B Antiquity [WB] The Aztecs (Warband 1.143) (Suspended)

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Oxtocoatl 说:
Jeez, I want that book. Whats it called?

http://arqueomilitar.blogspot.com/2011/02/guerreros-aztecas-nueva-publicacion-de.html

dont know if is in english

Sierra125 说:
Very Nice! wish you had some chibcha culture in there though (I joke we were way to cool to hang out with aztecs)

maybe for a inca conquest vertion of the mod

also I have been feeling kinda sick lately so I havent started on the jaguar suit

also the book mentions that it seems that even if warfare was male dominated its possible that there was woman warriors too,proofs being depiction that shows kings capturin leaders of other city states that are shown as females,also it was normal to females to arms up in case of a invasion,so there wont be a problem if someone decides to play as a female I think,but it was normal for the womans to made the tipical woman functions of making the food and such for the soldiers instead of fighting but its possible that there was woman warriors after all though aztec culture was very male dominated and any young one at combat age that didnt captured a enemy was mocked as being a woman instead as a man,infact they had long hair that was cut when he made his first capture implying the whole sexist thing
 
Do you need any help hodelling? I can use Maya pretty well, and im looking to make a few things to add to my portfolio, ive never modelled for a game so is there like any poly restrictions?  so if you can use maya files or u know how to convert them to the file you need and would like a modeller  then pm me :grin:
 
you can ask ajolin,I wouldnt mind someone else modelling

and considering the low poly nature of the game I think not much experience is required
 
Hey thanks, this sounds really good. I did find it in english (thank god, for I don`t speak a word of spanish). THX!
 
though the book is more like a update report rather than full info about it,I think the books of osprey publishing are better if you want a all info about subject kind of book,even the author of that book mentions some of those
also it have the cool illustrations we are using
 
RJMC, heres a picture of OpenBRF. it seems that to texture objects, you need .DDS files:

ddspic.jpg
 
dds can be saved in photoshop?

also found some interesting designs on  purepecha axes

amc_01813.jpg

amc_01819.jpg


dont know if where used for rituals or if they where used in combat too cuz there is a image that show someone wearing one of those in the chest but since axes where do used as weapons after all them they can be the last tier axes and looks cool too
 
RJMC 说:
dds can be saved in photoshop?

also found some interesting designs on  purepecha axes

amc_01813.jpg

amc_01819.jpg


dont know if where used for rituals or if they where used in combat too cuz there is a image that show someone wearing one of those in the chest but since axes where do used as weapons after all them they can be the last tier axes and looks cool too

Erm Im not too sure they are axes,  I know this sounds stupid but they are actually to pluck hair. lol Ive got it in a book here at home (mind it is italian so might be reading it wrong).
 
RJMC 说:
well they look like axes so I dont know,description said axes too
Hehehe nah their not I just looked at the book and the picture is from a bit of an angle and u can see its hollow in the middle.  (I know it sucks i did a heraldry project in art with aztec designs , so it sucked when one of my favourites turned out to be an Aztec hair plucker :sad: )
 
found this interesting image that is a sketch made by a famous etnologist that seem to show the diferent kinds of maquahuitls that where used by the aztec and mayans
amc_03234.jpg

the mayan one being more similiar to that design of a stick whit big flakes that appears everywhere but I havent seen on any aztec art,so it means that it was just a maya design

so I dont know if it will be correct to use the crappy maca for the other groups but maybe it can be used to some hostile ramdon natives that may be mayan vandals,if the mayans arent added as a other faction offcourse

also you say that it was a aztec plucker? but this one isnt aztec,do you have more info about that?
 
I see,it does say those are tarascans,well atleast the axes are real

probably the resemblence is due to the way they forged the metal,the andean cultures of southamerica also have instruments of similiar shapes,they knifes where of that shape cuz they didnt know how to make a better metal to make sword like kind of weapons so they stick whit blades like that,also its a indication of a robably southamerican origin of the tarascan,or atleast some trade connection
 
