SP Antiquity [WB] TGC: Development Page.

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Aerid Thongar

The Great Circle Alpha. (WB) (S) ???

Read This BEFORE Asking Questions.
Well, after a very long sojourn, where life got, "interesting" over the last four years, I have recently returned to nosing around the forums, updated my copies of M&B and Warbands (I have four separate releases installed atm), reinstalled Pendor, SoD, TLD, and several other mods I fell in love with, I finally decided it was time I came over to this post and offered some explanations, and maybe discuss what to do next, where this project, though I let it go dormant for four years, is going to progress from here.

In all honesty, I had a lot of sh*t going down back when this project started out, and was surprised it ever made it as far as it did. I eventually ended up homeless and lost a lot of personal items, and life took me down very different paths that did not involve the internet or gaming, I grew very much to hate the former and spent most of my time playing retro stuff of the latter. The biggest blow that killed the project and caused me to lose faith in it was losing my mobile phone, which not for what it was, but for the hundreds of hours of notes and fine details about this mod that was never completely typed up, and I added to it on a daily basis.  Needless to say, it was disheartening to lose that much information, some of which will never be replaced.
But, we live and learn, and over the past few months, I've felt the call again, and dug out the old battleaxe for one more round on the military sim I have always enjoyed most, that's why I'm back here. And I love to alter my games, build my own stuff, see things come to life.

I've been rooting around a lot of my archived data, and I have around 150 various meshes in various states of completion(70% finished but untextured, 20% of guff, 10% textured) I have about 50 pages of information, textures, maps, a "dictionarium", textures, loads of stuff. I did have the module files, but no longer, I cleared out my M&B files a year ago when I broke the game engine irreparably doing something irresponsible, I forget what. Pretty sure it involved Flanged's Glasgow mod and alcohol.
So all this stuff is sitting unused, and I still get a nudge from Taelmas now and then, to pick it all up again, and I would. But I don't know the Warbands module system, don't remember a lot of Python,
and even though I got all this raw data, factions and ideas and stuff, some assembly would be required. I need some help.

I was wondering, is there anybody out there interested in getting involved? I might need a bit of reeducation, but my strengths are mostly in modelling and textures anyway, which is probably where I'd spend most of my time working. There is enough groundwork done on this mod to pick it up again, and it would combine a lot of different influences into one, although the modern release of SoD shares many parallels I see in it.

Any new work would also be aimed towards the latest release of Warbands in a reasonable world, because although I love Classic, it has many drawbacks, especially in terms of engine limitations.

Also, if anybody is interested in using some of my stuff, I'll put a box out on Nexus or Moddb if there's enough requests, to do as you see fit. There's a lot of Greek, Roman, and Arab inspired stuff, as well as some of my own creations and some really nasty looking medieval stuff. Spears, greatswords, broadswords, straight sabres, robes with belts on, scale armor and plate armor, all realistic in style, but not based on military fact, just imagination. I was 18 back then, and my skills have come a bit further in that department. Still, this community has given me a lot of entertainment for over half a decade, and its really nice to give back sometimes.

Get in touch, on here or PM me. I'm considering taking this monster off the ground again, but I'm gonna need some help to do it. Even if its just little bits of art, some sigs, or a banner. Every little thing makes a difference in the end.
What would really help is somebody who understands the basic module system, just to get a stable alpha out with a simple map and the first two basic factions, which I have a lot of completed anyway, apart from scenes and some other bits and bobs. I spent two years in and out of an animation course at college, this wasn't just thrown together, it was all part of the long term strategy, I even had several short stories and a couple of novella's planned in this world I created.
I spoke to Taelmas earlier, one of the original founders of this mod with myself, and he's also interested in being involved, albeit as support and brainstorming.
I'll leave some of that old cocky writeup lying below, just to give you an idea of what I am talking about, even if it sounds far too grand to be true.

About TGC, the Concepts behind it.

