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Were our expectations to high?

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To be honest I don't even remember that much marketing. Maybe a couple of videos and then devblogs that were made only to meet the community's desperate demands of "we need to see more give us more". Then they fired the old community manager and hired a new one, because of community feedback. Then some devblogs were ok, while some were barely giving anything worth hyping for. What I do remember is a ton of people hyping up themselves though. It was just a fun harmless meme for the most part and for most people to hype up the game, but I guess some people took it too seriously. It wasn't really the developers that did it, but the community. So people need to take some responsibility when it comes to that and not be like: "well it's TW's fault we got hyped". That's some feminist mentality there and it never looks good on anyone, "it must always be somebody else's fault, I could never be to blame". I hyped myself up, nobody forced me to do this. Look at it through a different perspective. If we're so easily convinced by simple marketing strategies and devs/producers can control us so easily it's again, our fault (even by taleworlds, who are clearly incompetent devs throughout are they not? Or does the community now believe TWs are MASTERS of marketing now? Let's be real for a moment). Instead of swiping everything under the rug and do what's easy by blaming and flaming others, do something about it and smarten up for the next time instead, take it as a lesson. Don't blame others consistently, just learn and move on (there's a big chance that this kind of behavior also extrapolates to other areas of your life, and it's really not good for anyone). People go through a lot of crap and disappointments, that's life. But you learn and you move on. The worst thing is when you never learn and you go through the same crap and disappointments again. In this case it's just a matter of hyping yourself up vs keeping your expectations stone-cold low. It's also a matter of moving on. What I found through my numerous disappointments is that no matter how sure you are of a thing, it can always disappoint you. It's all inner stuff, not outer.

Now to be more objective. A developer's job is to sell a game, a product. Why do people get hyped for so many games? That Cyberjunk 77? I never for once felt hype for that, I thought it looked bad, but for some reason people were loving it. Consumers are usually not the smartest of the bunch... like sheep they spread hype worse than a virus can ever spread. If someone sells you a car and you buy it, then your car breaks down, do you blame the car salesman for trying to sell you the car? This is the moment where we need to have some self-accountability. If you never change, and if you don't hold other gamers accountable to change, this will keep repeating itself, an endless cycle of: "See marketing -> Get hyped -> spread the hype -> be disappointed). Instead of pulling torches at devs or other people in your life who failed your expectations (and there are a lot of such devs/people, and the main culprit to blame are expectations), pull that torch on yourself instead and ask yourself why'd you did that to yourself? Facing yourself and the truth is not ever comfortable, it's easier to just hate and blame another in any kind of situation, but that doesn't lead to any growth either. "She left me, she cheated on me, it's all her fault". But you chose her, you didn't see the signs, you believed. Now I don't want to say that people should go all emo and blame themselves for anything really, but I want to say that these kind of situations are so common in most areas of life, and we need to be willing to gain the maturity to also see our own fault in the situation and to not go all crazy in only one direction and see only the other person's fault.

About the game, I still believe Bannerlord was worth the money and the mods will provide huge replayability and content for everyone, including those severely disappointed. People keep comparing this base game with warband's mods instead of warband vanilla which really isn't fair at all. When they see warband they also see all their beloved mods, a decade worth of them. Sure, it would have made sense for devs to look into the more popular mods and see what they can learn from that, and they did, just not what and how much the community expected. One dev once compared prophesy of pendor (which had their own vision) with the extended native mod, which was all over the place. So what he personally learned is that a proper vision of their own is necessary to not create a product that is all over the place. Reality is subjective and we just cannot expect everyone to see it through our own eyes. So the answer is yes, expectations were too high, as they always are for the things we care about most. But we can learn to care for things and not expect so much of them, which is something we often forget. This would do us good and others.
 
