B Native Musket Era [WB] Renaissance Mod - Beta Released

[Alanor]

then they get promoted to be Doppelsoldners or Arquebusiers...

Oh yes, recruits afaik were attached to pikemen: it's for more unexperienced and poor dudes. Besides, it's often more dangerous =7

They also say that landsknecht should be dressed in rags when returning from his first campaign. After the second he should get a scar on his cheek and be able to talk a lot about dangers, battles, skirmishes and assault squads. After his third he should return soundly equipped, on a good war horse carrying a full bag of gold, and he should be able to broadcast all his money to the last penny. So I suppose these guys are between their second and third ones...

 

[Bayard-X]

In that case, it looks like the Black Bands of Calradia are looking for their fourth one: They are highly skilled. However, they already consumed all their third campaign money. Now they are back for more of it.


Higgings, VonTawast, Alanor,
Thanks for the support!



Also I wish to draw some attention to some minor update on the first page of the thread.

 

[Bayard-X]

隐藏: New Screenshots

 

[Sayd Ûthman]

Looking good

 

[Veli-Matti]

Yes everything looks pretty good so far. Are you going to add a Streltsy class to the Vaegirs?

 

[Northcott]

I see you've made use of the excellent Highlander models. They're an excellent choice to go with the high quality of gear you seem to be producing for this mod. It looks lovely overall.

Have you considered making use of of the Combat Animation Enhancement mod? http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,134185.0.html -- while the archery uses some pretty exaggerated motions, the melee combat tweaks really bring a new, lively flow to fighting.

 

[Bayard-X]

Merci, les amis.

Yes everything looks pretty good so far. Are you going to add a Streltsy class to the Vaegirs?

Frankly, they've been in the original Demo made by Kuriherbaarius. Since I don't have any indepth feeling about Eastern troops, I stuck to Kuri's designs, merely reequipping them with some items Zimke provided (big thanks, again!)

I see you've made use of the excellent Highlander models. They're an excellent choice to go with the high quality of gear you seem to be producing for this mod. It looks lovely overall.

Yes, but note, that the cuirass is made by Broken_One, it's cut out from his awesome plate which, unfortunately, has about 5000 triangles and 15000 vertices. Since this excessive count is making the item useless for any mod (it made my computer freeze when I tested it in the beginning of the mod development) I do not integrate it straightly but rather work on optimizing the mesh. I started with the cuirass, and now it has a reasonable count and mixes well with the Landsknecht suite (Together about 2752 tris and 2522 verts, LODs made with OpenBRF at 50%, 25%, 12.5% and 6.7%. ).

I also intend (intention is not a promise) mixing the plate once I optimized the arms as well with Yamabusi's Kilts. I guess, there's plenty of people around, who want to play Highlandish characters with some proud armour.

Have you considered making use of of the Combat Animation Enhancement mod? http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,134185.0.html -- while the archery uses some pretty exaggerated motions, the melee combat tweaks really bring a new, lively flow to fighting.

Well, this has to be investigated.

As for the coding, the current activities are:

• porting from 1.134 to 1.143 - however, I fear, this will be done some day before the release, when everything else is ok for beta,
• implementing the new gears, making troop trees and stuff.
• checking proposals, such as yours ^^.

 

[Northcott]

I don't think you'll be disappointed. The video previews for the new animations are phenomenal. The only one that seemed off to me was the archery -- the others create a very fluid feel to combat which would work well in most mods, I think, but in one where the panache of the Renaissance is desired, they seem particularly well-suited.

 

[Bayard-X]

I don't think you'll be disappointed. The video previews for the new animations are phenomenal. The only one that seemed off to me was the archery -- the others create a very fluid feel to combat which would work well in most mods, I think, but in one where the panache of the Renaissance is desired, they seem particularly well-suited.

I am definitively interested. The question is merely wether I find the resources (time) to integrate new code before the beta release.

 

[Veli-Matti]

I don't think you'll be disappointed. The video previews for the new animations are phenomenal. The only one that seemed off to me was the archery -- the others create a very fluid feel to combat which would work well in most mods, I think, but in one where the panache of the Renaissance is desired, they seem particularly well-suited.

I found the one-handed sword animation to become boring quite fast though.

 

[Higgings]

Yes hehe, we are plenty people to go HIGHLANDER crazy 
Again, looks great, cant wait to give it a try.
It is a interesting timeframe.