The Original Concept.
The Great Circle was something I came up with, after a series of ideas to create different mods, but which I knew had already been done. Then, I noticed the distinct lack of a truly Greek style mod, and decided that was what I would attempt.
The initial idea, was to have four Greek factions, each skilled in different areas, inhabiting the coasts and the islands of a Mediterranean sea, allied together, against invading foreign factions. This developed, and over the months these factions became less Greek inspired, and more their own.
The name "The Great Circle", came from the idea that these people would refer to their homeland, which is a geographically circular sea dotted with islands, as "The Great Circle". But as time went on, new ideas, cultures, and the ideology itself developed, they are no longer Greek, and the mod became more based upon fiction, rather than historic Greece.
As we decided upon the invading armies, the existing cultures themselves adapted too; instead of expecting bronze to be the premier metal, it became steel or iron for most of the relatively advanced cultures, and so The Great Circle grew. The native people of this Ocean were given the name Gacean, inhabiting the Gacean Ocean, and different cultures around them grew up, far and near, as we came up with the idea of Minor Factions.
Inspiration is everywhere, you only have to see it.
The mod is now far greater than the original idea ever was, on that quiet saturday afternoon, so many months ago. This M and B mod has now become a demo in itself, as one day I intend to take this forwards, and develop this as its own game, with an engine built to suit all the things I would love to see in it.
M and B is a game I love, I see no better place to start, considering that it is the gameplay of M and B that inspired TGC from the beginning.

The main philosophy behind the mod, the message behind TGC, is the power of belief. I am only 18, but I have my own impressions and perceptions of the world around me. And to me, the most powerful thing in this world, that we have, is belief. In something, in a cause, in life. Hope comes from belief. And I believe in this. In what it is.
Within TGC, every faction will follow its own religion, every faction has its own reasons for its actions, due to belief. Everyone believes that they are right to do what they do. In addition to this, the belief in Religion also takes up a large part of the mod.
Every faction of people, has its own Religion, with its own God/Gods.  They all believe in something. Because we all need something to believe in, to make our lives worthwhile.
This is probably the most important part of The Great Circle, as it is what binds it together, the people, the way of life, the actions that are taken.

I am a purist, as Kazzan proudly high fived me for. I like my games to be ethical in their strengths and weaknesses, and especially so for M and B. We are trying to make this mod as close as possible to what would be, if this actually were a real place, and not just a work of fiction.
This is why the mod is intended to contain so much detail, with vibrant and differing cultures present, and features that will make the game closer to a reality of existing in this world. I'm not creating a simulation of a fantasy world I've imagined. I'm creating IT. I don't want to settle for lesser, I want the game to be as close to the fictional world as possible.
In addition to the realism of the content, the gameplay is also going to be much more advanced. The additions to morale and suchlike will make this a totally different game to native, where you cannot succeed by just owning a large army. Just leading an army of any size will require organisation and planning into your next move.
Every action will incurr a reaction, and in this mod, you will be not just a lord with his hired thugs, but a leader of men, who follow because you are what they believe in. It will be harder, and require more thought to be put into playing, instead of just clicking, crushing an enemy army, and finding another for another bout.Even the battlefield itself will require far more work on your part, tactically as well as physically. That is why Realism is an important concept behind the mod.

Unique. It might only be six letters, but its a big word these days, and a hard one to find. So many things have been done before, but this; hasn't. Though the setting is purely fictional, as are the cultures, factions, and people contained within it, I am still doing much research into historical nations, from Ancient Babylonia, to 17th century Germany, as wide as the content of TGC is varied.
However, even in doing this, no faction is exactly historically accurate, every single one is unique, different, part of this fantasy world I am constantly expanding and adding to.  The cultures, though some inspired by fictional sources, some from real history, will all fit together seamlessly in the end. Do not expect a mod with mismatches and awkward culture clashes, flow is something that has kept the Mod interesting, bending styles to suit the mod as well as the mod to suit the style.
This will be as vibrant and interesting a mod as those that are based on history, striving for the utmost historical accuracy. I intend to surprise you with things never seen before, as well as the usage of things you will recognise in unusual ways. This won't look or play exactly the same as anything else, and that is why we always remember to keep the uniqueness of the mod at the fore.