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To be honest I don't even remember that much marketing. Maybe a couple of videos and then devblogs that were made only to meet the community's desperate demands of "we need to see more give us more". Then they fired the old community manager and hired a new one, because of community feedback. Then some devblogs were ok, while some were barely giving anything worth hyping for. What I do remember is a ton of people hyping up themselves though. It was just a fun harmless meme for the most part and for most people to hype up the game, but I guess some people took it too seriously. It wasn't really the developers that did it, but the community. So people need to take some responsibility when it comes to that and not be like: "well it's TW's fault we got hyped". That's some feminist mentality there and it never looks good on anyone, "it must always be somebody else's fault, I could never be to blame". I hyped myself up, nobody forced me to do this. Look at it through a different perspective. If we're so easily convinced by simple marketing strategies and devs/producers can control us so easily it's again, our fault (even by taleworlds, who are clearly incompetent devs throughout are they not? Or does the community now believe TWs are MASTERS of marketing now? Let's be real for a moment). Instead of swiping everything under the rug and do what's easy by blaming and flaming others, do something about it and smarten up for the next time instead, take it as a lesson. Don't blame others consistently, just learn and move on (there's a big chance that this kind of behavior also extrapolates to other areas of your life, and it's really not good for anyone). People go through a lot of crap and disappointments, that's life. But you learn and you move on. The worst thing is when you never learn and you go through the same crap and disappointments again. In this case it's just a matter of hyping yourself up vs keeping your expectations stone-cold low. It's also a matter of moving on. What I found through my numerous disappointments is that no matter how sure you are of a thing, it can always disappoint you. It's all inner stuff, not outer.

Now to be more objective. A developer's job is to sell a game, a product. Why do people get hyped for so many games? That Cyberjunk 77? I never for once felt hype for that, I thought it looked bad, but for some reason people were loving it. Consumers are usually not the smartest of the bunch... like sheep they spread hype worse than a virus can ever spread. If someone sells you a car and you buy it, then your car breaks down, do you blame the car salesman for trying to sell you the car? This is the moment where we need to have some self-accountability. If you never change, and if you don't hold other gamers accountable to change, this will keep repeating itself, an endless cycle of: "See marketing -> Get hyped -> spread the hype -> be disappointed). Instead of pulling torches at devs or other people in your life who failed your expectations (and there are a lot of such devs/people, and the main culprit to blame are expectations), pull that torch on yourself instead and ask yourself why'd you did that to yourself? Facing yourself and the truth is not ever comfortable, it's easier to just hate and blame another in any kind of situation, but that doesn't lead to any growth either. "She left me, she cheated on me, it's all her fault". But you chose her, you didn't see the signs, you believed. Now I don't want to say that people should go all emo and blame themselves for anything really, but I want to say that these kind of situations are so common in most areas of life, and we need to be willing to gain the maturity to also see our own fault in the situation and to not go all crazy in only one direction and see only the other person's fault.

About the game, I still believe Bannerlord was worth the money and the mods will provide huge replayability and content for everyone, including those severely disappointed. People keep comparing this base game with warband's mods instead of warband vanilla which really isn't fair at all. When they see warband they also see all their beloved mods, a decade worth of them. Sure, it would have made sense for devs to look into the more popular mods and see what they can learn from that, and they did, just not what and how much the community expected. One dev once compared prophesy of pendor (which had their own vision) with the extended native mod, which was all over the place. So what he personally learned is that a proper vision of their own is necessary to not create a product that is all over the place. Reality is subjective and we just cannot expect everyone to see it through our own eyes. So the answer is yes, expectations were too high, as they always are for the things we care about most. But we can learn to care for things and not expect so much of them, which is something we often forget. This would do us good and others.
I will save you this whole paragraph: The game is very boring, should not need have mods for that.🎬
 
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Dude, you just made up a strawman complainer that's naive and irresponsible (and feminist?! wtf?) and always looking for excuses, just like... TW white knights.
There are plenty of responsible people who are not fooled by marketing and are quite right to expect not to be scammed by an unfinished game that's lacking in many departments.
We expected a bland game like Warband was, but didn't expect an even blander one with serious stability issues that Taleworlds seems unable to fix so far. Even when they fix the bugs and crashes, it will still be a bland game that's not much fun unless you were born yesterday.

