B Native Musket Era [WB] Renaissance Mod - Beta Released

[Bayard-X]

That was a **** move...

?



Edit:

If you mean the use of WFaS I disagree: Before I checked back with Caba´drin, the following was the state of the information:

By the way, i don't think it's allowed to use wfas stuff at least it wasn't last time i checked, sadly

Am I to gather they're from with Fire and Sword? And did you ask the developers if you could have their models?

Of course, otherwise I wouldn't  implement their models. They gave permission for non-commercial use.

It won't be allowed only if Bayard decides to sell the mod

I can assure you that no ****ing was intended.


If you mean Cerealis' post I disagree, too. He's having his sense of humour - which I like - and just made an uncouth statement on further consequences. It's rather not dicky. I cover Cerealis fully.

I'm sorry. Due all respect: I think you should explain your point a little to avoid misunderstanding.

 

[Evil Cereal]

If you mean Cerealis' post I disagree, too. He's having his sense of humour - which I like - and just made an uncouth statement on further consequences. It's rather not dicky. I cover Cerealis fully.

Ah, I'm glad. I was just reading through the credits and still saw the WFaS dev team listed there, so I just wanted to say that you should probably update it 

 

[Sayd Ûthman]

I didn't meant any of you but wfas team for cancelling permission they have given. this is just....

 

[Evil Cereal]

I didn't meant any of you but wfas team for cancelling permission they have given. this is just....

Dicky, as you said. Yeah.

 

[Bayard-X]

I don't even see that in a dicky way, either.

If I understand it there's a lot of good reason they did so.

First, they put some considerable more work in their game than we put into this mod. Remember, we're past timers not professionals. So, if you can get their gear in a WB mod, who still wanted to buy the WFaS Game?

Second, we are not more privileged than other mods. Let's be all equal and stay that way. If they refuse permission to others why not also to us?


And still I want to stress that this makes ground for making the Renaissance Mod better than it currently is. I really should up some screenies right now.

 

[Sayd Ûthman]

I would have understand if they said no from the starting, but saying yes and cancelling after some time is'nt fine

 

[Bayard-X]

I'm working on replacing the cabasset and some hats.


Ok, the hat depicted here is still heavily WIP and maybe disproportionate. Also the female headwear was started without any references and is somewhat wrong. UV mapping extreme curvatures is painful.

So I have to play around some more, but I won't have the time in the next 4 days. Daily life is demanding its tributes. I bet the cabasset is finished next sunday.

隐藏

 

[Evil Cereal]

Oh, nice hat textures! Maybe you could establish the Imperium Abecedum Funkiae, and equip them with those! 


...Will there also be plumey cabassets? I know that it probably isn't accurate, but it would look good. At least for me! 


MORE PLUMES FOR THE PLUMEY EMPIRE!

 

[Bayard-X]

Oh, nice hat textures! Maybe you could establish the Imperium Abecedum Funkiae, and equip them with those! 

Oh, that's merely the UV-Mapping thing. I can smash a mesh in three quarters of an hour, but texturing takes millenia.

...Will there also be plumey cabassets? I know that it probably isn't accurate, but it would look good. At least for me! 


MORE PLUMES FOR THE PLUMEY EMPIRE!

If I find some reference where to stick how many, yes. Good thing about this cabasset is that it will be a little more worthy than the old WFaS one since it will get specs and normals.


... and Narf's Metal Base! 

 

[Sayd Ûthman]

Looking good, although you may have to pay attention to that lady's hat's polycount, i can see it's kinda high from the very detailled curve

 

[Evil Cereal]

If I find some reference where to stick how many, yes. Good thing about this cabasset is that it will be a little more worthy than the old WFaS one since it will get specs and normals.

Hey, look I completely accidentally found a reference!:

隐藏

 

[Bayard-X]

Looking good, although you may have to pay attention to that lady's hat's polycount, i can see it's kinda high from the very detailled curve

About 1100 and I make LODs. For the comparison: Deja's Weimarian Armet is at 1135 or something. His Milanese Sallet at about 1700 and his coloured buckets at about 800. If these don't call issues there will be no trouble with the girls' hat. Also I use smart meshing / texturing strategies. E.g. if there's a convex edge in the mesh, it'll be better as a highlight, and flats can be used for "valleys". Hence it may seem more smooth than the mesh actually was. Have a look at the mesh and feel free to comment

隐藏

I guess there won't be issues even if there ever was a party with fourty girls wearing that. And it's highly unlikely that one day your castle will be besieged by an army of 400 angry damsels.  I also rather conceived it to be merchant's wife's gear, so the occasional female merchant may have it.


@ Cerealis:
Yes, I figured that'd be it, too.

 

[Zimke Zlovoljni]

Ze hats looks really nice =)

 

[Bayard-X]

Ze hats looks really nice =)

Thanks!