Pushing the Boundaries.
The last idea behind TGC is to try and do things that have never been done or attempted before with M and B. There are things I want, and things I intend to get. Some, will fail. I know this. Some I know to be a solid possibility, they've been done before, just never in that way, or that level of depth.
We are going to make this very different from other mods out there. A lot of "What if?" thinking that kicked off the ideas for many of the features, just wondering what would be possible if we tried. I hope not to just push the boat out, but give it a damn good kick, and hopefully the ripples from this will inspire more modders to try new ideas and find new ways of doing things for the game.
There are some things we know are not possible, and limits to some aspects of the game, like the number of troops, and the item count, etc. But we CAN try to expand other areas, and the scripts and addons for TGC will be enormous.
Attempting to get more out of M and B is something we do without considering constantly when we're brainstorming and developing, thinking up new ways to expand upon the mod.

The Great Circle.

The History of Gacea.
This mod is large and detailed, has its own lore, its own unique setting, as well as the large and varied cultures that populate it.  It is set, on the coasts and lands around the Gacean Ocean, which, with its roughly circular shape, is referred to as "The Great Circle" by its inhabitants, for more reasons than just its shape.
These people are the Gaceans, who have a history stretching back around a thousand to two thousand years, long before they ever existed as the civilisations, nations, and city states that they are now.  This timeline begins with a man called Kikorus. In his day, Kikorus was a man born to one of the thousands of tribes that populated the Gacean lands. Little is known, little save his name remains, but it is known for certain, that this man, rose up, and conquered.
He brought the tribes together, and those who stood before him, either submitted, or they were erased from existence, from history.  At the end of his lifetime, Kikorus was the ruler of an empire, that stretched from north to south, east to west, around the Gacean Ocean. Upon his death, this empire dissolved, but the people never remained the same.
The tribal state was gone, and instead the land slowly divided up into different nations, different cultures rising to the fore. Kings declared themselves, and rule was established over the lands of Gacea. It is here, that the true history begins. Though many different people's existed, large and small, four towered above the rest, were far more advanced, larger, and richer than their neighbours.
These are the four major Gacean cultures that exist within Gacea today. Kynoss, Aegisthos, Parthae, and Helatria. They rose rapidly, because they had understood part of Kikorus's vision. A nation that stands in unity, is far stronger than one that stands alone. They made an agreement, that bound them together, that none would seek to conquer, to control more than they already had. This was named the Treaty of The Great Circle, and this is where the Gacean name for their land comes from.
Because once this Treaty was made, other, smaller nations sought to join it, to become part of this pledge not to destroy one another, but to share, to trade, and to create.
In short, this alliance of nations became the living, breathing, heart of Gacea, and for nigh on a thousand years it has stood for all they stand for, lead by the four nations that founded it.  All who live within The Great Circle, are free to journey and travel between its lands.
They rarely refer to Gacea by its name, The Great Circle is name, oath, and belief. Wars have been fought, blood has been spilled, but never on the scale that exists today in Gacea.  Because slowly, that heart is failing, the Gacean people are dissapearing from the map. Slowly, like Kikorus's empire, they may become just a legend, that will fade away.

Here and Now.
I will now explain more about the actual setting of TGC, and what is taking place in Gacea currently.
There are many different races of people, beyond the Gacean Ocean, different to those that call it home. Some are vast and powerful, very advanced and well learned, some are numerous yet still use tools of wood and bone. Some come from lands far across the seas, and some now find themselves poised upon the borders to Gacea. Not all are peaceful, and come simply to trade, and to travel. There are those that seek something they have no right to take. The freedom, the land, and the lives of the Gacean People.
These Nations, be they the invincible Legions of Praxilia, or the unending hordes of the Komchae tribesmen, are slowly draining the life from the Gacean nation. With threats on all sides, from the north, the east, the south, and the west, they find themselves assailed, and they are being pushed back. The Nations cry out for a hero, for a saviour to rise up and throw back the armies that approach.
Already, many of the smaller nations have fallen, dissapeared, their cities destroyed or conquered, their people scattered. Great nations that have dissapeared, lost to time. No matter whether the invaders are repelled, or they succeed, one thing is for certain. Blood will be spilt, before the end, and Gacea falls.


Bedroom Assassin
When you start by saying "...mod I have been building, for about 7 months now", you become interested.
So I read it all, but I like realism, and have little knowledge of the Mediterranean countries.

Good luck with it.


Sergeant Knight at Arms
Just adding white-spaces and paragraphs and all that would go a long way.

I read the post, seems pretty solid. You won't get anything from me but good vibes though. *Sends some* :razz: Best of luck.