I do agree that fans hyped the game and contributed to its financial success. They made Taleworlds money with their enthusiasm. In return, they were roundly ignored when suggesting how to make the game better in obvious ways. Even when they saw the real state of the game on EA, they trusted Taleworlds to fix it. Your strawman complainer is nothing like that.
Obviously, if you bought an EA game, you take PART of the responsibility for trusting Taleworlds to deliver something you wanted. But the official Taleworlds devblogs were misleading about the poor state of the game and they didn't lower expectations before the EA, which would have been the responsible thing to do - and therein lies the MAJOR part of the responsibility. They took the money on false pretenses and went AWOL when it was time to face the music. I'm sure they meant well though and feminists are the worst and if someone scams you it's somehow your fault.
 

WhyAmIHere

Dude, you just made up a strawman complainer that's naive and irresponsible (and feminist?! wtf?) and always looking for excuses, just like... TW white knights.
There are plenty of responsible people who are not fooled by marketing and are quite right to expect not to be scammed by an unfinished game that's lacking in many departments.
seriously what is up with these people shoe-horning their political gripes into literally everything
 
Dude, you just made up a strawman complainer that's naive and irresponsible (and feminist?! wtf?) and always looking for excuses, just like... TW white knights.
There are plenty of responsible people who are not fooled by marketing and are quite right to expect not to be scammed by an unfinished game that's lacking in many departments.
We expected a bland game like Warband was, but didn't expect an even blander one with serious stability issues that Taleworlds seems unable to fix so far. Even when they fix the bugs and crashes, it will still be a bland game that's not much fun unless you were born yesterday.

I do agree that fans hyped the game and contributed to its financial success. They made Taleworlds money with their enthusiasm. In return, they were roundly ignored when suggesting how to make the game better in obvious ways. Even when they saw the real state of the game on EA, they trusted Taleworlds to fix it. Your strawman complainer is nothing like that.
Obviously, if you bought an EA game, you take PART of the responsibility for trusting Taleworlds to deliver something you wanted. But the official Taleworlds devblogs were misleading about the poor state of the game and they didn't lower expectations before the EA, which would have been the responsible thing to do - and therein lies the MAJOR part of the responsibility. They took the money on false pretenses and went AWOL when it was time to face the music. I'm sure they meant well though and feminists are the worst and if someone scams you it's somehow your fault.
I mean, people should know what to expect when buying early access by now, devs even stated that just not with huge flashy letters, so I guess some people missed it. Bannerlord was not the first and is certainly not the last. The stability issues are pretty much a given until a full release. About the blandness, I really don't agree... what did native warband have that was not bland in comparison? For its time yes, it was a really good game. But objectively it didn't have better features than bannerlord will have at full release, I say that with utmost certainty. Sieges have so much more than warband did already (the classic single ramp where everyone just goes to like magnets wasn't bland?). We have more troops on the battlefield (1000 compared to 150 unmodded? Now troops go on 3 sides, we have siege towers, ladders, battering ram, freaking catapults with multi-flamy-projectile throws, ballistas, throwing rocks on people hitting the inner gate. How is this not a huge improvement?). The reason people are not seeing that bannerlord is better and less bland is because the things that are supposed to be working aren't yet, YET. But it's not like devs will give up on siege AI and just bring back the 1 ramp and say screw it man, we can't ever fix this.

We've been having some worse stability issues for 2 or 3 patches, sure. Things happen and fixing them will take some figuring out. But the game was also smooth in other patches. It's easy to say "game is so bad" when it is in its worse state, but just imagine it smooth like butter, sieges working, and some other additions that will hopefully be improved upon (keep battles, prison escape etc).

My comment about feminism is just to show how ugly always complaining and not taking responsibility for one's actions can look like. It's a classic example, it's not about the political aspect of it. That's the only purpose the comparison served, because some people like to blame anything else but themselves for their own actions (buying the game, being hyped etc).
 
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Bjorn The Hound

Grandmaster Knight
WBVCNWWF&SM&B
About the blandness, I really don't agree... what did native warband have that was not bland in comparison?
Marshall
The Marshall is the military commander of a faction. The title defaults to the Monarch, but will generally be assigned to one of the Vassals of that faction.

