Weapon Modes

[demoman_chaos]

The X key is the default key that changes weapon modes, like an axe from polearm to 2 handed.I also noticed the warhammer and several other weapons have a different kind of head on the other side (like a pick on the other side of the hammer). Why not use the X key to toggle between the hammer side and the pick side?

Also with spears, why not toggle between a grip near the back of the spear and one in the middle? With a shield you can only stab with a spear, and if someone is close you can't do any damage because your spear is too long to get enough speed to do damage. The two grips would be to toggle between long range attacks and for when the enemy is in your face. Another idea is to toggle between the underarm grip near the back of the spear and an overarm grip near the middle. The overarm would be for close combat and could be more like an attack from the top while the underarm strike would stay the same.

 

[SwadianGrunt]

Seconded... Great idea hope it's implemented.

 

[someboddy]

The pick flipping sounds cool, but I'm against the spear grip changing. Melee weapon ranges is a very important key of the game balance and tactics. Having a weapon which is useful at both short and long melee range would be a serious gamebraker. Not only you won't have to use up two weapon slots to gain effectiveness in all melee ranges - you also get the ability to change between long range and close range modes so much faster.

If something like this is implemented, the spears who use it should have some serious penalty to both modes.

 

[L-J-F]

The pick flipping sounds cool, but I'm against the spear grip changing. Melee weapon ranges is a very important key of the game balance and tactics. Having a weapon which is useful at both short and long melee range would be a serious gamebraker. Not only you won't have to use up two weapon slots to gain effectiveness in all melee ranges - you also get the ability to change between long range and close range modes so much faster.

If something like this is implemented, the spears who use it should have some serious penalty to both modes.

The game must already be broken because I can think of plenty of weapons that do just that, ie: two handed swords, axes, glaives, spears without shields etc. Spears with shields already have the serious penalty of being almost useless.

 

[SwadianGrunt]

The pick flipping sounds cool, but I'm against the spear grip changing. Melee weapon ranges is a very important key of the game balance and tactics. Having a weapon which is useful at both short and long melee range would be a serious gamebraker. Not only you won't have to use up two weapon slots to gain effectiveness in all melee ranges - you also get the ability to change between long range and close range modes so much faster.

If something like this is implemented, the spears who use it should have some serious penalty to both modes.

Say this is a spear (Really ****  I know but you get the point):
wouldn't holding it                                                                                        Here:
                                                                                                                        \/                                                      |\
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------\
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------/
Shorten the range  compared to holding it Here:/\                                                                                                    |/
?
The first one being the alternate and the second being default? So it would shorten spear length but give you the option to attack from above.
But I'm with both someboddy and the OP on the Hammer thing.

 

[someboddy]

The game must already be broken because I can think of plenty of weapons that do just that, ie: two handed swords, axes, glaives, spears without shields etc. Spears with shields already have the serious penalty of being almost useless.

2H have shorter range than polearms - they are good for medium melee range, since 1H - which are good for short melee range - can easily beat them if you get close enough due to their superior speed.

It's true that polearms without shields can use their swinging attacks to hit at medium melee range(they are useless at close melee range), but those attacks are really weak compared to their thrusts.

Spears with shields are only useless at close and medium melee ranges - they are quite effective at long melee range. Thing is, unless you use your army well you ain't gonna get too much of long melee range opportunities. If you try to approach the enemy alone(unless you're mounted, but that's a different story) they will just charge at you - and you can't backpedal faster than they can run forward unless you have low encumbrance and high athletics.

If you use your army properly spears with shields can be very useful, since not all nearby enemy forces concentrate on you. This allows you to attack form long melee range - like behind a shield wall, or from the second place of a charge into a castle.

Say this is a spear (Really ****  I know but you get the point):
wouldn't holding it                                                                                        Here:
                                                                                                                        \/                                                      |\
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------\
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------/
Shorten the range  compared to holding it Here:/\                                                                                                    |/
?
The first one being the alternate and the second being default? So it would shorten spear length but give you the option to attack from above.

I never said it was not realistic - what I say is that it's unbalanced.

 

[SwadianGrunt]

you also get the ability to change between long range and close range modes so much faster.

You said this & if you think about it, your only shortening the range of the spear because it is by default long range so whats the problem? Shortening an enemies range?
Also your saying it would be unbalanced but clearly if you were to change grip on a spear it would take atleast 2 or 3 seconds minimum enough time for you to either
A.Get a hit on your opponent.
or
B.Realise there attacking from that specific direction and block accordingly.

And you would also be able to tell which way someone had the spear in the way there holding it and also block accordingly.

 

[someboddy]

2-3 seconds? Do you seriously think that changing the grip takes as much time as putting your weapon on your back/in it's scabbard and taking out new one?

 

[SwadianGrunt]

2-3 seconds? Do you seriously think that changing the grip takes as much time as putting your weapon on your back/in it's scabbard and taking out new one?

If It's a long enough spear and you have a Shield in the other hand you could either
a.Do it with one hand but risk dropping it or
b.you could pass your hand through the strap on your shield hold onto the spear and move your right hand.
Maybe it's closer to 1-2 seconds.

 

[someboddy]

Realism-wise - you are correct. But changing weapons in M&B takes 2-3 seconds - if that was realistic it should take at least 10 seconds, seeing you have to secure your previous weapon, that you probably have a cumbersome armor, and that at least one of the weapons involved in the swap is fairly large weapon.

No matter if you want to base your timing on realism or gameplay-balancing - changing your weapon should take considerable much longer than changing your grip.