Weapon Durability?

[ManStarr]

it's an awesome idea but the weapons would have to take a TON of damage.

if they break too soon you'd be screwed out of winning when outnumbered because they'd just block until your weapon broke.

however, being able to bust 6 metal shields with nothing happening to your weapon is just dumb.

maybe the weapons could degrade to a point of minimum damage?  say, a sword starts with doing 25 damage but after degrading to it's weakest point drop down to.. 10 damage

 

[DuckSauce]

How about putting weapons in categories of "small" and "big" if a "small" weapon has blocked a hit or two from a "big" weapon that has over x speed bonus then it will break.

So that means only if the said speed bonus is applied to the hit and it could take a hit or two before it would actually break..
Anyway the speed bonus would have to be over 100% or else it would disadvantage the sword users too much, so basically if someone comes at you with a large axe on a horse and swings it exactly right and gets 100% speed bonus or more then you'd think you'd inflict some sort of damage on the sword.

I agree with others though, in general you don't live long enough to really worry about this.

P.S I'm not in the warband beta, so I'm not sure how likely it is that someone is gonna charge an non shield infantry with a large axe.

 

[ManStarr]

I like ducksauce's idea..   

Nobody in real life would try, or be able to, block a warhammer with a shortsword, or any sword really. 
Especially not a warhammer swung from a charging horse.

They can't really make a weapon unblockable like that, but having a chance of the weapon used to block breaking or being damaged in some way makes sense.

...they need to add dodging haha.

 

[The Bowman]

It would take like 200 swings on a rock to break a sword.
so, no

True

 

[DuckSauce]

...they need to add dodging haha.

how would you dodge a horse charging straight at ya though? I suppose you could throw yourself aside, but you'd form an easy target to... well everything, including the horse itself if the rider steers appropriatly

It would give shields an extra meaning.
One thing that could also be considered is to not allow a fully succesfull block on above mention case, basically, the damage of the impact of a strong weapon with a high speed bonus vs a small weapon would cause "arm damage" I mean, if you get shot in the arm with an arrow in M&B... does it hurt? I would assume it does lol, now imagine trying to block a warhammer from horseback with just a small sword. In my amateurish opinion I'd suppose you'd practically break your arm from the sheer impact(and would lose the sword but.. hey this a game, losing the sword in one hit would suck) so maybe normal damage could be applied and then the weapon will apply an additional "soaking" of the damage on top of that. Basicallyl making the sword act like armor, you'd be able to avoid the full damage of the swing and instead of 100 damage maybe get 10? Just an example.

Anyway that'd mean no losing of the weapon, which means the player can still fight and yada yada but can't just block something large at high speed with just a small weapon creating an invincble shield.

Then there also remains the choice: Should the player be able to die from the "arm damage" e.g if he gets 10 hp damage(which was gonna be 100) and has 1 hp, or would that be annoying? After all you did block the hit! It'd be annoying as **** for a newbie to see someone coming at him, he is succesfull in blocking him, but then dies anyway. Maybe instead of dying the player starts losing points in battle related attributes and skills?
So if the player gets 10 damage and has 1 hp, he loses 1 point in a skill or attribute, but will remain alive, if he still has 11 hp and receives 10 damage from the attack then he gets no penalty aside from the health loss.

Ofcourse, like I said before, I'm not part of the M&B Warband beta, so maybe horses can still effectively be used to run over the enemy?
Example, the player can now block a strong with no penalty if his health is 1 hp, but since the player can't stop the horse(unless he has a polearm) the rider could just ride the player over I guess? Possibly switch to a lance if available, stab at the player so he's forced to block, then run him over. Voila battle won

 

[ScientiaExcelsa]

I think this sort of thing would be asking for trouble in MP.  Too hard to balance.  However, it would be an awesome feature for an SP mod, in which you would constantly have to have your favorite weapon reforged or replaced.  Combined with an upgrade system for weapons, it would add a stronger attachment to your trusty sword.  But, like I said, leave it to the modders.

 

[Regendur]

I would say that it's only good for SP for long, extensive use of a weapon. In MP, I'm sorry, but no. But as Scientia said, leave it to the modders.

 

[Night Ninja]

I like ducksauce's idea..   

Nobody in real life would try, or be able to, block a warhammer with a shortsword, or any sword really. 
Especially not a warhammer swung from a charging horse.

They can't really make a weapon unblockable like that, but having a chance of the weapon used to block breaking or being damaged in some way makes sense.

...they need to add dodging haha.

Actually, you can. Most of the time they wouldn't block though, it's a bloody inefficient way of doing things. It takes a lot less energy to redirect a blow than to stand there and take it like a goofy bastard.

 

[Wu-long]

I like ducksauce's idea..   

Nobody in real life would try, or be able to, block a warhammer with a shortsword, or any sword really. 
Especially not a warhammer swung from a charging horse.

They can't really make a weapon unblockable like that, but having a chance of the weapon used to block breaking or being damaged in some way makes sense.

...they need to add dodging haha.