In the original game, the King periodically calls a vote to choose the new marshall. Two candidates will be listed and every other lord of that faction will cast one vote for one of the two candidates. If you are a vassal, you may cast one vote as well. The candidate you vote for will like you more (+2) and the one you didn't vote for will like you less (-2), regardless of which one wins.[...]

Being the Marshall
Being the marshall gives you the power to give orders and organize military campaigns. You will also have full authority over your allies in battle, so you may instruct their troops just as you would your own.

To give orders to your fellow lords (including the monarch), just speak with them and select "I have a new task for you." A list of orders will then be shown. To cancel orders, tell the lord "I won't need you for some time. You are free to do as you like."[...]

Controversy
In Warband, controversy can make your time as marshall very brief. Every time anything bad happens to your faction, your controversy can increase quite rapidly. The larger your faction, the more difficult it is to maintain order.

Once your controversy starts nearing 100, your monarch will want to replace you.

Right to rule
Right to rule is the amount of respect points you have. This is used when you are founding your own kingdom, and it only appears in Warband.

The higher your right to rule is, the more likely lords will be to see you as the real king and even join you. If you have a low right to rule, other kingdoms will take you as a renegade, and other lords may not join your faction when you attempt to persuade them. Having low right to rule also means that the lords in different factions will not respect you as much when you talk to them. This can take the form of the lords stating that 'You are a lord with no master' and vice versa after you talk to them.[...]


Marriage
[...]Once your relationship is high enough you may propose, and with the blessing of her family, you may then marry at the next feast held in the land. A minimum of 20 relation points are required to guarantee an accepted proposal, although it is possible (but less likely) for a lady to accept a proposal with a lower relationship. Chance for it is calculated with players persuasion and amount of relation points you are lacking (in other words, 20 minus your relation points). Failing persuasion has a penalty of losing 1 relation point. Sometimes she will have another admirer, and you will need to duel him for the claim.

Sometimes a lady's father won't accept the player as a suitor, so he will need to somehow persuade her father to give him her hand in marriage. He will also ask for a dowry that must be paid before the marriage can proceed. The couple can also choose to elope, making an enemy of any of her relatives. If the lady's father defects to another kingdom, the wedding will be called off, as you and the lady's father will now be enemies, though you can still elope.[...]


Claimants
Claimants may exist for certain factions, who all believe that they have been wronged and should rightfully be the ruler.

They can be found randomly in castle or town keeps throughout the land, trying to raise support for their cause. Claimants will never be found within the borders of the faction for which they are the claimant. Talking to a traveller and paying a small fee will give you the current location of any claimant.

Once you find a claimant, they will tell you their side of the story and will ask you to take up their cause. If you have less than 200 renown, they will tell you that you need to gain more. With over 200 renown, the claimant will allow you to swear an oath of vassalage and your allegiance changes to the rebel faction. If you were starting your own kingdom, you have to give up your kingdom to become a vassal of the claimant. If you belonged to the faction that the claimant is trying to overthrow, the fiefs you currently own convert to the rebel faction of your claimant (temporarily under your control).

Once you eliminate the original faction, your rebel faction becomes the "original" faction and you become the marshall of the new king or queen (permanently in classic; you can step down, but it can never be taken from you).

In Warband, you also lose all the abilities associated with being a ruler such as assigning fiefs or sending emissaries. For this reason, beware of turning companions into lords during a claimant quest as they do not remain 'yours' when the original faction is defeated. Rather, they become lords of the new "original" faction led by the new monarch. If you'd like to have a companion as a prisoner, it may be easier to give them over during a claimant quest than force them to rebel during your own bid for kingship.


Founding a new kingdom
[...]Your CourtWhen you start your own kingdom, you will be told that a court has been set up in your kingdom's capital. This capital is automatically assigned to the first town or castle you obtained and still possess. If you do not have any towns, the court will be held in the first castle you obtained. The court can be moved at any time, though certain materials are required (Tools and Velvet).