Count of Flanders 说:
Files can be saved as dds with this nvidiaplugin: http://developer.nvidia.com/nvidia-texture-tools-adobe-photoshop
Or if not you could open your texture in paint.NET and save them directly as .dds
 
after reading some more the book:

some test whit some reconstruticve weapons shows that:

obsidian bladed weapons didnt shatered so quickly when attacking and could be very lethal,proving that they where more deadly than stipulated

spanish weapons could pierce cotton armors quite easily,but shields where more resitants,so yeah obviously native armor should be less protective than spanish metal armors

it seems obsidian tiped atlatl couldnt pierce spanish metal vest as previously though but it still was very powerfull

also some notes of a possible martial arts,that may not be needed for the mod but can be helpfull info

it seems that soldiers where more focused on striking at hands and feets to incapacitate the enemy to capture them,or cuting theyr calfs
is not know how they used theyr weapons to do that except for the calf cutting part that may mean that calf where targeted to take down the enemy while alive or just cutting the hands and feets
it seems the most resistent enemyes where the ones ending dead
also it seem warriors carried cords to tie up theyr captures and them move next to other enemy,the inexperienced childs seem to be the ones that carried the cord
anyway the point is that despite there be not knowledge about any martial arts,the capture proceeding proves the aztecs where adept at some kind of grappling like martial arts combat
dont know if this would be helpful for the mods but it maybe of interest,sure it would be complicated to add something like the the tie enemy up in the midle of combat so better skip it
or maybe add some "submission stat" that affects the whole party or just the character and increase chances of capturing prisioners

also weaponry wasnt class bassed that means that just cuz someone wasnt of high rank it didnt have acces to certain weapons,they where based on rules that where tipical of long range weapons bearers and shock weapons bearers,long range being archers and atlatl trowers and shock being maca and other melee weapons

EDIT: a little peek of the jaguar suit

jaguarsuit.jpg


the torso looks wide cuz is supposed to be wearing the cottom armor underneath,chronicles say the cotton armor was 3 fingers thick,so I dont know if maybe is too wide but it was supposed to be thick
also sure the jaguar helmet will make it less "chubby"

the claws on the arms are shown in a drawing on a codice but some show them whitout claws,still is the same thing whit the other animal suits so I think we have the freedom to choose whatever feature we want and I think the claws looks nice

also I would texture this suits myself cuz I have a very defined idea of what I want so you count of flanders could work on other stuffs

if I have the chance I will model some basic looking lance or spears,and some maces probably one of the obsidian pointy ones where I will make a design due to no visual depictions of it,and one that had a stone whit a hole in the middle to fix at the handle like a donut which is very simple too

EDIT2:also ajolin,have you implemented the axes and maces? cuz I think they may be too short compared to the ones already in m&b
 
Edit3: (Displaced for a reason) RJMC, the armors in M&B:WB dont have a head. if kept like that, the person would have 2 heads! though, the arms do end the way you put them. otherwise, nice job.

Edit4: RJMC, could you send your models to Count? he can texture them, and if it wouldn't be too hard to ask, convert it into a .BRF? because i cannot get the .BRF conversion to work at all.

EDIT2:also ajolin,have you implemented the axes and maces? cuz I think they may be too short compared to the ones already in m&b

Trust me RJMC, im working on it. i cant get the stupid things to spawn. though, i just found out how to get the cheat menu working. only reason i went looking because on Brytenwalda, being the cheater i am on that game, discovered that the "Find Item" feature exists already in the vanilla text files, and just activated them using the infamous "82 tweaks" forum. i dont have the time to remove the cheat menu when the alpha comes out, so those of you who want to ruin the game by getting the best (currently) aztec stuff, theres your one (and only) chance to easily get them, unless i feel merciful. i probably will, too. but not for long  :cool:.

Edit: RJMC your really coming along with the weaponry and Armors. i have yet to make the weapons in. i have to start from scratch AGAIN. luckily i recovered almost all of my progress, and i expect imminent beta release, textures or no textures. also, i would so dearly love the DDS files to texture these weapons.

Also, i intend on making a music pack for my team members to listen to while they work. it contains music from Sid Meier's Civilization V, and is also going to be put into the game. now, i may hand this out some time before i release to general public, because right now im thinking maybe v0.001 should be a team-only beta.... but if it is a team-only, the next version after that is guaranteed public.

I know there have been frustrations with the release dates, and i realize now that putting a date on them is just going to cause problems, such as rushing to get this finished, me and my team have regular lives, you know. were not doing this for a living. its to provide entertainment for OTHERS and as a reward to ourselves for work. and maybe for the glory of it, but mainly to make you peoples happy. i thank all my supporters and enthusiastic followers for your patience. i have not seen yet one complaint of impatience from anyone. i can only hope it will stay that way. but once in a while, there's bound to be a troll somewhere, just begging to complain about as rare of a mod as our Aztecs.