Actually, you can. Most of the time they wouldn't block though, it's a bloody inefficient way of doing things. It takes a lot less energy to redirect a blow than to stand there and take it like a goofy bastard.

You know your right ^^

Its just that the impact is quite strong you would go back wards by a ton maybe add the stun animation to that? when you block hammers? from charging horse?

 

[scythe111]

...they need to add dodging haha.

how would you dodge a horse charging straight at ya though? I suppose you could throw yourself aside, but you'd form an easy target to... well everything, including the horse itself if the rider steers appropriatly

It would give shields an extra meaning.
One thing that could also be considered is to not allow a fully succesfull block on above mention case, basically, the damage of the impact of a strong weapon with a high speed bonus vs a small weapon would cause "arm damage" I mean, if you get shot in the arm with an arrow in M&B... does it hurt? I would assume it does lol, now imagine trying to block a warhammer from horseback with just a small sword. In my amateurish opinion I'd suppose you'd practically break your arm from the sheer impact(and would lose the sword but.. hey this a game, losing the sword in one hit would suck) so maybe normal damage could be applied and then the weapon will apply an additional "soaking" of the damage on top of that. Basicallyl making the sword act like armor, you'd be able to avoid the full damage of the swing and instead of 100 damage maybe get 10? Just an example.

Anyway that'd mean no losing of the weapon, which means the player can still fight and yada yada but can't just block something large at high speed with just a small weapon creating an invincble shield.

Then there also remains the choice: Should the player be able to die from the "arm damage" e.g if he gets 10 hp damage(which was gonna be 100) and has 1 hp, or would that be annoying? After all you did block the hit! It'd be annoying as **** for a newbie to see someone coming at him, he is succesfull in blocking him, but then dies anyway. Maybe instead of dying the player starts losing points in battle related attributes and skills?
So if the player gets 10 damage and has 1 hp, he loses 1 point in a skill or attribute, but will remain alive, if he still has 11 hp and receives 10 damage from the attack then he gets no penalty aside from the health loss.

Ofcourse, like I said before, I'm not part of the M&B Warband beta, so maybe horses can still effectively be used to run over the enemy?
Example, the player can now block a strong with no penalty if his health is 1 hp, but since the player can't stop the horse(unless he has a polearm) the rider could just ride the player over I guess? Possibly switch to a lance if available, stab at the player so he's forced to block, then run him over. Voila battle won

this is brilliant. this would give heavy, slow, minimal reach weapons like the war hammer usability.

think about it like the resistance on a shield. if you have a short sword, your resistance is low. if you have a bastard sword, it's higher, and so on. the amount of damage done would be directly related to "weight" if you will, or damage done minus the resistance of the weapon. that sounds a little overpowered, but maybe decrease speed for war hammers if this was implemented to even things out. i'm sick of swinging a bardiche from full gallop to be parried. just rediculous.

 

[ares007]

You're facing a knight in heavy steel armor, and you both swing and bash at each other with your swords. In the end, it boils down to an endurance test. The sharpness of your blade means nothing because you're swinging it against resilient steel, and your razor edge eventually grows dull. Your fine slicing and dicing weapon has become essentially a club, and your only lethal option is thrusting into a weak spot in your enemy's armor.

You got the part right about fully armoured fighting being more about thrusting. However, the [European] 2-edged sword was never used anything like a club except in a particular technique that uses the cross and pummel to deliver a blunt blow. If your edge would get bashed up and such and didn't do any significant damage, why should you even waste your energy trying? I would focus my energy on getting a thrust in.

Though, that is against plate armor. A good longsword (or even arming sword) can cut chainmail and can definitely thrust through it. It takes a good stroke and proper technique, but a good sword will do it.

MnB doesn't allow for a good thrusting fight with half-swording and everything, so I think it makes better for gameplay to have swords to cutting armor. (however there isn't good plate armor in multiplayer)

Maybe that's what you were trying to say  But just in case, I wanted to clarify 

It holds a razor-sharp edge

Another misconception for European double-edged swords. The edge of a longsword or arming sword was certainly sharp enough to make a cut or to inflict a terrible wound when swung, but it wasn't so sharp that you couldn't grab ahold of it with a good grip. The cross-section of the edge was actually shaped similar to the cross-section of a pecan (i.e. more rounded). This was to help protect the edge but also to allow a swordsman to half-sword without fear of his hand being cut. Don't let the poorly researched (and poorly balanced) Cold Steel replicas fool you.

Nobody in real life would try, or be able to, block a warhammer with a shortsword, or any sword really.
Especially not a warhammer swung from a charging horse.

well, in foot combat, a shortsword could fairly easily bind with the ridiculous maul thing in MnB. Then the man holding the hammer would probably do better to let go of his ridiculous "weapon" in an attempt perhaps disarm or wrestle with the swordsman. Of course, swung from a horse... that's a different story 

this is brilliant. this would give heavy, slow, minimal reach weapons like the war hammer usability.