The court is where your main affairs are conducted, where your minister stays, where your feasts are held, and where vassals go if they wish to join your kingdom. The court is where all decisions are made, from giving fiefs to vassals to choosing a new marshall to conquer foreign lands.[...]
Vassals Joining the Kingdom
As a ruler you will often find landless lords from other kingdoms in your court, hoping to become your vassal. This can happen at random for the most part, but it is also heavily influenced by their personality, their experience with their last kingdom, your renown, and how many unassigned fiefs you have. You can try to get other nobles to defect to your cause by talking to them privately and asking how they feel about their liege, but do not expect a high success rate; while the nobles may dislike their current ruler, most dislike being branded a traitor even more. Much like recruiting lords for a claimant's cause, trying to get other lords to join your kingdom is heavily dependent on renown, number and location of fiefs, kingdom's total troop size, affection, your charisma, your persuasion level, and mere chance. A notable exception is your husband when playing a female character, an option appears when talking to him that instantly makes him join your faction regardless of your relations with him.

But objectively it didn't have better features than bannerlord will have at full release, I say that with utmost certainty.
Just read the spoiler. You will see what is bland about Bannelord and what was great about Warband. If you think that all of these missing elements will be added to Bannerlord at full release, just quickly review what devs said when asked about these missing features.
 
Just read the spoiler. You will see what is bland about Bannelord and what was great about Warband. If you think that all of these missing elements will be added to Bannerlord at full release, just quickly review what devs said when asked about these missing features.
1) So Marshall feature won't be implemented to tell lords what to do, and instead we get the "aggressive-defensive-neutral" options, ok that's one that I've seen people ask for that won't be back. Personally I think in a game where it's so easy to defeat AI lords such a feature would be broken, I'm probably one of the few who don't want to tell lords "go attack that". It would make the game so easy imo... Controversy is tied into the Marshall feature so I don't consider that a feature on it's own. Right to rule is I guess another thing I don't consider that important. In my opinion if they improve the relationship system where it would create more variance between lords that like you and that don't then your right to rule would basically be if you can make most/or all the lords like you enough, which would make sense because you receive their support. I don't see the point of such an obscure thing to grind for like a "right to rule". Other than that we have renown, create our own kingdom once highly renowned, and renown will also get a decay in the future if I'm not mistaken. I'm not much into kingdom gameplay so I might not be the best judge, but I really don't see any amazing features here that are currently missing, but that may just be me...

2) We still have marriage, it just needs improvement and I'm sure it will be improved. I don't expect the "give a lord a cow in exchange for his daughter" to last forever and to get most expensive armor as well. About claimants, I always ignored them and never cared for them much, they seemed bland to me when playing warband... Dialogue wasn't something all that interesting and I just skipped over them. And I really don't like playing as a vassal, starting my own kingdom from scratch always is more appealing to me so that's that. We also have rebellions now in towns which is cool.

So from what I'm reading what people find lacking is mostly in the kingdom management stuff... I'm not much into that but I'm sure there will be some improvements made to it and the late-game in general, even if those few mentioned features from warband won't be a thing it's not necessarily a bad thing, they can come up with better things even.
 

Rbtparker13

Regular
Didn't the devs say they're basically done with adding stuff to the game after the new terrain feature or is that just me talking out of my butt?
 

Bjorn The Hound

Grandmaster Knight
WBVCNWWF&SM&B
@AndrewArt Then, you and me are like oil and water in the way we approach the game.

I am a king, khan or sultan and I can't say where to go to my armies. It means I can't roleplay which is a huge let down.

How much someone likes you is something different from how they see you as a ruler.

I strongly disagree with you. I can not roleplay with the current state of Bannerlord, I don't feel I am a vassal, I don't feel I am a king which is something that priority first for any M&B game.
 

Eneas21

Recruit
Man, face the truth, yeah we hyped it, but they made false advertising, hid the true state of the game and on its release was really hell, they sold all the copies earning a **** ton of money (100M+) and didnt invest any of that back to deliver the game properly. Period, its a hit and run.

