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[WBMM] Discussion & Suggestions

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kenshiro

Sergeant at Arms
I mean it's always the same few guys crying about getting insulted and ****. I was called a nazi and so on several times and I didn't complain on the forums either. if you take stuff like that personal you should just not play multiplayer games.
Nono no, stop this bull**** reasoning of taking insults personal. If an unknown person calls my mother a whore or insults me, he ends up with a broken nose. Stop justifying people being idiots or being bigots just because we are in the internet. It shouldn’t happen and that’s it.
 

huN

Master Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
Just because a few of you don't mind being called nazis or retards it doesn't mean this kind of behavior is normal and nothing should be done against it. Personally, i've never been a target towards racism in matchmaking before, but i noticed that this kind of drama started to increase with the amount of bull**** written on forums. I get it, some people 'trolled' you in your matches and wasted your time when you tried to play matchmaking, but these kind of people have always been a part in Turkish community, which you just didn't see. I don't get offended whenever someone calls the other 'turkbrain' or whatever, but just because I don't get offended, it doesn't mean it should be allowed. You didn't clearly understand Airelhach with his post. He didn't say 'I am upset and I cry in my bed everytime'. He said, if someone provokes me in a racist fashion, he should get punished for that, and just because the one with racist attitude doesn't get punished, I get a right to answer that guy in his manner, which shouldn't be punished either. The problem is (not depending on just this case) that, whenever I see someone throwing racist **** at another, and gets a respond for that, both get a ban or warning. And if the guy is admin-friendly, his punishment gets revoked easier than the actual victim.
As I said, just because you are OK with being insulted, it doesn't mean everyone should be so, there is a reason for 10 admins to be active on WBMM. IG_BG was a good example for that, which can be idolized in this manner.
 

Mythicc

Knight at Arms
Turkish players are equally as bad if not worse with language towards everyone else, they just often insult in turkish so you don't understand it and therefore don't report it. Yeah its a low iq move from them but it happens all the time and is usually never ever punished
 

huN

Master Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
punish them too?
I remember being asked to translate turkish sentences to english back when IG was still alive, and the outcome was usually a ban.
 

Habimana

Grandmaster Knight
Nono no, stop this bull**** reasoning of taking insults personal. If an unknown person calls my mother a whore or insults me, he ends up with a broken nose. Stop justifying people being idiots or being bigots just because we are in the internet. It shouldn’t happen and that’s it.
I am not saying it's ok or that it should happen. I also think its a bad thing to do but what I wanted to say is that people won't stop being idiots. That's all. It's so easy to just create new accounts and stuff that you will never get rid of trolls.
 

Tallie

Baron
WBNW
again, moron turk or ape are not something racist.
everything that's actually racist gets punished if reported.
False, that's racism aswell. Correct me if I'm wrong, but calling people monkey or making monkey noises IRL is seen as racism aswell, why wouldn't it be online? A good example is the football stadium bans that people receive after doing so. Also Peter getting a **** ton of **** after calling Rayden a monkey, at that point people said it was racism, why not now? (no bad feelings to Peter, just an example).

The other point is false aswell, I'm friends with many Turks on here and I've seen them get alot of ****, including racism. I've reported it to multiple admins but I either got no response or nothing was done with it.

Edit: No hard feelings to anyone, just racism shouldn't be allowed anywhere. IMO stricter rules, ban the racist ****s.
 

부부를 넘어서 가자

Grandmaster Knight
WBWF&S
False, that's racism aswell. Correct me if I'm wrong, but calling people monkey or making monkey noises IRL is seen as racism aswell, why wouldn't it be online? A good example is the football stadium bans that people receive after doing so. Also Peter getting a **** ton of **** after calling Rayden a monkey, at that point people said it was racism, why not now? (no bad feelings to Peter, just an example).

The other point is false aswell, I'm friends with many Turks on here and I've seen them get alot of ****, including racism. I've reported it to multiple admins but I either got no response or nothing was done with it.
monkey or moron are normal insults they have nothing to do with racism at all lol
turk is just a turkish person which is also getting thrown around as insult
just because some randoms on the internet consider this as racism cause they're crybabies doesn't mean it actually is
if you consider them racism its no surprise they're not getting punished properly
actual racism gets punished as you could see with joshua or khani or others
 

Tallie

Baron
WBNW
monkey or moron are normal insults they have nothing to do with racism at all lol
turk is just a turkish person which is also getting thrown around as insult
just because some randoms on the internet consider this as racism cause they're crybabies doesn't mean it actually is
if you consider them racism its no surprise they're not getting punished properly
actual racism gets punished as you could see with joshua or khani or others
I’ve never said anything about the word ‘moron’ as it’s a word that has nothing to do with ethnicities etc. Calling someone a “****ing monkey” or “filthy monkey”, like I’ve seen my friends being called on MM alot, is seen as racism everywhere.

