B Medieval [WB] Warband: Total Realism, 1148 A.D. - (MAPPER needed)

[Outlawed]

YAY ABBASIDS! 

My favorite Islamic empire of all time.

ALL. TIME.

Indeed. I like them a bunch as well. Ayubbids win for me though =p


Update:
I've finished the Tagmata (local troops) for the Byzantines and working on the infamous Varrangoi and the Katafractoi tree as well as some more special units. Mercs will be easy thanks to the book I have which talks about so many that it leaves me in question of which to include and which to ignore.

 

[Conners]

Lol yeah. I think you got a little carried away.
I will probably have easter eggs here and there, but a plate cuirass handed to you for being a good Templar.. really now lol.

?


I'm considering whether to end my reply with just the question mark. Don't know whether you think the Templars are unable to supply a rare item, it's too easy, or something else.

 

[Tibertus]

I think he's just saying that it's not quite founded in history. Really, cuirasses were not something seen during this time period. Plus, Templars were prohibited from having personal items which outshone their brothers' possessions.

 

[Outlawed]

Lol yeah don't get me wrong.
I'm not trying to bash you or anything, I'm just saying that Templars are going to be a special unit for some Crusader states and not more really. Maybe I'll look at having certain lords have more Templars in their army than anything else (if I learn how to script hopefully) which would symbolize them being close with the Templars. But in terms of player RPG elements into the Templar Order itself, it would be quite difficult without a faction of their own.

 

[Conners]

I think he's just saying that it's not quite founded in history. Really, cuirasses were not something seen during this time period.
Plus, Templars were prohibited from having personal items which outshone their brothers' possessions.

As for cuirasses, I thought the term was broad enough that it could even mean a breastplate (which goes back to the Spartans, if I am not mistaken). Was a bad example, either way.
They were ? As in, to an extent where they all had the same armour and weapons, no one having better? Or just that, no one gets the special X/y/z?

Lol yeah don't get me wrong.
I'm not trying to bash you or anything, I'm just saying that Templars are going to be a special unit for some Crusader states and not more really. Maybe I'll look at having certain lords have more Templars in their army than anything else (if I learn how to script hopefully) which would symbolize them being close with the Templars. But in terms of player RPG elements into the Templar Order itself, it would be quite difficult without a faction of their own.

They are small as far as factions go, of course, being more like a powerful order of knights. Not sure how much their banking-system had an effect on the Crusades, but it might be worth a mention (even if just as fluff)? ...Actually, you might be able to attack Templars transporting money, at that rate (depending on the details of how they did it and historical accuracy, etc.).
As for the RPG elements, they did manage it in Onin no Ran, for the Monk Temple. I don't guess they used a faction for them, since there weren't really any units of the monks' on the map. Of course, there aren't many factions in Onin no Ran in the first place...

 

[Sahran]

Well Breastplates didn't exist in the sense that nobody in this period make use of any of them.

And yeah I think Tiberius is right conners, since that's part of the whole idea behind the original uniform of the templars being the cappa (the long, unadorned except for maybe a red cross robe). You weren't supposed to have any of the bling bling (be it metal bling or rich fur or fabric bling) that other knights had.

 

[Outlawed]

Second post has been updated with Byzantine and Abbasid research. I did manage to get it done before the Weekend =p
Tell me what you think and if you have comments. It was hard to try and create hierarchies for certain troops, but I tried my best to make things appear organized (The Tagmata was very messy during our period, many changes were taking place at once)

 

[ramazan_aga]

Thnxxx bro its super....

 

[Gorukha]

Why are taxes increased exponentially ?  Health should be though since the more people the more problems you gain. 

 

[Outlawed]

Why are taxes increased exponentially ?  Health should be though since the more people the more problems you gain.

Because population increases exponentially.
This will only be the case for Towns though. Castles will have a lesser curved model and village will have linear models.

 

[Conners]

Well Breastplates didn't exist in the sense that nobody in this period make use of any of them.