If the game was sold at 20-30€ I would agree its a fair price for the state of the game, but they went for 50€ and a finished game is 60€, and thats because they knew perfectly well most people are going to buy it, play two weeks and move on, they made their hit. And im not agaisnt them selling a lot, good for them, i wish them 100 billion euros for all I care, but you have to invest some of that back into the game so that your promises can be fulfilled even if launch was messy. And they havent done that, its been more than a year and they are still very slow, they made no significant hiring and even some MOD TEAMS are BIGGER THAN THIS GAME DEVELOPMENT TEAM. https://forums.taleworlds.com/index...okuhō-the-new-gekokujo-for-bannerlord.438620/

A bloody mod team has 105 members and they are making huge progress, and even one or two modders make absolutely astonishing mods like Freelancer, that actually lets you play as an Outlaw even with Hideouts, which is something TW advertised and didnt deliver. It is absolutely IMPOSSIBLE to defend Taleworlds AWFUL management. Whoever made all of these decisions should have been fired long ago and bring someone who knows how to run a company. Know your boundaries. And if they cant hire enough turkish developers they should have outsourced many things of development to other european studios, just hire another team and tell them, hey, create all these scenes (which is easy, just time consuming) and we will supervise your work with a translator. And they could have done that with a bunch of features.
 
Didn't the devs say they're basically done with adding stuff to the game after the new terrain feature or is that just me talking out of my butt?
I've never seen them say such a thing
@AndrewArt Then, you and me are like oil and water in the way we approach the game.

I am a king, khan or sultan and I can't say where to go to my armies. It means I can't roleplay which is a huge let down.

How much someone likes you is something different from how they see you as a ruler.

I strongly disagree with you. I can not roleplay with the current state of Bannerlord, I don't feel I am a vassal, I don't feel I am a king which is something that priority first for any M&B game.
that's fine, I can accept that we have different needs. I'm more of an early-game kind of player, I need more things to do as a vagabond, wanderer. Not big interests in leading big armies. Hopefully they'll improve those areas though, I am fine with better kingdom gameplay as long as there are more things to do late-game than constant war so that it doesn't become repetitive and boring. Maybe if it was improved it would be more interesting to me, so I do agree that late-game stuff are lacking atm.
 
Man, face the truth, yeah we hyped it, but they made false advertising, hid the true state of the game and on its release was really hell, they sold all the copies earning a **** ton of money (100M+) and didnt invest any of that back to deliver the game properly. Period, its a hit and run.

If the game was sold at 20-30€ I would agree its a fair price for the state of the game, but they went for 50€ and a finished game is 60€, and thats because they knew perfectly well most people are going to buy it, play two weeks and move on, they made their hit. And im not agaisnt them selling a lot, good for them, i wish them 100 billion euros for all I care, but you have to invest some of that back into the game so that your promises can be fulfilled even if launch was messy. And they havent done that, its been more than a year and they are still very slow, they made no significant hiring and even some MOD TEAMS are BIGGER THAN THIS GAME DEVELOPMENT TEAM. https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?threads/mount-blade-ii-shokuhō-the-new-gekokujo-for-bannerlord.438620/

A bloody mod team has 105 members and they are making huge progress, and even one or two modders make absolutely astonishing mods like Freelancer, that actually lets you play as an Outlaw even with Hideouts, which is something TW advertised and didnt deliver. It is absolutely IMPOSSIBLE to defend Taleworlds AWFUL management. Whoever made all of these decisions should have been fired long ago and bring someone who knows how to run a company. Know your boundaries. And if they cant hire enough turkish developers they should have outsourced many things of development to other european studios, just hire another team and tell them, hey, create all these scenes (which is easy, just time consuming) and we will supervise your work with a translator. And they could have done that with a bunch of features.
I do agree that management and efficiency are not TWs strong suits, but there are way way way way worse games out there for this kind of price... seriously, look at games, so much expensive garbage out there... Resident Evil 8 has 10-13 measly hours of mediocre gameplay and has 95% on steam? Voice acting and dialogue is so bad, story is garbage, graphics aren't amazing either. 0 attention to detail, game is taking place in europe - Romania and the most they did for immersion was put the currency in "LEI - romanian currency" and say "ciorba de legume" (vegetable soup) in romanian. Other than that NPCs are from fking America, they all talk american english, interior design of buildings is american... garbage effort, 0. 60 euro game and apparently people praise it when it's nothing special at all. Meanwhile Bannerlord has modding and so much more, it will offer thousands of hours of gameplay yet it's still more criticized than that pile of ****e...