I’m a white Dutch guy, no one is calling me a ‘****ing monkey’ or whatever, but people are calling other ethnicities that name purely based on their darker skin tone then the western EU countries. That’s where it becomes racism and should be punished.
 

huN

Master Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
monkey or moron are normal insults they have nothing to do with racism at all lol
turk is just a turkish person which is also getting thrown around as insult
just because some randoms on the internet consider this as racism cause they're crybabies doesn't mean it actually is
if you consider them racism its no surprise they're not getting punished properly
actual racism gets punished as you could see with joshua or khani or others

This is one of the stupidest arguments I've seen after a long while. I believe you belong to a different kind of reality. Have you ever heard any use of 'turk' without meaning any insult towards another? I've never heard something besides 'turkbrain' 'idiot turk' and so on. Depending on your argument, nigga is also not a racist slur as it only means an ancient time slave with black color, is that it? Just use your brain before you make a statement.
Also j4 wasn't banned for his racist acts, 1- he insulted admins, 2- he abused the game, 3- he was toxic.
As long as you keep pushing this line, all you get will be more 'turk retards'. Hostility never brings peace, and believe me, if this **** is not resolved there will be more chaos.
You think that i would be offended if you called me turk. I don't feel any hatred at all, you will be just stating a fact. The problem is, it never goes alone, just because some random teamhit you, you don't have to say 'dumb turk', dumb is enough :grin: i cant believe im actually explaining this like teaching to a schoolkid
I got no beef towards anyone in this community, and it's not too much to ask some toxic people to stop using 'turk ...' when they are insulting someone. i don't care if you met so many turks being trolls, the reason for that is, the turkish playerbase is higher than in any other country, meaning that number of retards you will find is proportionally higher. and i know that those 'turks' are more offensive than some of you might have been, but still that doesn't mean 100% is like that.
Debate is simple, either ban racism with all means, or set them free and see what will happen for yourselves.
As i stated before, ive never been a victim for any kind of racism, but if I get to be, don't expect me to shush and listen if admins are not gonna do something about it.
 

Surkan

Baron
WBNW
there are turks that call people turkbrain too lol

there's a difference between insulting someone because they're turkish or insulting a turk because they start ****

theres like 50 mediocre players from turkey who think they can type mean things to actual players and obviously theyre going to get insulted one way or another

ur pretending its because theyre turkish, but its because theyre ****ing retarded
 

부부를 넘어서 가자

Grandmaster Knight
WBWF&S
This is one of the stupidest arguments I've seen after a long while. I believe you belong to a different kind of reality. Have you ever heard any use of 'turk' without meaning any insult towards another? I've never heard something besides 'turkbrain' 'idiot turk' and so on. Depending on your argument, nigga is also not a racist slur as it only means an ancient time slave with black color, is that it? Just use your brain before you make a statement.
Also j4 wasn't banned for his racist acts, 1- he insulted admins, 2- he abused the game, 3- he was toxic.
As long as you keep pushing this line, all you get will be more 'turk retards'. Hostility never brings peace, and believe me, if this **** is not resolved there will be more chaos.
You think that i would be offended if you called me turk. I don't feel any hatred at all, you will be just stating a fact. The problem is, it never goes alone, just because some random teamhit you, you don't have to say 'dumb turk', dumb is enough :grin: i cant believe im actually explaining this like teaching to a schoolkid
I got no beef towards anyone in this community, and it's not too much to ask some toxic people to stop using 'turk ...' when they are insulting someone. i don't care if you met so many turks being trolls, the reason for that is, the turkish playerbase is higher than in any other country, meaning that number of retards you will find is proportionally higher. and i know that those 'turks' are more offensive than some of you might have been, but still that doesn't mean 100% is like that.
Debate is simple, either ban racism with all means, or set them free and see what will happen for yourselves.
As i stated before, ive never been a victim for any kind of racism, but if I get to be, don't expect me to shush and listen if admins are not gonna do something about it.
yes ive seen alot of turkish people call fellow turkish people turks because its easier to type and quicker and... a normal word
same as I can call british people brits or people from germany germans
of course those words can be used in a racist manner same as every word
airealhach literally named the words ape moron and turk in his post, this is what I'm speaking about

also joshua is muted and was banned for racism mainly

I’ve never said anything about the word ‘moron’ as it’s a word that has nothing to do with ethnicities etc. Calling someone a “****ing monkey” or “filthy monkey”, like I’ve seen my friends being called on MM alot, is seen as racism everywhere.