I think that if they had better armor in the game, the hammers would be more usable. The current 2-handed hammer is actually kind of ridiculous though. A proper warhammer would look much more like the military pick does.


gradually degrading damage output might be a good idea though (though the thrust should not degrade much if at all). It would encourage people to pick and choose their strikes more carefully. I don't know; maybe it would slow melee down.

 

[ManStarr]

  The arm damage is a great idea for the whole blocking giant weapons with a dagger thing..

attribute loss is good, but how sick would broken bones be? and BATTLE SURGEONS?!   
  ...not even joking.  Would be especially interesting with the "two people on a horse" idea I saw a few days ago..
but then I suppose the whole game would turn into "try to get a hit in, but run away if they hit you once"

 

[EvolutiveBrain]

隐藏

I think it would be better to have weapon quality deteriorate rather than have weapons eventually break.

Typically, a sword wouldn't break, but the edge would grow dull making its offensive capability limited. Of course, thrusting would pretty much not deteriorate.

Who knows. I think that weapons should at least be able to be knocked out of your hand with a low chance or something. Maybe some kind of disarming feature?

Axes and polearms can break though in real life.

I totally agree with you.

 

[ScientiaExcelsa]

  The arm damage is a great idea for the whole blocking giant weapons with a dagger thing..

attribute loss is good, but how sick would broken bones be? and BATTLE SURGEONS?!   
  ...not even joking.  Would be especially interesting with the "two people on a horse" idea I saw a few days ago..
but then I suppose the whole game would turn into "try to get a hit in, but run away if they hit you once"

Most people get pretty flammable when people suggest any sort of HP recovery around here, be it magic or medical.  It's one of the things people love about the game: you risk more.  Just a heads-up .

 

[Wu-long]

It seems as if plate amour is made to counter slashes am i correct?

 

[ManStarr]

yeah, I'm not talking about healing hp, because I love that about the game too.  Like I said before, I hate games with healing because all anyone ever does is run.

I mean a broken bone system, somehow set up so it's generally more effective to defend yourself rather than run away.  I'm thinking since the game's all about numbers, having two people off the battlefield for a prolonged period of time (the injured+the surgeon) would be a big disadvantage

plus, how cool would having a large scale battle going on into the night, where both sides split apart to fix up their wounded?  I haven't played it at all yet so I don't know if there's respawning because that would kind of ruin the idea...  but I'm thinking how epic it would be to survive the battle with a broken arm and a head injury haha.  Or winning with 20 beat up and damaged guys against a group of fresh soldiers.

 

[ares007]

It seems as if plate amour is made to counter slashes am i correct?

I believe so. There have also been tests that show a good longbow and arrow could only penetrate good plate armor within a very short range (I don't want to say a number because I don't trust my memory right now  )

To deal with plate armor, a knight would "half-sword" his longsword (hold the hilt with one hand and the blade with the other) to get better tip control and try to thrust into less protected areas (like the groin, face, throat, armpits, and etc). This would typically involve a lot of grappling. 

plus, how cool would having a large scale battle going on into the night, where both sides split apart to fix up their wounded?  I haven't played it at all yet so I don't know if there's respawning because that would kind of ruin the idea...  but I'm thinking how epic it would be to survive the battle with a broken arm and a head injury haha.  Or winning with 20 beat up and damaged guys against a group of fresh soldiers.

This would certainly be interesting and would increase the immersion. However, I kind of doubt the devs are going to do something like that, so maybe it could be a mod. But who knows? Having troops injured instead of killed was definitely an important part of the SP game, so it might be interesting to see it somehow in the multiplayer.

 

[Night Ninja]

Its just that the impact is quite strong you would go back wards by a ton maybe add the stun animation to that? when you block hammers? from charging horse?

No, see, with proper technique and form it's quite possible to defend yourself against a full-force swing by a rather large dude. The key is to redirect, not to take the force of the blow. It doesn't matter how hard he's hitting if the majority of the energy in his strike is going nowhere.

 

[Wu-long]

Its just that the impact is quite strong you would go back wards by a ton maybe add the stun animation to that? when you block hammers? from charging horse?

No, see, with proper technique and form it's quite possible to defend yourself against a full-force swing by a rather large dude. The key is to redirect, not to take the force of the blow. It doesn't matter how hard he's hitting if the majority of the energy in his strike is going nowhere.

We dont really have parry atm unless you do it manually but even so its a tad hard with being infantry vrs horsemen fights

 

[kingofnoobia]

I dislike the idea of breaking weapons, but if you do it, weapons should have separate stats for damage done to own weapon while attacking and damage done to own weapon while defending.

A sword would be very hard to break by parrying with it. It will get damaged quicklier if you are attacking with it yourself. Axes should break rather easily when parrying because of the wood hilt. However, the axe will almost never break by attacking with it. A lance couched from horseback should break immediately.

A sword would also have a very high resistance: a lot of damage needs to be done before the sword will actually get damaged.

But I still hate the idea, but I wouldn't hate it as much if the above is implemented. More weapon slots would also be required.

Especially for multiplayer I detest the idea. For single it is acceptable. Not fun, but acceptable.