I don't know about TW's hiring, that's their business. But we just can't say that they're not investing back into the game when they are still working on the game actively after 1 year. Even if slower than you would like. I want to see the final product first and only then I will think the harsh criticism it gets is justified. There are games that have been in early access for so many years it's not even funny. I can wait 1-2 years for this game to be in a great shape. And I'm talking strictly about early access, let's not use that "8 years of development" thing as I find it irrelevant at this point. Judge based on what they do from now until release. I think they'll do a good job if they keep the game in EA this year as well and keep working on it, which I hope they do
 
Didn't the devs say they're basically done with adding stuff to the game after the new terrain feature or is that just me talking out of my butt?
The terrain maps and the keep battles (in sieges) are the remaining major features. They'll do something about banners and they'll try more tweaks with the lord and kingdom AI, but other than further tweaks, balancing and bugfixes, they are indeed done.
If anyone says otherwise, it's wishful thinking unsupported by evidence such as dev statements and roadmaps. And most of all, Taleworlds' poor development record,
 

Eneas21

Recruit
I've never seen them say such a thing
I think its a conclusion that comes out when you realize what has been done in the last year, if TW wants to add significantly more features at this same pacing they need to make EA longer, making it 2 years or maybe more, if they are in a hurry and they want to release it by the end of this year then that would explain the "too complex" cards they have pulling out. So in that case they would just wrap it up, fix what has to be fixed, add two cool features and thats it, modders have to take the wheel from there.

Honestly I would gladly go for the early release and just fixing what its broken, and support modders since they can do a better job with a stable version of Bannerlord.
 

Eneas21

Recruit
I do agree that management and efficiency are not TWs strong suits, but there are way way way way worse games out there for this kind of price... seriously, look at games, so much expensive garbage out there... Resident Evil 8 has 10-13 measly hours of mediocre gameplay and has 95% on steam? Voice acting and dialogue is so bad, story is garbage, graphics aren't amazing either. 0 attention to detail, game is taking place in europe - Romania and the most they did for immersion was put the currency in "LEI - romanian currency" and say "ciorba de legume" (vegetable soup) in romanian. Other than that NPCs are from fking America, they all talk american english, interior design of buildings is american... garbage effort, 0. 60 euro game and apparently people praise it when it's nothing special at all. Meanwhile Bannerlord has modding and so much more, it will offer thousands of hours of gameplay yet it's still more criticized than that pile of ****e...
I agree that Resident Evil 8 is trash, but any resident evil fan knew that, its just another game for casual new comers, but they sold what they advertised and what they did, they did properly, no broken mechanics like in Bannerlord.

Bannerlord was sold at 50€ on March and the state of the game at that point was hell, I can tell you werent there, they were not selling a future Bannerlord like "Hey this game is trash right now but in a year it will be as good as 50€ so pay now the 50€ and see if MAYBE in a year it is actually worth its price." Just no, you sell what you have currently and the release should have been 20-30€, maybe now you could go for 30-40€ but thats now, not then. And modding didnt come until a few months later with the modding tools, before that there were mods but they were just quick fixes for their catastrophic EA release and you cant sell the game for 50€ and tell me its because of mods if on release there are none since there were no modding tools and they need time to make the mods, so no.

About the hiring, it is impossible to defend this horrifying mess of a development without even a roadmap for the EA, as Mexxico pointed out a long time ago they are truly going from feature to feature, improvising with only a few months of foresight, thats why they cant go for "too complex" ideas, they are afraid of the impact of a new feature for the AI, so they stick with the easy stuff, if they had sit down properly a long time ago and designed what mechanics do they want for the game they wouldnt be in this situation. They lack planning and resources, period.
 
