B Native Musket Era [WB] Renaissance Mod - Beta Released

[thomasNL01]

because the guns are that much better, just like the halberd is faster then the pike?
Maybe the guns need to be nerfed?

 

[Roach XI the Magnificent]

@Roach XI the Magnificent:
Swadian Landsknechts and Veteran Landsknechts are actually equipped with pikes and halberds. However, as pikes are slow, AI agents tend to use the halberd instead. I think, that more cadet units should have pikes only. Less cadet units should also carry katzbalgers, but would then fight with them only. Maybe I add another type of swadian troop, Swadian Rodeleros?

Rodeleros weren't a HRE-ish unit, they were rather limited to the Spaniards. Anyway, if I had a say in what the Swadians would get, the first tier would be peasants with polearms, the second tier would be basic pikes and missiles, and the third tier would be good pikes and shot. After that some units might get halberds. Really, when one looks at the composition of a Landsknecht fahnlein, 300-350 out of 400 were generally pikes, the rest being half shot and half nco's/shock troops with polearms or swords.

 

[Captured Joe]

...the Doppelsoldners, indeed. Give those heavy armor and Zweihanders/Halberds, and the rest (ordinary Landskenchts) pikes. Missile troops (which had Doppelsoldners too) should be of another 'patch' of the troop-tree also. IMHO.

 

[YourStepDad]

Dopplesoldners as...missile troops?

This is news to me. Weren't their paid double because they were deployed on the front lines to counter charge the pikes with their zweihanders? (Hence the name)

 

[Roach XI the Magnificent]

Dopplesoldners as...missile troops?

Yes. All arquebusiers in early Landsknecht companies were doppelsoldner, or "double paid men". Doppelsoldners were reenlisted veterans, some fighting with pikes, some with guns and some with halberds/swords.

 

[Bayard-X]

@Roach XI the Magnificent:
Swadian Landsknechts and Veteran Landsknechts are actually equipped with pikes and halberds. However, as pikes are slow, AI agents tend to use the halberd instead. I think, that more cadet units should have pikes only. Less cadet units should also carry katzbalgers, but would then fight with them only. Maybe I add another type of swadian troop, Swadian Rodeleros?

Rodeleros weren't a HRE-ish unit, they were rather limited to the Spaniards. Anyway, if I had a say in what the Swadians would get, the first tier would be peasants with polearms, the second tier would be basic pikes and missiles, and the third tier would be good pikes and shot. After that some units might get halberds. Really, when one looks at the composition of a Landsknecht fahnlein, 300-350 out of 400 were generally pikes, the rest being half shot and half nco's/shock troops with polearms or swords.

Well, I know, however, a little later, there where guys called "rondartchiers", IIRC. What's your opinion to that?

 

[YourStepDad]

Although you didn't ask me, my opinion is that you may be forgetting it's Swadia we're talking about here. You can "bend" some rules.

That said, it would in my opinion be a sin not to give zweihanders to the top tier Landsknechty troops. Then again, your call.

I'd personally give the advantage of sword & buckler infantry to some other faction. Swadia can't have everything now can it?

 

[Roach XI the Magnificent]

Why not have a specific class of zweihanders? You could have the option to have either halberdiers or zweihanders, and arquebusiers or musketeers/crossbowmen, depending on how early or late the feel you're going for is.

Well, I know, however, a little later, there where guys called "rondartchiers", IIRC. What's your opinion to that?

I am not really sure how common they were, although they aren't usually associated with landsknechts - but rather, with later Imperial infantry regiments, being used as late as the 30yr war. Possibly adopted in the latter 16th century from the Spaniards.

My point is, the majority of a 16th century infantry formation was pikemen. Masses on pikemen, masses of pikemen everywhere - and the current build seems to have no more than 1/3 to 1/2 wielding pikes, if my party of Swadian Landsknechts is anything to go by.

 

[Bayard-X]

Although you didn't ask me, my opinion is that you may be forgetting it's Swadia we're talking about here. You can "bend" some rules.

That said, it would in my opinion be a sin not to give zweihanders to the top tier Landsknechty troops. Then again, your call.

I'd personally give the advantage of sword & buckler infantry to some other faction. Swadia can't have everything now can it?

Your opinion is welcome.

Actually, I never intended to get rid of the Zweihaender-Doppelsoeldners.

... however, now I seriously consider reforming the Swadian footmen, ... with them "learning off from the pike" - as they say in German or so.

What about katzbalgers ?

My point is, the majority of a 16th century infantry formation was pikemen. Masses on pikemen, masses of pikemen everywhere - and the current build seems to have no more than 1/3 to 1/2 wielding pikes, if my party of Swadian Landsknechts is anything to go by.

