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Were our expectations to high?

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This is a genuine question for all those who loved the Mount and Blade series. Yesterday i was going through the interwebs and found that in either 2014 or 2016, Paradox Interactive made the decision to allow their subsidiary companies to split. I think at first glance this wouldn't seem like such a big deal. Looking back now i can say that i think this was a terrible move by Paradox. While Paradox has some of the worst DLC policies in the industry they actively talk with the community and engage with people on forums (HOI4, CK3, City Skylines).

We were also given an amazing demo by TW in 2018 during gamescom that showed a siege actually going correct with ai using all the right pathfinding. Immeditaely my expectation for this game went through the roof as I was saying "if the game looks like this then 2020 must be better". And then you have youtubers like Resonant who during the initial release of dev blogs and staged gameplay hyped this game up for thousands of people only for it to fail at launch.

All in all our expectation for this game following the 2018 gamescom demo were extremely high. From the release of weekly dev blogs, to vides made by TW that showed gameplay and talked about upcoming features (some that never happened because they were too complex) and youtubers hyping the game up for simply views and subscribers aka Resonant.
 

WhyAmIHere

For nigh on 9 years of work? And ALL that marketing? No, they weren't too high.
 

danEN

Banned
WBM&BWF&SNWVC
no, considering the amount of stuff taleworld's advertised and then removed from the game they dug their own grave.

this game is below my lowest expectations
 
I think your example is even too far ahead. In 2016, we got the big two sieges from E3 and Gamescom respectively. Aside from just the sieges, we got information regarding sally outs and two 40 minute gameplays highlighting how dynamic the world was built to be.

Here we are in 2021, one year into EA with still very half-baked features and missing content. The game simply doesn't play the way the devs advertised. Still, there are absolutely people who had expectations over the roof, I suppose the great (yet sad) part is that those expectations will in fact become a reality as soon as modders really get their hands on modding tools.
 

vonbalt

Knight at Arms
WBNWVCM&B
Absolutely not, i was trimming down my expectations over the years on purpose, all i wanted was an improved warband just like the later was an improved M&B classic but the game has failed to deliver on that.

We have missing features, barely no work on immersion, horrible balance compared to warband, non-sense multiplayer choices when warband was so good in it and the list goes on.

Bannerlord does graphics and QoL features well, everything else was better in the previous games and a sequel (or prequel whatever) should build upon what it's good and beloved by the fans instead of axing anything they can't fit into boring menus.
 

Eneas21

Recruit
I think everyone expected Bannerlord to learn from Warband mods and go deeper, since thats what Warband mods do. Instead they went for a broader audience actually removing depth from the original Warband standard, and since they had a pretty loyal and hyped fanbase (myself included) we promoted and hyped the game through memes on 9gag and everywhere, then the release came and it was a disaster.

I was a beta tester playing MP everyday and I was always asking myself why did we keep playing captain mode over and over, its not like they needed all that testing of months fighting just captain mode or skirmish to get data on their MP issues. They could have opened the beta for the SP and we could have started helping them develop the game, but they went rogue, silent about the real state of the SP and released it on EA on March to make all the cash and boy did they sell, and all reviews where like "8.5, its not there yet but it will be good".

When I realized of that shady business practice and they didnt seem to be receptive of suggestions on forums over months thats when I lost my faith in the company, and i was a hardcore defender of this game. Now im bitter that they keep pulling the "too complex" card when modders are doing exactly what seems to be too complex for professionals, they should have hired an army of devs or even another studio the moment they sold all those copies to actually manage to deliver a good game, instead we keep getting new scenes where theres pretty much nothing to do on them, they should be focusing on mechanics and gameplay where it seems they are lacking devs, it truly looks like its just like four guys doing all the important stuff.
 

vonbalt

Knight at Arms
WBNWVCM&B
When I realized of that shady business practice and they didnt seem to be receptive of suggestions on forums over months thats when I lost my faith in the company, and i was a hardcore defender of this game.
That describes exactly many of us here in the forums, just look at my account history, i was white-knighting the game for months after EA release saying "just give them time, i'm sure they'll deliver", that was until they started throwing the "our vision" and "too complex" cards to anything suggested on the forums and then i lost hope.

Why did they said they wanted the community involved to improve the game if 99,99% of suggestions on how to improve things are going to be ignored? they have their "vision" for the game and it's more than clear now that it's completely the contrary of what the community expected from them.

Even Reddit which has always been a haven of white-knights for bannerlord is bashing the development of the game and saying how frustrated they are with it daily.
 
That describes exactly many of us here in the forums, just look at my account history, i was white-knighting the game for months after EA release saying "just give them time, i'm sure they'll deliver", that was until they started throwing the "our vision" and "too complex" cards to anything suggested on the forums and then i lost hope.

Why did they said they wanted the community involved to improve the game if 99,99% of suggestions on how to improve things are going to be ignored? they have their "vision" for the game and it's more than clear now that it's completely the contrary of what the community expected from them.

Even Reddit which has always been a haven of white-knights for bannerlord is bashing the development of the game and saying how frustrated they are with it daily.
The bannerlord sub reddit is where all the white knights gather still.....
 
Considering games and sequels in general, yeah I guess expectations were too high.
But everything they ever sowed on dev blogs demos was very impressive and desirable, so hmmmmm
It's okay though, Bannerlord is good enough and mods will eventual add the stuff we missed out on and more! 🌈
 

Rbtparker13

Regular
I didn’t even know this game existed until the week before release. So I basically had no expectations. I just expected a better warband with more interactions with lords and with the world around you, bigger battles, better combat system, and more modding capability that’s easier to use.