I agree that Resident Evil 8 is trash, but any resident evil fan knew that, its just another game for casual new comers, but they sold what they advertised and what they did, they did properly, no broken mechanics like in Bannerlord.

Bannerlord was sold at 50€ on March and the state of the game at that point was hell, I can tell you werent there, they were not selling a future Bannerlord like "Hey this game is trash right now but in a year it will be as good as 50€ so pay now the 50€ and see if MAYBE in a year it is actually worth its price." Just no, you sell what you have currently and the release should have been 20-30€, maybe now you could go for 30-40€ but thats now, not then. And modding didnt come until a few months later with the modding tools, before that there were mods but they were just quick fixes for their catastrophic EA release and you cant sell the game for 50€ and tell me its because of mods if on release there are none since there were no modding tools and they need time to make the mods, so no.

About the hiring, it is impossible to defend this horrifying mess of a development without even a roadmap for the EA, as Mexxico pointed out a long time ago they are truly going from feature to feature, improvising with only a few months of foresight, thats why they cant go for "too complex" ideas, they are afraid of the impact of a new feature for the AI, so they stick with the easy stuff, if they had sit down properly a long time ago and designed what mechanics do they want for the game they wouldnt be in this situation. They lack planning and resources, period.
I was there, they were also giving a discount if you owned warband, were they not? 10% if I recall? They also mentioned to not buy it if you want a full game with all Bannerlord has to offer. I understand the hype was so big that many ignored that, I mean it's the first and only game I ever paid that much for but I thought it would be worth it so I did it. I don't know how other developers do it, but I remember some developers like the Rimworld dev saying that they will keep the price the same before and after full release, with maybe no sales either because they feel it would be unfair to those who paid full price if others got it cheaper (and they believed the game was worth the price), and they also put full price on an early access game basically. To me that makes sense, and if TW increased price based on how much they developed the game wouldn't that feel unfair to the ones who buy it at full release? They'd be like: why do I have to pay more? That would be like the necessary features and fixes of the game added were paid for like a DLC.

The way I see it, they took their time (a very long time), they built the engine, they did the stuff. They also knew they will keep developing the game until it's in a state they are happy with. And they put the price. I see nothing wrong here... They could have just done what many companies do and released warband 2 (with similar graphics and no new engine) and got more money for less effort. Like I stated, so many expensive games are way worse than this. And to buy or not the buy the game was always a choice. Damn, a guy even got refunded after hundred of hours put into the game, I mean what else can you ask for at this point...

About the other things and planning, yes, it's lacking, but that's just the way it is. No amount of flaming them for it can change that at this point I reckon
 

Kazzan

Count
M&BWBNW
The terrain maps and the keep battles (in sieges) are the remaining major features. They'll do something about banners and they'll try more tweaks with the lord and kingdom AI, but other than further tweaks, balancing and bugfixes, they are indeed done.
If anyone says otherwise, it's wishful thinking unsupported by evidence such as dev statements and roadmaps. And most of all, Taleworlds' poor development record,
I believe custom servers and a duel gamemode were also planned for release. Other than that, your statement is correct. No evidence of any plans beyond that.
 

relam10

Knight
My expectations were high around 2016. Once I realised how the game was being delayed over and over, started to smell weird.

Now Is a hate/love relation. QoL is on another level, they created an awesome template, but not even close to be a good game.

My expectations are just to polish that template improving AI, performance and making the game as friendly as possible to modders.

Taleworld clearly pointed that they wont make a game for hardcore players, the main goal is a battle simulator friendly to casual players. And this forum is plenty of Mount and blade lovers/hardcore players that want to play over and over the game, so I guess must be a minority.

According last sentence, we can just wait for modders, that are as hardcore as us, to create thoose wonderful total conversion mods.

I don't think taleworld can satisfy forum community according their priorities.
 

Gandamula

Sergeant at Arms
I never played the original warband, I have 400 hours in this game, I barley play a game for more than 50 hours, with a lot of mods of course, so for me it's the best game in many years,after my beloved Company of heroes 2.
 
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