And yeah I think Tiberius is right conners, since that's part of the whole idea behind the original uniform of the templars being the cappa (the long, unadorned except for maybe a red cross robe). You weren't supposed to have any of the bling bling (be it metal bling or rich fur or fabric bling) that other knights had.

Why was that, anyway? Breastplates would've been somewhat better protection than mail (especially blunt trauma), and you can wear mail under them. Was it too costly, or were they hard to move in? Or maybe it just wasn't the fashion..?

Spartans had a system like that. Considering how they did, it seems a fair idea to copy. Just wondering about the practicality of it, when you have twelve sets of Double-Mail you can't put to use (unless of course, all the templars had the best armour and weapons available). If there's a upgrade tree for Templars, I guess it'd just be the same equipment set, on a more experienced unit, "Templar", "Warrior Templar", "Veteran Templar", or something like that. Though probably they need no upgrade tree, and will be a single unit.



BTW Outlawed, I guess there'll be Companions in the mod too? Looking for ideas for Companions?

 

[Tibertus]

It just didn't ****ing happen, do your research. Even Spartans didn't really use "breastplates", as you so quaintly put it. The main armor of ancient Greece was the linothorax, not the sculpted bronze armor you see in movies. Besides, you're talking about a completely different time period. Stop pushing the point, it's annoying.

 

[Outlawed]

Well Breastplates didn't exist in the sense that nobody in this period make use of any of them.

And yeah I think Tiberius is right conners, since that's part of the whole idea behind the original uniform of the templars being the cappa (the long, unadorned except for maybe a red cross robe). You weren't supposed to have any of the bling bling (be it metal bling or rich fur or fabric bling) that other knights had.

Why was that, anyway? Breastplates would've been somewhat better protection than mail (especially blunt trauma), and you can wear mail under them. Was it too costly, or were they hard to move in? Or maybe it just wasn't the fashion..?

Spartans had a system like that. Considering how they did, it seems a fair idea to copy. Just wondering about the practicality of it, when you have twelve sets of Double-Mail you can't put to use (unless of course, all the templars had the best armour and weapons available). If there's a upgrade tree for Templars, I guess it'd just be the same equipment set, on a more experienced unit, "Templar", "Warrior Templar", "Veteran Templar", or something like that. Though probably they need no upgrade tree, and will be a single unit.



BTW Outlawed, I guess there'll be Companions in the mod too? Looking for ideas for Companions?

There is no real reason as to why they stopped using them. Reasons differed depending on where you were in the world. The last civilization to use them were the Romans, very early on. But then they started using segmented armor, which was later dissolved much like the Western Roman Empire. I think mainly though they were not used because you could get protection from cuts, arrows and certain stabs with maille, it was more abundant, and it was lighter than plate.

As for the Spartans and what not, they mostly had bronze ones which wouldn't fair well against Medieval arrow heads.

 

[Tibertus]

The Romans actually favored maille over the lorica segmata.

Medieval medicine was actually also very advanced in the art of setting broken bones, but not at sanitation and preventing infection. Therefor blunt trauma was not seen as much of a threat to someone's life as even minor cuts were, so people who had the option to wear armor would prefer the non-restrictive maille anyways since they were more concerned about preventing cuts.

 

[Gorukha]

Oh ok, thought you meant you would calculate the taxes exponentially. If town growth is exponential then taxes are not, since they are still the same per citizen.

  It's not that technology for setting bones was advanced, if you can call it that. It's the obvious threat to life from one compared to the other. 

 

[Tibertus]

No, medieval doctors actually knew what they were doing when setting bones, they knew jack **** about sanitation though.

 

[Conners]

It just didn't ******** happen, do your research. Even Spartans didn't really use "breastplates", as you so quaintly put it. The main armor of ancient Greece was the linothorax, not the sculpted bronze armor you see in movies. Besides, you're talking about a completely different time period. Stop pushing the point, it's annoying.

I was going to ignore this post. But then I saw that it was you who posted it, when you have been posting very informatively. I'm sorry if it seemed I was "pushing a point". My interest was purely curiosity and interest about how armour use evolved and why.