And so far. Only 1 of those things are true. Though I can’t really speak for modders. The massive battles that all end within 5 minutes somehow. Even then I don’t get the same feel as in warband. Probably because it goes too fast and before you think about your next decision you probably won by then.
 

Maggot Toes

Veteran
Coming from the person who commonly uses hyperbole and says such things as this is an alpha release, yeah I think your expectations were a bit high.

Mods can you just unban so the mute function works again for me?
 

Riffraff99

Veteran
No, the expectations where at the level TW wanted them.
Today we know that waiting for a game 8 years isnt a good sign of developement, but back then we all had the hope they would develope the best out of it wich is possible.

The smelling criticism they get are fair.
 
Well, when you tell people about what's in the game and their response is a funny look followed by "Isn't that the bare minimum you'd except from a game like that?"
Makes me say no, for the most part expectations were reasonable.
 

Poddicus

Squire
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
Its Taleworlds' own fault that our expectations were high
And its paid off for them because most of their playerbase now is people who've never touched a Mount & Blade game before and think its the best **** to ever be on steam
 

Gambles

Sergeant at Arms
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
On the contrary, I think the game this far has failed to meet even the lowest expectations pre-launch and even months in when so many were speculating the pace and features to be added.
 

Aurex

Regular
WB
This is a genuine question for all those who loved the Mount and Blade series. Yesterday i was going through the interwebs and found that in either 2014 or 2016, Paradox Interactive made the decision to allow their subsidiary companies to split. I think at first glance this wouldn't seem like such a big deal. Looking back now i can say that i think this was a terrible move by Paradox. While Paradox has some of the worst DLC policies in the industry they actively talk with the community and engage with people on forums (HOI4, CK3, City Skylines).

We were also given an amazing demo by TW in 2018 during gamescom that showed a siege actually going correct with ai using all the right pathfinding. Immeditaely my expectation for this game went through the roof as I was saying "if the game looks like this then 2020 must be better". And then you have youtubers like Resonant who during the initial release of dev blogs and staged gameplay hyped this game up for thousands of people only for it to fail at launch.

All in all our expectation for this game following the 2018 gamescom demo were extremely high. From the release of weekly dev blogs, to vides made by TW that showed gameplay and talked about upcoming features (some that never happened because they were too complex) and youtubers hyping the game up for simply views and subscribers aka Resonant.
I do not think so, no.
There was huge hype (mostly of which was fabricated through bribed youtubers and false promises and advertising) on top of more than eight years between the first announcement and the release.
Considering the triple-A price and all that I mentioned above, this game doesn't just meet my expectations - it's below what I would have thought a pre-alpha in 2015 would have looked and played like. It's literally a fancier Warband gutted of everything that made Warband special, albeit flawed.
Usually I'm your average: "Hey mate, that's just an opinion" kind of guy, but in this case I'll just say this.
If you find Bannerlord is in any way, shape or form a good, almost "finished" product... then you're probably below 85. Sorry.
 
The only thing Bannerlord does better than warband is stick cattle into inventory.

That's it.

It's a huge fail for a follow up. Give us the game that was advertised.
 

froggyluv

Grandmaster Knight
NW
I think everyone expected Bannerlord to learn from Warband mods and go deeper, since thats what Warband mods do. Instead they went for a broader audience actually removing depth from the original Warband standard, and since they had a pretty loyal and hyped fanbase (myself included) we promoted and hyped the game through memes on 9gag and everywhere, then the release came and it was a disaster.

I was a beta tester playing MP everyday and I was always asking myself why did we keep playing captain mode over and over, its not like they needed all that testing of months fighting just captain mode or skirmish to get data on their MP issues. They could have opened the beta for the SP and we could have started helping them develop the game, but they went rogue, silent about the real state of the SP and released it on EA on March to make all the cash and boy did they sell, and all reviews where like "8.5, its not there yet but it will be good".

When I realized of that shady business practice and they didnt seem to be receptive of suggestions on forums over months thats when I lost my faith in the company, and i was a hardcore defender of this game. Now im bitter that they keep pulling the "too complex" card when modders are doing exactly what seems to be too complex for professionals, they should have hired an army of devs or even another studio the moment they sold all those copies to actually manage to deliver a good game, instead we keep getting new scenes where theres pretty much nothing to do on them, they should be focusing on mechanics and gameplay where it seems they are lacking devs, it truly looks like its just like four guys doing all the important stuff.

+1 on everything said here
 
You could have expected that the game would not be great, since no game emerging from development hell is great.
However, the devblogs showed us a decent looking game with a few features that you could look forward to, like clans, siege engines and perks (but not castle building).
It turned out that the many basic problems of the game were swept under the rug and hidden for the purpose of PR and sales. It was Callum that made Taleworllds the millions and caused people who bought into the EA to feel cheated, and, now, even hostile to Taleworlds. I can't understand why anyone would justify this kind of behavior. The expectations were set by Taleworlds who then under-delivered and is now justifiably under fire.
I think everyone expected Bannerlord to learn from Warband mods and go deeper, since thats what Warband mods do.
That would have been the ideal scenario, but I didn't expect even that, since they never looked interested in what mods are doing better.
 
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