 

[Sayd Ûthman]

Oh, that's surprising, i tought it has more triangles, nice job

 

[Bayard-X]

 

[dinnerdog2zero]

After downloading and playing the beta i just want to say that this mod is looking great and i cant wait for the full release. The renaissance is one of my favourite periods of history and i love the transition of Calradia from the 13th to 16th century. Keep up the good work!

 

[Bayard-X]

Starting from Cerealis' links on firearms, I thought my way through gun locks for the mod.

• Matchlocks - A definitve must, with serpentine and lever
• Wheellocks - Seem somewhat "advanced" for 1520s but seem to have been around. Maybe as a very expensive weapon and for highest tier units only
• Snaplocks - Ancestors of flintlocks. Since the 1540s. IMHO out of scope.
• Handgonnes - Cumbersome but could be used non the less...

As I noted in my ASCIIs, the removal of WFaS BRFs creates a need for

	* 24 guns (maybe 16 are sufficient?)

to be replaced.

Arquebuses where like "light" weaponry, muskets like "heavy" - note that however, the name musket was first documented in the 1560s and is therefore extremely advanced... rather it should discribe longer arquebuses. Alternatively the muskets may be like more Khergit/Sarranid weapons. Maybe the two free slots should also be Khergit/Sarranid stuff.

Suggested list:

[list type=decimal]
[*]Primitive Handgonne
[*]Siege Handgonne
[*]Small caliber serpentine matchlock arquebus
[*]Mid caliber serpentine matchlock arquebus

[*]Small caliber lever matchlock arquebus
[*]Mid caliber lever matchlock arquebus
[*]Large caliber lever matchlock arquebus

[*]Large caliber lever matchlock musket
[*]Siege caliber lever matchlock musket

[*]Small caliber lever matchlock cavalry arquebus
[*]Mid caliber lever matchlock cavalry arquebus
[*]Mid caliber wheellock cavalry arquebus

[*]Large caliber wheellock musket
[*]Siege caliber wheellock musket

[*]to be defined
[*]to be defined
[/list]

 

[Coal Field]

Actually, you would be pretty surprised.

Wheel locks were developed in the late 15th century. Scholars debate whether Leonardo DaVinci made it. It would have been only in the hands of very rich lords, as they were very difficult to make and maintain. Most wheel locks were used by what we would now call a "cuirassier," a man usually in partial to full plate armour, with a half inch size calibre barrel. It typically weighed between 4-7 pounds and had a rather heavy, decorative butt pommel. Most men of serious means had one.

The arquebus or matchlock was probably invented around 1475 in Germany. "Hackenbüsche" in German/Dutch. It would have been the predominant weapon of the period in the hands of elite musketeers or "arquebusiers." They frequently used a fork placed into the ground as a sort of tripod to balance the weapon, ringing in at around 13-20lbs depending on the model. Most armies of the Renaissance (depending on where you start and end it) had only up to 1/4 of their army with firearms. There were major exceptions, such as The Black Army of Hungary under Matthias Corvinus. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_army_of_hungary

The other firearm of the period was the handgonne (it has various spellings and names).

This was a variable sized bronze or less often iron barrel, usually on the end of a stick or pole, lit by hand. Hard to fire, it was sometimes shot by two men. They were also sometimes shot over a cut out in a Pavise shield.

If you want, I send you extremely high quality scans of swords, pikes, shields, armour, polearms, daggers, firearms and battlefields of the period. I have an extensive collection of firearm books and history books on the period for your modeler/texturer and can offer you whatever advice you'd need on muzzle velocities and other things.

Hope that helps

Michelle

 

[Coal Field]

The snaplock would probably be out of the time period, because while it was invented around the 1540s or so, it didn't see general use for another few years. The contract system in place for making weapons in the Renaissance was kind of bizarre. Plus every gun was hand made and virtually none of the parts were interchangeable.

I would rely on various calibre/bore matchlocks for higher ranked soldiers and handcannons for the lower tier. Dont' discredit the use of the crossbow. It reached quite a zenith during this period, especially in Italy. The real benefit of a firearm was it's psychological impact. It was loud, violent, smoky, and gave off intense heat. It often scared men in battle and was used for this effect quite widely.

There were other, various forms of unique combination weapons and experimental firearms made during this period as well, so it wouldn't be out of place to put a quest item in for a unique "snaplock" or something like that.

Just make sure pistols double as a short, heavy mace. Most early pistols had very reinforced ends to use in melee for blunt trauma.

For gameplay purposes, until you can get a custom animation for reloading a matchlock (like blowing on the match to keep it lit and working with the serpetine and flash pan) just making them rather slow to reload would be a proper offset.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeZvMgeITYs This offers you a pretty good idea of how some of the hand cannons of the era worked. They were often lit with a match in the touch hole to fire.

EDIT
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xN6OLApKSmk This is also VERY good. It shows you a quick clip of some early firearms, from the battle of Pavia in 1525. Some great ideas there.


Michelle