Edit2:
in addition to this already long post, heres a few DEFINITE final decision features that im too lazy to put up on the first post.
--Like alot of other mods, team members will have an in-game companion counterpart
--MAYANS WILL BE A PLAYABLE FACTION!!!! i can make do with a little inaccuracy. were trying for something fun and enjoyable. what fun is there in a strictly accurate mod? i personally think there is a little, but not as much as a bit of a looser mod.
--For all you explorers, i am proud to present that we will be among the first (if not, the only) mod that will have non-faction scenes that will be purely for exploration and to look at something relaxing. i may make these "Wonders" have 3 options:
-Explore: Walk around the scene.
-Rest Here: Gain a morale boost while staying here... your men will harbor the memory of staying, and the boost will last for a while.
-Leave: Leave, of course. without this you would be stuck there!
Also, i may have certain wonders be player conquerable, so they have a marvelous place as their capitol.... OR i will have all wonders conquerable. they wont be like normal centers, though. no lord, and no tax. they give the entire owning faction a permanent +50? morale boost as long as they hold that wonder. there would be no battle fought over the wonder. just a simple faction flag raised over it to be claimed. though, possibly a patrol can be placed around the place so defenders have time to get there...?
--Because of the immense size of Tenochtitlan, it will be split into 5 sections (i believe its historically accurate, too!) The "Northeast", "Northwest", "Southeast", "Southwest", and the "Temple District" Districts, with the temple district including of course the main temple Huey Teocalli, the double temple of Huitzilopochtli and Tlaloc
rekonstruktiontempelbez.jpg
(that Age of Pirates 2 picture is of the temple district. sadly, the temple district is the only Tenochtitlan area in the game)
the only possible downside to this is that the AI would attack one district and leave the other 4 alone, making it really easy for the Aztecs to keep control of the capitol unless the player was the Spanish Marshall.

Huey Teocalli (Templo Mayor) Background:

According to tradition, the Templo Mayor is located on the exact spot where the god Huitzilopochtli gave the Mexica people his sign that they had reached the promised land: an eagle on a nopal cactus with a snake in its mouth. <--- MEXICAN FLAG!!!!
500pxcoatofarmsofmexico.png

The Templo Mayor was partially a symbolic representation of the Hill of Coatepec, where according to Mexica myth, Huitzilopochtli was born. Huitzilpochtli emerged from his mother Coatlicue fully grown and fully armed to battle his sister Coyolxauhqui and her brothers the Centzon Huitznahua who intended to kill him and their mother. Huitzilpochtli was victorious, slaying and dismembering his sister. Her body was then thrown to the bottom of the hill. As the southern half of the Great Temple represented Coatepec, the great stone disk with Coyolxauhqui’s dismembered body was found at the foot of this side of the temple. The northern half represented Tonacatepetl, the mountain home of Tlaloc.
 
Sorry for double post.

Modding is really trying my patience. i cant get the weapons to spawn even though i integrated them correctly. i cant get the Find Items to work correctly, meaning i cant find the weapons i coded CORRECTLY. we really need someone who is expert at getting weapons to actually get in. also, the one time i got a gun to work, it shot crossbow bolts EVEN THOUGH I SET IT TO FIRE AND RELOAD AS A MUSKET and i had bullets with me. it used the bolts, not the bullets.
 
I used a body and head model of warband to use as base for the armor so boviously there wont be any double head

I will texture the armor myself so count can texture other things,but if I get too late them I may just send himt he armor whit the uws displaced atleast,cuz I am still busy but in like 2 weeks may be fully free to work on the mod

I guess there wont be problem in adding music of other game right?I mean legal problems though we dont get any monetary gain form this mod so I guess is all right,also the civ games does have good music

for the wonders,there is varios cities that where inhabitted by previous civ that where ruins at the time of the aztec and they even used them as zones of pilmigrage
best example is teotihuacan who was a big city of a pre aztec civilization that was huge and in fact have one of the biggest piramyds in the world,and the name was given by the aztecs and means "city of the gods" due to its monumentality and the aztec where influenced by the arts found there and other groups,so those can work for the wonders and there is plenty I think

since you want to add the maya as a faction and not being acurate,maybe we can use the cities that surrendered to the spanish as the faction cities
I mentioned before that chichen itza surrendered to the spanish but we can make it a fully city of the faction

