutus, Biggus Dickus
Marowit (2): Moose!, SootShade
Biggus Dickus (1): Marowit

Not voting: everyone else

 

[Troll]

What the actual ****. I was bracing myself for some complete horse**** when I saw you looking at the thread, and then you just come out with entirely reasonable reads all around? Is this how you try to buddy up with me, making sense? Got to admit, it's a pretty good way.

Regarding Arch3r's specials comment... That completely didn't register with me. Probably happened at the point where I was barely paying attention, at the end of the day?

No comment on the Rocco-Moose connection though? I do somewhat like that you are focusing on your reads rather than getting bogged down in the role discussion unlike everyone else, but does this not really enter into consideration, especially with my last post, based on it largely, being a good one according to you?

 

[Catholic]

Didn't adaham say he randomly generated allegiances?

 

[Troll]

Just a quick info: contrary to all other speculations or meta-information you might be collecting, this game is indeed totally randomised with roles. I did, however, change most roles a wee bit around to add some flavor for everybody. I realized that those Star Trek characters in general would be great for a large and complicated game, where they could all be some form of specials. Here it's taken down quite a bit. At the heart, I still think this is a simple and small setup, but with some flavor abilities to make things work for you.

Hope you enjoy, and if there are questions, don't hesitate to ask! 

I think this post was probably left somewhat vague on purpose, but to me the most reasonable reading is that he designed the roles, both abilities and team, first and then randomly assigned them to players. Why?

 

[Dago Wolfrider]

Didn't adaham say he randomly generated allegiances?

When I talk about allegiances I mean Innocents and Traitors/Baddies,...

you just come out with entirely reasonable reads all around?

Hell yeah he did. If Marowit is a wolf then...

WOW​

My most innocent read so far. Shame you were not here earlier.

Just one question: why did you vote me and what's up with the balls thing, that I then have stolen from you?

 

[Adaham]

Alright, once more for everybody: I created the roles based on characters. But since all of them are more or less good guys, there must be some room for villains as well. I don't want people to get into meta-speculations on which character COULD be interpreted as evil based on the show, especially since some don't know anything about Star Trek and would be at a clear disadvantage. Therefore, for all roles I had a good and a bad version in mind. Obviously their traits might in some cases differ based on allegiance, but that's really getting speculative. Basically all my roles were custom modelled, loosely based on Star Trek stuff.

Whether that means that a pair of cupids could be a mix of good and evil, is completely up in the air. I'm not going to confirm either way, not even whether that's in the game at all or not, I just think it is not very helpful speculation. And would ask you to refrain from getting me to comment on stuff like this, as it's potentially game-breaking. Some of you flirt rather openly with potential roles, which I cannot prevent, but you gotta deal with the speculations yourself.