... I guess I have responded to that now. If not, insist. 

 

[Roach XI the Magnificent]

What about katzbalgers ?

You'll have a bunch of troops named "pikemen", running around with short swords.

 

[Bayard-X]

What about katzbalgers ?

You'll have a bunch of troops named "pikemen", running around with short swords.

I was thinking more about how to circumvent this issue. 


But I now decided to give the katzbalger to the ranged units. 

 

[Druzhina]

Illustrations of Ottoman Soldiers from Nicolas de Nicolay's Peregrinations faites en Turquie, 1577
Turkish Janissary playing the zither. Ic Oglan of the devsirme.
Ic Oglan. Janissary trainee who works on a farm.
Janissary going to war.
Janissary foot soldier of the usual guard of the Great Lord
Boluk Bashi
Aga, Captain General of the Janissaries
Solak, ordinary archer of the guard of the Great Lord.
Dress and old way of Peyk or servant of the Great Lord.
Drunken Turks belonging to Ic Oglans, Levents and Azabs
Turkish Cook
Kadi el Askar. The Executor of the Laws in Turkey.
Deli which signifies fool-hardy.

HISTOIRE DES TURCS, TOME SECOND, by Blaise de Vigenere. Paris, 1663.:
A version including the plate descriptions in French:

Mirror Site:
Illustrations of Ottoman Soldiers from Nicolas de Nicolay's Peregrinations faites en Turquie, 1577

Druzhina
Illustrations of Ottoman Costume & Soldiers

 

[anakonda]

Anything new haven't been some posting for a while?

 

[Bayard-X]

Another leg of work will start November, 2nd.

However, I won't post as much as in the past as it tends to lead to additional pressure.

 

[Druzhina]

Italians

St George by Carpaccio, c.1500. The saint is shown as a fully equipped Venetian man-at-arms, though without a helmet
A 1506 print of the Battle of Fornovo 1495

Young Knight in a Landscape, 1510 by Vittore Carpaccio
Portrait Of A Florentine In Armour c.1510 attributed to Francesco Granacci
The French recapture of Genoa Le Voyage de Gênes (The Journey to Genoa) by Jean Marot, 1510-1520
Entry of Charles VIII into Florence by Francesco Granacci, 1518
The siege of Padua 1521 by Niccolò degli Agostini
Emperor Charles V in procession after his coronation by Pope Clement VII in Bologna, 1530, by Nicolaus Hogenberg
The Oath of Sermide by Girolamo Genga, 1530-31
Portrait of a Warrior by Dosso Dossi, 1530s
Tournament Fresco Cycle by Marcello Fogolino, c.1535

Druzhina
Italian Illustrations of Costume & Soldiers

 

[Bayard-X]

Thanks!

 

[Druzhina]

15th Century Burgundian Soldiers in Le Roman d'Alexandre

Sanson of Ailly delivers his message to Nicolas King of Armenia
The death of Nicolas of Armenia
The presents of Darius to Alexander
Siege of Tyre
Battle of the Macedonians against the inhabitants of Gaza
Betis & his army leave Gaza
The reconcilliation between Cassamus of the Laris & Eumenes of Kardia
Alexander at the Temple of Mars, near Ephesus
Fighting before Ephesus
The Macedonians are volunteers to the pits of Ephesus - Gadifer of Lari
Prisoners Porus, Cassiel the Baudrain and Marcian are by Alexander
The death of Philip of Macedonia - Alexander comes to the rescue of Olympias
The army of Pausanias emerging from Aigai - Alexander avenges the death of his father
The oracle of Apollo
Alexander receives the messengers of Darius
The god Ammon comes to visit Alexander in a dream
The Battle of Granicus, the first battle between the Macedonians and Persians
The Bath of Alexander - Alexander's disease - The execution of Parmenio
The Battle of Issus, the second battle between the Macedonians and Persians
The assassination of Darius

MIRROR SITE
15th Century Burgundian Soldiers in Le Roman d'Alexandre

Druzhina
15th Century Illustrations of Costume & Soldiers

 

[Bayard-X]

Thanks again!

Browsing these pretty miniatures I feel they stem from the last episode of the Hundred-Years-War. Am I right?

 

[Druzhina]

Thanks again!

Browsing these pretty miniatures I feel they stem from the last episode of the Hundred-Years-War. Am I right?

Yes, from the reign of Phillip the Fair (Phillip the Good) (r. 1419-1467).

Druzhina
Illustrations of Costume and Soldiers

 

[Bayard-X]

The team of the Renaissance Mod wishes you all a happy Christmas and a prosperous New Year 2013.