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[WBMM] Discussion & Suggestions

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Killfacer

Marquis
WB
As per the discussion in the 6v6/8v8 thread I have a suggestion. Can you advertise current and upcoming team tournaments using server messages? Something like:

"Enjoy WBMM? Check out (insert tournament name) on the Taleworlds Forum"

Or perhaps go into more detail on the tournament depending on how long you want the announcement to be.

May not bring anyone in but it's worth a go.
 

OurGloriousLeader

Grandmaster Knight
Tork789 said:
Neither are balanced, here are my suggestions:

I know you're mostly joking, but it is a false equivalence - bows are a little unbalanced in some aspects (namely instant switching to melee, and maybe Vaegir damage) but overall their mechanics are necessary to fulfil their role e.g. able to reliably land shots, especially headshots.

Javelins provide ranged pressure to the two classes in the game that also have advantages over archers, in terms of troop stats (infantry) and a big scary horse (cav). Both of these classes win, all things being equal, when they get into melee with archers. Javelins take away the one advantage archers have by being just accurate enough that if you want to guarantee safety you shield up or at least keep moving erratically, which makes your aim worse. This is before even talking about their effect on other classes, where javelin users can set up quick crossfires, throw while moving in order to slow down retreating enemies and catch them, cav being able to kite and kill enemy horses with javelins in a manner FAR worse than even the most cowardly archer, etc.

Neither may be balanced perfectly, but javs are far worse in terms of being unbalanced.
 
it's pretty clear that factions aren't balanced with competitive intention. so we gonna do something about it or just discuss it until next tournament, that will end up not using stat changes anyway?
 

Orion

Still Not Worthy
Global Moderator
M&BWBWF&SNW
Have we considered using mirrored factions for (tournament) matches? Nord v Nord, Swad v Swad, etc. A little boring aesthetically, but it's undeniably the fairest match configuration.
 

Fietta

buıʇʇǝs uoıʇɔǝɹıp ʞɔɐʇʇɐ
Section Moderator
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
That's a bad idea, the good thing about different factions is you can easily identify who's in your team and who's not. If teams are playing both sides then it's still even when it comes to faction imbalances as both teams will be playing as that faction in one side.
 

Firunien

Grandmaster Knight
Because of faction inbalance we switch spawn/faction. It´s a non issue. Some balancing could always be done, but i dont see anything significant besides removing lawl for cav.
 

Lord Rich

Grandmaster Knight
Firunien said:
Because of faction inbalance we switch spawn/faction. It´s a non issue. Some balancing could always be done, but i dont see anything significant besides removing lawl for cav.

It's not entirely true that it's a non-issue.

The worse the faction matchup, the less the difference in strength between teams matters. In matches this may give an advantage to a team which favours open maps over closed maps, if the closed map is a bad faction matchup, then the result is more likely to be a draw which then favours the open map.

A tourney a while back had rhodoks vs sarranids on ruins (sarranids on hill). No matter what we tried we never won a single round as rhodoks in any training or the match, we also never lost a single round on sarranids. It made the match revolve entirely around the closed map.
 
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It actually become really boring, like, seriously... It has been months and this single problem didn't fixed. How hard can it even be?
And why would anybody have to get on to the queue to be able to invite a friend in it? If you have to joing to queue first, then fix the problem that causing you to return to "play" page when someone joins to queue.
 

huN

Master Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
RN_Pendragon said:
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It actually become really boring, like, seriously... It has been months and this single problem didn't fixed. How hard can it even be?
And why would anybody have to get on to the queue to be able to invite a friend in it? If you have to joing to queue first, then fix the problem that causing you to return to "play" page when someone joins to queue.

I don’t know is it really hard to do, but you can change lobby system into this; Allow us to create a party untill the countdown ends(30 seconds untill everyone accepts) or let us start finding a game after we create a party. Otherwise, in a lobby with 11/12 players, you can’t create a lobby even though if your friend is in the lobby. And it is also so nonsense to see the lobby page whenever someone accepts.
 