I’m a white Dutch guy, no one is calling me a ‘****ing monkey’ or whatever, but people are calling other ethnicities that name purely based on their darker skin tone then the western EU countries. That’s where it becomes racism and should be punished.

wow how very lucky you are I've been called monkey or ape or moron or whatever else plenty on MM and I have a white skin colour too
 
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Alyss

Grandmaster Knight
The word "Turk" on its own is not racism, it's just the name of the Turkish people, the same way someone is called French, or American, or German. On the other hand, adding an adjective in front of the word Turk is xenophobic (ex: dumb turk). As Hun said, if someone is a moron, just call him a moron, his nationality has nothing to do with his behavior.
 

부부를 넘어서 가자

Grandmaster Knight
WBWF&S
The word "Turk" on its own is not racism, it's just the name of the Turkish people, the same way someone is called French, or American, or German. On the other hand, adding an adjective in front of the word Turk is xenophobic (ex: dumb turk). As Hun said, if someone is a moron, just call him a moron, his nationality has nothing to do with his behavior.
ye that's why i said of course they can be used in a racist manner but that goes for pretty much every word. I have no idea why turkish people think that the word turk is a racist slur
its a thin line since some people take it super personal and others don't hence why actual racism is banned and gets punished on MM and normal trashtalk and some insults aren't because otherwise there would be no players to play with
 

huN

Master Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
i already get that point, but just because a black guy insulted you, you dont call them 'stupid n****' do you?
just because you normalize stuff, slightest mistake a player makes will be ended with dumb turk.
i got so many friends around me calling out turkbrain or turkish dog or whatever, simply just because they see these on wherever they do, and they think it is innocent when they use it, most of the times you let it go as they are your friends, but its not something you would like to hear from some random in the internet. i dont know why it started, but it wasnt the case for like, 2-3 months ago.
as i said, if these 'turks' are being retards and annoying you, report them and respond them in their manner. just because you get offended by a turkish guy you dont get to call out a whole nation.
you may think that the way you are using this word is innocent to you, but it is not when someone abuses it. i dont get offended by the way you are reaching to these retards, but the thing you are defending is simply defending all the ones that are abusing the use of this foul language.
im not telling you to remove the word turk, thats not the reason to be a racist. just dont use it at all if you are trying to describe a retard.
i dont think its too much to ask really, i dont want to find myself fighting with some random just because 'he got teamhit by a retard turkish player and now thinks i am another retard' which i believe was the case for airelhach.
as much as i am against this racist thing, i am also defending the punishment of these kind of retards from community hosted tournaments and servers. turkish community suffered a lot from random trolls before, and it will keep suffering,
also i dont know why are you defending this too much but i don't know if this case includes you or not kawaii, i am not directing fingers at you just because you are the one responding.
 

부부를 넘어서 가자

Grandmaster Knight
WBWF&S
The problem hun is that they get reported but nothing happens. they throw peoples games and ruin the fun and people can't do anything but watch. Hence eventually people start talking smack. is it fair? not really, but I'd say it's understandable. If they throw my game atleast let me ****talk them for couching into enemy spawn 3/3 rounds. people call them stupid turks because they're stupid not because they're turkish.

I'm not defending racism or anything like that but you're pushing a narrative of MM being full of racist people while in reality there's alot of (mainly in fact turkish) players that ruin the fun for lots of players and therefore get ****talked.
 
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My suggestion is going towards other places. Don't misdirect it please.

A shorter version for you Kawaii, just read the bold-marked and underlined typos. :smile:
Hey, there is something on my mind I want to discuss for a very long time.

I checked the rules and I couldn't see such a rule preventing racism and kind and thrashtalking. I mean they may be taken into account in provoking section though, still the rule has very limited use. I just don't want to argue with people calling me names such as "ape, monkey, f... turk" etc. I get that some players might be trolling on purpose and such but that doesn't give anyone the right to insult me if I've done nothing to you. When I play matchmaking I play serious, I don't troll nor teamhit intentionally. Sometimes I can make misplays as well, just as many of the players currently playing do. However, when I call someone trolling or intentionally teamhitting, I get to be the one to be insulted by him and his friends if on server.