 

[Bayard-X]

We could use two textured hookpike models. They are the last items missing.

The alternative would be to overwrite them with some civilian clothing I am preparing.


(Module system cannot reduce the item number and hence the mod does not load.)

 

[matmohair1]

hope this helps 


G. Gush: "Renaissance Armies 1480 - 1650", Patrick Stephens Ltd., Cambridge, 1975.

N. M. Saxtorph and S. Bramsen: "Warriors and Weapons 3000 BC to 1700 AD in Colour", Blandford Press, London, 1975.

V. Vuksic and Z. Grbasic: "Cavalry - The History of a Fighting Elite - 650 BC - AD 1914 ", Cassel, London, 1993.

 

[Northcott]

I found the one-handed sword animation to become boring quite fast though.

That doesn't make sense to me. I mean, I can get how a certain set of animations could lose their lustre when repeated... but when compared to Native animations (which are chop, retract, chop, over and over again) I don't see how a variation that creates the illusion of smooth movement and proper swordplay is the boring option.

Anything that increases the sense of immersion in the setting is good, so far as I'm concerned. When the fighting looks more dynamic, it's made of win. The archery and polearms may not fit the setting -- but that shouldn't be too great a hurdle to overcome.

 

[Federick421]

can we get to see pike and shot tactics in formations such as skiltrons where pikemen form a polygontal ring and there are archers/crossbowmen/hand gunners are in the center. To avoid the pikemen getting hit by the misslies the pikemen crouch allowing the missile troops to fire at the enemy

 

[Veli-Matti]

That doesn't make sense to me. I mean, I can get how a certain set of animations could lose their lustre when repeated... but when compared to Native animations (which are chop, retract, chop, over and over again) I don't see how a variation that creates the illusion of smooth movement and proper swordplay is the boring option.

Anything that increases the sense of immersion in the setting is good, so far as I'm concerned. When the fighting looks more dynamic, it's made of win. The archery and polearms may not fit the setting -- but that shouldn't be too great a hurdle to overcome.

Are you saying you would actually fight like the animation if you would be excellent at handling a sword? No I didn't think so. It is too far away from reality. Yes I daresay the native animations are actually more realistic to me when you look at it.

 

[Bayard-X]

Thanks people. Your support is making the mod making worthwhile.


There have been some direct questions about the wording "missing" in my last post. Obviously, there are far more items missing by the meaning that they could fit well into the mod. The hookpikes are missing in the resources handed over to me. I do not have their mesh or texture, but they are part of the code.



Also, VonTawast and Northcott:

I am deeply thinking about what could be of use to the mod. If you check some pages in the old thread you'll find that the toppic of fencing styles has already been discussed and that I tend to favor VonTawasts stance a little more. But I also have to admit, that some more advanced moves can be very interesting to mix in every once in a while.

Anyway, I also found that the content of Papa Lazarou was integrated into the "Kunst des Fechtens" Mod currently developped by Ares007. He's done lot of litterature research on fencing and therefore may be my support on this question.


Federick421, it's good that you joint into the toppic with your question, I can say, that I also consider adding new codes for formation like carrées. Since at the period the Spanish Tercio was the state of the art, the infantry carrée formation is sufficient. The marksmen will sally out of the carrées protection every once in a while to give arquebus potshots to the enemy. I think you don't need any special formation for the markmen in that setting.

The point where it's becoming particularly fitting into the animations' discussion is where I found the following animation on PapaLazarou's Youtube site:

Pike bracing!

One word: Lovely!


And if this is switchable, we can clearly use it for the Doppelsoldners.



And finally, an update on our fellow Black Bands. They caused some confusion and opened the need for an additional band of black wearing mercenaries.

I was initially about a large band of renegade Landsknechts working for other armies than the Emperor's one. There's also a band of mercenaries in the service of the Papal State. They were actually featured in Ermanno Olmi's movie "Il mestiere delle Armi".

 

[Northcott]

Are you saying you would actually fight like the animation if you would be excellent at handling a sword? No I didn't think so. It is too far away from reality. Yes I daresay the native animations are actually more realistic to me when you look at it.