There is no real reason as to why they stopped using them. Reasons differed depending on where you were in the world. The last civilization to use them were the Romans, very early on. But then they started using segmented armor, which was later dissolved much like the Western Roman Empire. I think mainly though they were not used because you could get protection from cuts, arrows and certain stabs with maille, it was more abundant, and it was lighter than plate.

As for the Spartans and what not, they mostly had bronze ones which wouldn't fair well against Medieval arrow heads.

Ah, I see. Breastplates would quite likely be pointless to the majority of attacks, since mail would already deflect them.

Bronze arms are made differently too. So the knowledge of how to make a bronze breastplate wouldn't have immediately transferred to making a steel one. Wondering how well bronze fares against steel now, though.

Thank you very much Outlaw, for helping me to understand .

No, medieval doctors actually knew what they were doing when setting bones, they knew jack **** about sanitation though.

To be fair, "sanitation" is the prevention of tiny animals you can't see, from multiplying into billions of tiny animals, which fight the other good tiny animals in your body, in order to attack other parts of your body on a level so small, you can't see it--but it builds up because there are billions of them.

Arrested for witchcraft, or laughed at for being daft. No one would ever have believed such a crazy thing. ((To their credit, they did work out some amazing things, even though they had no understanding of viruses... and then they also did some moronic stuff too, like bleeding, so there you go.))

 

[Sahran]

Been playing 1257 AD, one thing I found interesting was how lethal and valuable they've made swords (although they did the opposite of what we're doing - their bows are very weak). I'm not entirely sure I love it (since I'm still smarting from a knight one-hit-killing me on foot with an Aketon on..) but I did find it really interesting and entertaining from the perspective that it denies what I'd seen online with 2 handers dominating everything.

Might be something we want to consider ourselves, since it would really help knightly types compete against the lethality of the bow - the Turkoman (ignoring the well armored horse archer here) can do serious damage to the knight if he sticks to a distance with the bow, but if the knight gets in there one slash with his sword and that Turkoman is dead.

 

[Tibertus]

Been playing 1257 AD, one thing I found interesting was how lethal and valuable they've made swords (although they did the opposite of what we're doing - their bows are very weak). I'm not entirely sure I love it (since I'm still smarting from a knight one-hit-killing me on foot with an Aketon on..) but I did find it really interesting and entertaining from the perspective that it denies what I'd seen online with 2 handers dominating everything.

Might be something we want to consider ourselves, since it would really help knightly types compete against the lethality of the bow - the Turkoman (ignoring the well armored horse archer here) can do serious damage to the knight if he sticks to a distance with the bow, but if the knight gets in there one slash with his sword and that Turkoman is dead.

Really, I think swords are just a bit too powerful in 1257. I've been playing the mod as well, and I have some 70+ armor and still get taken down in two hits from a sword, which I think is ridiculous. I also really dislike how powerful they made all throwing weapons. After I noticed that they made the throwing weapons cutting damage, I think it may not be that they made swords more powerful, but instead nerfed armor soak values. In the end, I think swords should be extremely powerful against cloth and leather armors, but not against maille. I don't know if it's possible, but I think I've seen it done in other mods, where soak factors are different between "cloth" and "metal" armors. Perhaps it could be that cloth and maille armors have similar soak values against blunt weapons, maille have much higher soak values against cutting, and only moderately higher soak values again piercing when compared to cloth and leather armors.

What I'd like to see is bows made effective at close range, and relatively harmless at long distances against armor, which is what you guys are already doing. But in order to keep things balanced, you really need to change the rapid reloading of bows which is just entirely unrealistic. I think I saw mention that you guys were going to change the bow animations, so maybe that's what you're doing.  If my sources are correct, at an archer's quickest rate, they'd be shooting 6 -7 arrows a minute, and would at that rate quickly tire. That comes to about 1 arrow every 10 seconds, which is a lot slower than what we see in warband.

 

[elorian]

i am an archer in real life, and i can shoot precise in 6-7 seconds.