Weapon Editing

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RR_Raptor65

Knight
Three questions:

1: Can you edit weapon stats? I wanna change the arming sword to thrust only.

2: Are fan made weapons/armour models possible? If not a whole new armour or weapon, a replacement? I have a Pompeii Gladius I made in HL2 that I would love to put in. Along with a rather large collection of other swords. I would be more than happy to share my creations with everyone else.

3: Do the existing meshes have smoothing groups? Everything would look so much better if they had smoothing groups, look at my Gladius above.

I poked around with the search and wasn't able to find a similar topic, but if this has been discussed before, just point me to the thread.
I just love to mess around with game models. For future reference, I use Milkshape 1.7.4 (latest).

On another note, I have a bunch of optimized and edited textures if anyone wants to check em out.
 
Looks pretty good.

gladius
gladius.jpg


spatha
ams0013spatha-a.jpg


Could go either way really.
 
It is not that the weapon itself is bad at all, and both would be great (as soon as short swords are added to the game). But the spatha had a slightly slimmer blade (because it would be too heavy otherwise), and the sword he has made is rather slim and long.

Btw, a nice Mainz gladius would look cool.
 
I think that's a bit too long....gladius' way weigh too much. You could never fight like a jedi with one of those babies.
 
Its the right size, that picture doesn't show it that well, it just looks so prety in it :grin:

Heres an unrendered side view:
Pic

And just for fun, heres a Hand Gonne.

I'm gonna make a Fulham and a Mainz soon, more than likely a spatha too, and a Pugio to fill the gap. I just haven't gotten around to it because I'm working on my real world Scutum, plus a hinge on my Lorica tore out and I gotta make another one. But Gladii don't weigh much, the Mainz and Fulham are only around 2 pounds, and the Pompeii is just over 1 pound. But the Mainz has the worst balance, 4" inches from the guard, to the best balance in the Pompeii at 3" 3/4 of an inch from the guard. This is based on the Gladii from Albion Armourers, which are discontinued and being remade in their 'Next Generation' line. But either way, ya just sit behind your scutum and wait for an opening to stick em in the gut.

Anyway, lookin forward to making some arms and armour.
(Oh and Nairagorn, that spatha is a late period practice sword of aluminum, its an Albion sword)
 
Hmmm.... I don't know much about balance, but I take it the best balance for a fast, maneuverable, or a thusting weapon would be far back, at the guard more or less. So 4'' would be quite far out. Thought they were better balanced than that.

But the spatha, isn't it worse balanced? I mean it is longer and slightly heavier, while retaining the same handle.

Also, I thought the Mainz was about the same weight as the Pompeii, they are after all closely related. But I take it those numbers you gave us weren't he aluminium versions right?

Anyway, the Pompeii should have something like these stats for the game: 30 piercing, 17 cut, 105 speed, 60 reach and can block. Meaning it is a deadly weapon close in if you can get a thrust in (especially since peircing halves the effect of armour), but besides that it would rather bad.

Where is nox? I think this should interest him.
 
Balance is the distance from the guard in which you can balance the sword on something (A good way is to lay it across your wrist and find the balance that way). Ideally, any sword should have a balance RIGHT at the guard. The thing is, this is very hard to achieve, its possible to convert any sword to a perfect balance, you just make the pommel bigger, but that means more weight, so the perfect all around sword, doesn't have the perfect balace. I know... confusing eh?
Ontop of the PoB (Point of Balance) theres the CoP (Center of Percussion). The CoP is the point where the sword takes the least amount of shock from a hit, and does the most damage, you can find the CoP on a sword by hitting the side of the pommel and watching the blade whobble, the spot that whobbles the least is the CoP, this is usually a few inches from the tip.

The Spatha doesn't need to be balanced, it was intended for cavalry only, they needed the reach that a Gladius couldn't provide on horseback, basicly, you just let it hang out to the side and swing it, very deadly. The lance was still the main weapon for Roman Cavaly, but in close quarters they would have dropped it in favour of the Spatha.

The Mainz has larger hilt components and the blade has a little more heft due to its leaf shape, the leaf is also what gives it the 4 inch PoB. CoP in this game doesn't really matter unless you wanna change the damage slighty by where the blade impacts a victim, more work than necessary. And yes, the numbers I gave you were the live 5160 carbon steel (Sharpened and fully functional swords) 'First Generation' Gladii. I don't know the specs on the Spathas, that'll have to wait till the Next Gen Spatha come out :grin:
The new Gladii/Spatha will be 1075 carbon steel, 5160 is harder and more brittle than 1075, a sword needs that degree of softness to absorb as much shock as possible, but also return to its original shape and hold an edge.

Those stats look good, I'd take the cut up a little more, no Gladii is a weakling in that department, the reach could go to 65-70 too. I'll have to look into adding other weapons like the Falx and Pilum. Some Greek arms and armour would be a good idea too, But now I'm getting ahead of myself :razz:
 
Well I knew what balance in itself was, I just have never done anything along these lines, so what good balance was was only a guess on my behalf. :smile:

It is interesting that the spatha began to enter infantry units in the 3rd century, especially since it is not that well balanced.
But I can easily imagine badly balanced could still be good, such as great swords like the greek machaira and kopis, and the spanish falcata. Bad balance would give a more vicious cut.

But what I have seen of the Mainz isn't that it was like a leaf, like the older roman swords and the straight greek swords. What I have seen was more the point beginning about one third down from the point (ehh circular speak here) then gently closing in until there was a nice tapered point, perfect for punching through armour.

Given how powerful the gladius is with teh stats I have given it, I doubt there is much need for upping the cutting. It is actually quite high, compared to how other more balanced weapons are only slightly better.
And while I know the gladius could certainly cut, its range and the doctrinal behavious of legionaries in battle. Thus it is very much a thrusting weapon, with a capable cut if you can get to use it.
 
Ah, I see what your saying. But in truth, the Mainz was indeed a leaf blade, more than likely a captured design from the Spanish, on that note, there are actually 4 Gladii, the fourth being the Hispaniensis, a sort of precursor to the Mainz, their pretty rough weapons, no two are exactly alike apparently, some are described as being leaf, subtle leaf, or parallel edges, short tips to really long tips, or different lengths alltogether. Its thought the hilt was wood, and the one I've seen at Legio XX had a hilt similar to a Spatha.
 
Nairagorn said:
Looks pretty good.

gladius
gladius.jpg


spatha
ams0013spatha-a.jpg


Could go either way really.

yah i agree. the sword has features of both weapons. and who realy cares hwta it looks like? as long as he likes it and wants to put it into the game more power to him.
 
Maggot7588: please don't necro old threads in the mod discussion area unless you really really have something to add. This one is over a year old (not the first such you've necroed) and you had nothing useful to add to it.
 
haha didnt see the date at first. and i was like...WTF raptor knows this, AN IMPOSTER????...but noooo it was just an old thread :razz:
fun to see everyone starts out not knowing everything.
 
Janus said:
Maggot7588: please don't necro old threads in the mod discussion area unless you really really have something to add. This one is over a year old (not the first such you've necroed) and you had nothing useful to add to it.

first of all yes i didnt notice the date. second of all im pretty new to M&B and im learning all this neat stuff. thirdly every little bit of infermation counts so i wouldnt say i didnt add anything usefull. buto nce again i opoligize and it wont happen again.
 
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