Orion

Still Not Worthy
Global Moderator
M&BWBWF&SNW
Fietta said:
That's a bad idea, the good thing about different factions is you can easily identify who's in your team and who's not. If teams are playing both sides then it's still even when it comes to faction imbalances as both teams will be playing as that faction in one side.
Firunien said:
Because of faction inbalance we switch spawn/faction. It´s a non issue. Some balancing could always be done, but i dont see anything significant besides removing lawl for cav.
This is flawed logic, and the reason we see matches like this. That is an example where both teams were good enough to win almost every round as the stronger faction, resulting in 3 out of 4 sets ending 3-0 and the final set ending 3-1. The stronger faction (Nords over Rhodoks on the first map, and Swadians over Sarranids on the second) won decisively in every set, with a single dropped round deciding the outcome of what--at a glance--appeared to be a very close match. It's a cherry-picked case, admittedly, because it's an extreme. That's not to say that faction imbalance is a non-issue, because while this may be an extreme case the trend is present to some degree for all teams which are closely matched. I haven't run the numbers, but I would hazard to guess that Nords won more sets in BCM than any other faction, followed by Swadians or Vaegirs. If this is the case, then it's indicative of faction imbalance actually impacting match results in a meaningful way, even if that impact just drives overall match scores closer together because both teams win as the stronger faction.

If anyone is genuinely curious, I can compile the data from BCM and get actual numbers to see how this plays out. I do feel like this particular tangent is better suited to a different thread, though, 'cause I don't think faction mirroring is a good idea for matchmaking. It would be too boring for sure. I'm only interested in the concept for tournaments.
 

Fietta

buıʇʇǝs uoıʇɔǝɹıp ʞɔɐʇʇɐ
Section Moderator
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
I don't understand how you can say 'this is flawed logic' when your original question was 'fairest match configuration'. Even with faction imbalance it's still fair as both teams have the same chance at stomping. If you'd have changed it to like 'fairest faction lineup' I'd have agreed with you. Although using mirrored factions Is very silly unless you want to teamkill every round.
 

OurGloriousLeader

Grandmaster Knight
It would be better to apply some simple balance changes to factions than use mirrored set ups. The asymmetrical nature of Warband is one of the things that makes it interesting, there are just a number of glaring issues that push factions into being OP in some contexts *cough* javs *cough* awlpikes *cough* footshots *cough*
 

KaneMaB

Grandmaster Knight
OurGloriousLeader said:
It would be better to apply some simple balance changes to factions than use mirrored set ups. The asymmetrical nature of Warband is one of the things that makes it interesting, there are just a number of glaring issues that push factions into being OP in some contexts *cough* javs *cough* awlpikes *cough* footshots *cough*
*Cough* Veagir archers *Cough*
 

Mynes

Knight at Arms
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Version 1.2 change log
- Balancing system optimized - thanks to Charlini and Shema for some help
- Added server messages during countdown which shows classes chosen by team members - suggested by LeRoux
- Added server announcement for active tournaments on TW forums - suggested by Deacon
- Smurfing is now prohibited and will result in a permanent ban

The move from client to web client imposed some difficulties in preventing multiple accounts, this is not something that we intended to become as part of our client. Therefore, in the meantime we have decided to permanently ban multiple accounts as a rule until we find a solution that best works for everyone. We can't have some players circumventing the system by duo queuing with new keys and drastically increasing the chances of their victory in each match if everyone wants to play in MMR and participate fairly.  Because WBMM has too low of a playercount to signficiantly reduce the impact of fresh keys we don't want to allow veteran players to have several accounts. Questions have been raised asking us if queueing with two accounts is OK. Players were abusing fresh keys by double queueing quickly and joining the next queue right before their current match ends, this all tends to give unfair advantage over other regular users.
 
Is there something wrong with the new mmr system?

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Got 2 more rounds, 6 more kills, same deaths, same rounds given to opponent team, +3 points?
 
I got the same kinda here

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Only got 5 mmr more for getting 11 more kills haha

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