also maya can be tricky to depicts weaponry and other stuff since theyr are not 100% know eiter but we can base them on the other groups
for example I think they used the same cottom armor but maybe it wasnt exactly like the aztec ones,and as I posted before theyr macahuitl was probably of a diferent design too
also it seems theyr armor was filled whit rock salt inside the cottom,so maybe they where more resistant than the aztec design
also they have both round and squared shields,the squared seemed to be flexible made of leather so probably where mostly a defense from proyectiles rather than melee attacks
it seem mayas didnt used so much the  proyectiles weapons like atlatl and bows and prefered close combat,it seem theyr favorite weapons where spears
this are some images of warriors from murals
Image1693.gif

as you can see they where even more extravagant than the aztecs,though is unknow if they really dressed like that for combat and the painting is just idealized
one seem to be holding  a mace,or maybe is a torch or a trumpet
worl_bonampak_l.jpg

here is one that seem to be using a atlatl or maybe a plain javelin
20070717klphisuni_160.Ies.SCO.jpg

here some dignataries,holding spears and the probably torches
it seems that mayas used breastplate but maybe it was for decoration purposes since they where hanging and not fixed
a more realistic depiction of a warrior
mayaWarrior01.jpg

as you can see the headgear was big so I guess if you want to use it you may turn to 1rst person view lol,also unlike the aztec they used heads over theyr heads instead of theyr head inside the mouths
jaina_small.jpg

pottery figure depicting a warrior in a more realistic way,and similiar to the tipical aztec armor and dressing,dont know if the thing covering the shoulder and chest is the mentioned cheastplate but is probably some jewelry
Maya%20Peten%20B.jpg

this is a interesting figure that shows a supposed helmet that was worn by the highest ranked people,aparently the helmet was made of stone so it would have been very heavy,is unknow if it was indeed used in warfare or just for parade
central_tablet.jpg

this imgae show a depiction of a shield whit the face of a war jaguar god whit crossed spears that symbolised war or just battle,dont know if the spears where so highly cuz the mural paintings dont show that but once again this are the mayans we are talking about and they where very ormanted,or maybe if those snake headed spears existed they may have been used in parades or dances
Maya%27s_warriors.jpg

and a more real depiction from the books we use as source

mayans have lot of territory,and since they will be a single faction,I guess they would right?,they may even have more than the aztecs so I guess it should be better if we give them the territory that was habited at the time of the conquest that seemed to be mostly the coasts of yucatan and by doing that we dont go so far from realism
as I said various mayans cities didnt resisted the conquest,but the mayans where fully conquered around 100 years after the first spanish arrival but offcourse they wherent at the level of the big cites,but since we are not sticking to pure realism we can make them that advanced but not so much otherwise they may take away the atention from the aztecs in my opinion

so well I guess frist we will have to choose what dressing to choose since there is tons,like tons of heagear ranging from dear heads to a whole minijaguar on top of your head to even hogs heads,and all whit long feathers
you can pass hours and hours browsing images so I sugest we decide one first and them find some reference,like you want jaguar heads them we search jaguar heads,or we made up something

buildings are easy and they where more ornamented than the other groups,though since we will choose real locations we just base form those,I think maya cities wherent so big since they where very fragmented city states

we shouldnt made much props to them so they dont look too prosperous that show they whent on the collapse that happened before

probably you want to see the movie apocalipto but I think it have various innacuraceys,for example the movie shows the maya almost naked and for the real maya that didnt looked nice and was related to criminals and thiefs,also they mixed aztec stuff too,but it have some correct stuffs

anyway whit the maya we can be more free whit theyr image since some are unknown and the maya where very pictoresque too

I guess splitting tenochtitlan would require lots of models,or maybe we just reuse
the book says that the city was technically completed destroyed in a siege that lasted like 2 months,but since we can recreate that them I guess the map would be divided into the zones whit the residential zone whit houses and the ones whitt he temples and whatever

anyway as I said I suggest we dont make the mayas so expanded or extravagant or prosperous not just cuz is not so historicaly innacurate but cuz it would require more content and models

EDIT:I forgot one important thing

before the spanish arrived at yucatan,2 spaniards washed ashore and where rescued by the local mayas,one of them joined cortes when he found them and worked as translator,the other one which proved his fighting skills to the mayans turned into a important lord and was gonzalo guerrero who decided to stay whit the maya and protect them from the spanish so he is not just a character straight from a movie but a real one too,though he was killed in a battle later,he had 3 childrens,possible the first mixed blood of the continent
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gonzalo_Guerrero
 
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