Normally, I'm not a short-tempered guy, you can ask around if you don't know me. But when someone decides to troll the match by either teamhitting me or playing solo or calling me nicknames just out of fun, I get furious as most of the people would normally do. Still I try to reason (and cooparate if they are trying solo going) with some of them, who I think reasonable. And with who I think unreasonable I respond them back with the same way they use; if they call me nicknames I call them with others if they teamhit me I hit them back etc. Next thing is that we both get warned. If I just decide to go spec and try not involve in any arguments, I get banned because of me being afk too long, while the trolling guy gets no punishments.


Admins who witness such things doesn't do anything at all by the way, I won't point fingers on anybody. For some, I don't think they don't do anything because they don't care but I guess because of the loophole in the rules. One of the admins told me an insult towards my nationality (which I can't change, I'll always be a middle-eastern, Turkish dude even if I change my citizenship, won't I?) can be tolerated as it doesn't count as racism, are you kidding me? People who I don't have any acquaintances with can't just insult me or troll me and get away with it. But they do, and I have to be the one to fight back. When I do, I get to be the one to be punished instead of them.

My suggestion is that just expand the rules generally or on provoking section, doing so admins can punish those guys accordingly. This way I won't have to insult people back. IG_BG had very rational rules about such things and server's admins were very successful about enforcing their power. People would think twice before trying to commit such a thing and even if they find the courage to do so, they would beg to be unbanned afterwards. I think we can have such rules on WBMM as well, what do you think?

And Surkan
there are turks that call people turkbrain too lol
There has always been. This argument has been existed since 2010. There has always been banter in Turkish community and it still exists.

there's a difference between insulting someone because they're turkish or insulting a turk because they start ****
I can't vouch for every single Turkish player and you can't expect such a thing from myself either. I don't pick fights but people pick fights with me, if admins won't protect my rights I'm the one to do that. However I shouldn't be, I should just focus on my game experience.

theres like 50 mediocre players from turkey who think they can type mean things to actual players and obviously theyre going to get insulted one way or another
If they are provoking people, they should be punished as well. I'm not suggesting a debate over Turkish vs Eu thrashtalkers, I'm suggesting the rule clarification for all of the players playing the game, so they won't get bothered by such people. We hadn't let cheaters play the game until a couple of months ago, why do we let racist and toxic players among ourselves. Aren't we better than this?

I think you still consider my suggestion with judging me with my nationality. Just consider the suggestion as a player's or a friend's if you consider me as one, not a "Turk-brain"s baby cry. My point has never been "EU guys insulted me, why don't you punish them?" but all you are defending is "Turks insult us too!" I'm suggesting to keep the toxicity out of our game experience. I'm not saying "lets all be friends", don't be if you don't want to, but just respect each other.

The real sparkling in me starting to write about this suggestion wasn't even including myself at the first place but I wanted to write about my discomfort as well. It was just yesterday some guy nicknamed "nigg" was trolling a match by spawning with default armor. Even if he wasn't trolling the match and even if he was the best player of the game he shouldn't be let play under such a nickname. Again IG_BG had such rules and they were very effective in my opinion.

My main point is not that I'm sad because somebody called me racist insults and got away with it. My main point is that I don't want to argue with people. Because when I try to deal with them myself I end up being the one to be punished instead of them even though they provoked me. I'm here to play the game not to argue with people. However many admins who witness such things just don't involve in it because there is no such rule. And the only existing rule for such a thing has very limited use and a blur meaning which makes it unfunctional. One of the reasons that we have a very small community is this toxicity among the existing players. Many new mp players ended up uninstalling the game in the past and still as they are not good enough they get harrassed wherever they play, mm included. I don't have to like any of you guys, but it doesn't give me the right to disrespect any of you. I had the money to spend in my pocket 10 years ago and I wanted to waste it for this game. I still have the right to play this game as any decent person should have.
 

부부를 넘어서 가자

Grandmaster Knight
WBWF&S
I agree regarding the n*** guy honestlyh ave no idea why those kind of names are not blacklisted

One of the reasons that we have a very small community is this toxicity among the existing players. Many new mp players ended up uninstalling the game in the past and still as they are not good enough they get harrassed wherever they play, mm included.

this is making me laugh ngl every MP game is like this warband is by far not the worst either
in fact, trashtalking and insulting is much more a thing in bigger communities because u dont get to play with the same players all the time
 
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Fietta

buıʇʇǝs uoıʇɔǝɹıp ʞɔɐʇʇɐ
Section Moderator
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
Adek should've been permanently banned, he was racist multiple times, never apologised and made a really awful unban appeal.

On another note, using any racist term on this forum REGARDLESS of context is punishable, so don't use racist words in your reply (even if you don't mean it in a negative way).
 
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