I am trained, yes. And yes, those movements do look realistic to me: from the angle of strikes and the movement and retraction of the free hand to the follow through that uses the momentum of the weapon rather than ignoring it. It's poor form to ask somebody a question and then answer it for yourself. It makes it seem as if you didn't want to hear the answer at all, but wanted to try and establish a pre-determined conclusion as if it were fact.

That said, this thread isn't about us. If you really want to continue this, feel free to PM me. This mod's got a lot of promise, and I'm impressed by the quality of work, thought, and research going into it to make a fantasy world breathe. I wouldn't want to disrespect that effort by utterly derailing a thread.


Bayard: There's a hook pike in the 15th C. Weapons mod -- I thought you were using that one? If so, is there really a need for additional hook pikes? If variety's needed for the feel of things, then run with it... but if not, then there's a couple of free slots to insert flavourful items: whether it's simply neat looking equipment that helps separate the feel of Ren mod from Native, or even 'prizes' that can be gained from swearing allegience or upping relationship with certain kings, tournament weapons, or even some companion's unique armour/weapon/whatever.

 

[Bayard-X]

隐藏: Animations continued - will not be part of the beta release

Are you saying you would actually fight like the animation if you would be excellent at handling a sword? No I didn't think so. It is too far away from reality. Yes I daresay the native animations are actually more realistic to me when you look at it.

I am trained, yes. And yes, those movements do look realistic to me: from the angle of strikes and the movement and retraction of the free hand to the follow through that uses the momentum of the weapon rather than ignoring it. [...]

That said, this thread isn't about us. If you really want to continue this, feel free to PM me. This mod's got a lot of promise, and I'm impressed by the quality of work, thought, and research going into it to make a fantasy world breathe.[...]

Well, I guess I could also try to make you two discuss this question in private hoping that you could give me some common recommendation. You could also check back with Ares007 and Papa Lazarou, preparing an OSP for reformed battle animations.

The date of beta release is coming nigher and nigher. Hence, I cannot aford burying my nose in this big beer barrel so deeply right now.

[...] This mod's got a lot of promise, and I'm impressed by the quality of work, thought, and research going into it to make a fantasy world breathe. [...]

Bayard: There's a hook pike in the 15th C. Weapons mod -- I thought you were using that one? If so, is there really a need for additional hook pikes? If variety's needed for the feel of things, then run with it... but if not, then there's a couple of free slots to insert flavourful items: whether it's simply neat looking equipment that helps separate the feel of Ren mod from Native, or even 'prizes' that can be gained from swearing allegience or upping relationship with certain kings, tournament weapons, or even some companion's unique armour/weapon/whatever.

First: Thank you very much for the nice words on the teams slow progress

I thought that I already studied the gear of the 15th Century mod. Maybe I only got an olde release without the hookpike.

Frankly spoken, there's no need for a second hookpike. The mod already contains tons of weapons. However, in the mod system code Kuriherbaarius kindly gave me, there where two of the kind. I found that deleting an item is causing severe damage to the mod - not to the save-game conformity, but mostly to the loadability.

So I followed up a strategy of reconstructing missing resources first. I can explain this topic also in depth, if it is wished.


Edit: Ok I checked Shredzorz pack again, I got the latest release, the item you mean could be the "guisarme" which I already integrated.

 

[Northcott]

Re: fighting animations.  My take on it is that Lazarou and Ares are excellent resources.  They've either paid enough attention to people with experience and/or have enough experience themselves that what they're proposing adds a new layer of depth to things. As for my personal preferences: I've no problem with M&B's default animations. Hell, I still play the mods that use 'em.

My intent was simply to point out something that offered a stylistic visual difference that wouldn't require too much effort to incorporate (Lazarou's original work) -- but I completely get that it takes time, not to mention personal preferences. I can barely find time for my own little texturing project myself.


As for the missing hookpike -- sorry to hear it. I know that can be a pain.

I learned about the item list the hard way when I deleted something while tweaking a list back in original M&B (while fooling with the 1257 mod). Suddenly troops had the weirdest equipment because the mods reference it by numbers... and the list had just been altered. Suddenly Sea Raiders were bearing down on me on horseback. I'm sure the look on my face was comical when that happened. (Not that you did something so silly -- just relating my own experience)

You're obviously waaaaaay beyond me in modding skill. I fool around with conversation trees, troop settings, and item listings for fun.   All I can do is wish you the best of luck with your beta release, and wait to see it. Personally, I'm looking forward to running around in a kilt!