Master Knight
Is there a particular reason you wish to develop this on the original M&B, vs Warband? Warband has the ability for multimeshed animated objects, as well as normalmapping support...

Aerid Thongar

That would be grand. Moral support to keep this ticking over, is necessary, as much as anything else. e.e Nothing would ever happen, if there was nobody to push us onwards when we begin to falter.

Aerid Thongar

We are back on it, I was away for the weekend, but College is closed due to adverse weather, leaving me with a few days and little to do. Weaponry previews coming shortly, I'm going to UV and texture a few (once Maya stops being a FREAKY BASTARD) and provide something more on here for you all to glare at.  We're also working on the details for the new Inventory and Camping system, and I'm trying to formulate a decent battle morale system involving agression, leaders, army size, typical party morale, etc. A massive amount of variables will affect the morale of your troops both on and off the battlefield, we intend to make the player think more carefully and treat their troops with more respect, more like humans.


Purist game highfive! *highfives*

If you include this morale, have an option for the soldiers to tell you what they would like to do, something like: Higher wages, better food, whatnot. Also, allow you to execute soldiers to provide an example.


Sounds interesting. I would probably fit the job description quite well, sadly I'm already engaged to another mod. :wink:

I don't understand the objections to Warband though. I am not aware of any crucial bugs that MaB doesn't have. The WB campaign is simply better than the MaB one in all aspects. There are a few technical things (custom shader support), but most mods don't need this option.

Aerid Thongar

Kazzan said:
Purist game highfive! *highfives*

If you include this morale, have an option for the soldiers to tell you what they would like to do, something like: Higher wages, better food, whatnot. Also, allow you to execute soldiers to provide an example.
Yep. These are all options I'm considering including, companions as well as NPC's will also play a part in it. You should see the awful task I've set my workmate, he's coming up with the idea's for all the NPC's, he's got the imagination for it though. Then once he's given me the list, and we decide which we use and which we don't, he's gonna write out the dialogue for most of them too.


Oh yes, you might want to type out the name of the mod in the title. The Great Circle: Alpha Development (1.011)


Hey Mate, forum looking great! :razz: as usual you have a good way of stating things and its all very clearly written and stated, keep it up, I’ll check the forum as often as school permits (Which is pretty often) and provide whatever support I can lol need anything just say I’ll see if I can find fault with anything and make whatever suggestions I can
And now as I have been wanting to for the last week i say TO WARSWORD :grin:


Good luck with those life issues. We wouldn't want the mod to die now would we?

Also, on the first page, you should use hard edges when modelling. Put hard edges on the blades of the swords, will look better.

Aerid Thongar

Most of those are actually from last summer or autumn tbh. I mesh much much better now. College work. e.e running out of time now though, starting to slap the pieces together just so I can pass, forget quality. Still, the scene I made, with 3 trees, 3 rocks, a big rock, 5 small bushes and a basic grid base. I can tell you now, that was over 50k of polys. the character for it is much better looking than anything in the scene tbh. 30-40k of poly's. o.o I'm a mesher. I do it right, to the best of my ability. I build swords differently now, with sharper blades. Sorted out axes too, I think there are some tidied up versions somewhere. And I have accidentally misplaced an entire folder of about 12 variants of maces I was gonna use, and still haven't found it. Its somewhere buried in my Users folder. I have no idea where. :/ but yeah, textures coming soon. I use Photoshop, though I suppose if I'm smart I'll start using Maya or 3DS for the materials tbh. cause Wings is crap for that. x.x Maya=The crappiest meshing software on the planet. xD you'd be better using Milkshape. tbh. Lightwave... :razz: Idk. Could I get them from Lightwave into the brf's? I like Lightwave, use it at college a lot.


Are you doing scenes in wings? Since you can just do them with enabling the editor in the menu before you launch the game, then go to a scene and press ctrl + E.

Aerid Thongar

xD I'm doing scenes for College work in Wings. but :O I didn't know that! Thankies Kazzan! I knew there was a scene editor somewhere. Just hadn't found it. o.o that makes it a lot easier. Only gotta do the new environment meshes and textures. Cities, towns, etc... plus some new scene stuff. Gonna try to make them more interesting etc, some objects dropped in and the like.


Master Knight
This looks like some great ideas, but be careful and don't overcommit yourself with it Aerid.
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