Do they exist in the Warhammer universe though? It sounds like a blackpowder era term, which feels really inappropriate and weird.
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The Empire has Greatswords who are basically landschekret... erm yeah, and they have ''Free Companies'' who are a militia force.
I know the empire was hugely based on the HRE, that's not what I'm saying. Landskenchts belong to the renaissance era which is what the warhammer universe is for the most part based on, landwehrs were as far as i know german military conscripts of the blackpowder era (1700's onwards) It would be anachronistic like using terms such as carabineer, rifleman etc. in a medievalesque fantasy setting.
Yeah, there are factions with Gatling guns, there's a faction that uses gear from the 1300's at best.
Nonetheless, from what my quick search tells me there are neither carabineers, landwehr nor riflemen in Warhammer. 40k is something else entirely.
Thing here is, landwehr is a distinctively European word/term mostly associated with Napoleonic wars. It (to my knowledge) does not exist in the Warhammer fantasy universe, thus making it both made up and IMO out of style for the warhammer universe.
Thing here is, landwehr is a distinctively European word/term mostly associated with Napoleonic wars. It (to my knowledge) does not exist in the Warhammer fantasy universe, thus making it both made up and IMO out of style for the warhammer universe.
They're called handgunners, there's also the Hochland Long Rifle
Glad to see the work is being continued - happy enough that it will be MP based, although an SP campaign would have been fantastic. I'll keep my eyes on how the MP version turns out
Re: The above conversation...
YourStepDad is pretty much correct. The only 'common'* handheld rifled weapon in the Empire is the Hochland Long Rifle. Handgunners utilise smoothbore weapons** which means they are most certainly not in any way 'riflemen'. If anything they are akin to C15th/C16th arquebusiers - the Hochland Long Rifle is an incredibly expensive weapon in the Empire and is typically only wielded by proven marksmen & engineers (particularly those from Hochland & Nuln). There are no caribiniers or Landwehr either - the pistol-wielding, plate wearing Pistoliers are based on the C16th/C17th Reiter, whilst the militia are named 'Free Company' - which was a medieval tag for a band of mercenaries although GW has used it as a catch-all term for irregular foot units in the Empire army.
The whole lot is a mish-mash of various things. For example the Handgunners have handguns which are equipped with a flintlock mechanism, which is a C17th development but are clad in clothing reminiscent of the early Renaissance. The Hochland Long Rifle has a telescope mounted (which historically dates from C19th) but retains a C16th/17th musket rest (with 'boxes' of powder hanging from the fork on the model). It's all a bit of a headache trying to define it all exactly.
Either way 'Landwehr' should be replaced with either Militia or Free Company & 'musketmen' should be replaced with Handgunner, in the interests of keeping to the terms used by GW in their setting.
*Whilst I say 'common', it's the only handheld rifled weapon we know of in the Empire and it's rather rare. The Ostlanders, being Ostlanders, have a unique double-barrelled version because a Hochland engineer once sold fused two barrels together on a pistol, sold it to an Ostlander for double the price. The Ostlanders loved it so much that he did the same with the Long Rifle. Crazy fellows those Ostlanders - so long as it's flashy, they want it.
**Pistols, Repeater Pistols, Duelling Pistols, Handguns & Repeater Handguns are all smoothbore weapons. This is obvious in the price difference as a Handgun is 35 gold crowns (gc) whilst a Hochland Long Rifle is 200gc (Ostland Double Rifle is 300gc). Source on weapon prices: Mordheim Rulebook & 2002 Annual, as well as editions of Town Crier (Note: Within the Mordheim books the Long Rifle is referred to both as the Long Rifle and as a Hunting Rifle).
Re: The above conversation...
YourStepDad is pretty much correct. The only 'common'* handheld rifled weapon in the Empire is the Hochland Long Rifle. Handgunners utilise smoothbore weapons** which means they are most certainly not in any way 'riflemen'. If anything they are akin to C15th/C16th arquebusiers - the Hochland Long Rifle is an incredibly expensive weapon in the Empire and is typically only wielded by proven marksmen & engineers (particularly those from Hochland & Nuln). There are no caribiniers or Landwehr either - the pistol-wielding, plate wearing Pistoliers are based on the C16th/C17th Reiter, whilst the militia are named 'Free Company' - which was a medieval tag for a band of mercenaries although GW has used it as a catch-all term for irregular foot units in the Empire army.
The whole lot is a mish-mash of various things. For example the Handgunners have handguns which are equipped with a flintlock mechanism, which is a C17th development but are clad in clothing reminiscent of the early Renaissance. The Hochland Long Rifle has a telescope mounted (which historically dates from C19th) but retains a C16th/17th musket rest (with 'boxes' of powder hanging from the fork on the model). It's all a bit of a headache trying to define it all exactly.
Either way 'Landwehr' should be replaced with either Militia or Free Company & 'musketmen' should be replaced with Handgunner, in the interests of keeping to the terms used by GW in their setting.
*Whilst I say 'common', it's the only handheld rifled weapon we know of in the Empire and it's rather rare. The Ostlanders, being Ostlanders, have a unique double-barrelled version because a Hochland engineer once sold fused two barrels together on a pistol, sold it to an Ostlander for double the price. The Ostlanders loved it so much that he did the same with the Long Rifle. Crazy fellows those Ostlanders - so long as it's flashy, they want it.
**Pistols, Repeater Pistols, Duelling Pistols, Handguns & Repeater Handguns are all smoothbore weapons. This is obvious in the price difference as a Handgun is 35 gold crowns (gc) whilst a Hochland Long Rifle is 200gc (Ostland Double Rifle is 300gc). Source on weapon prices: Mordheim Rulebook & 2002 Annual, as well as editions of Town Crier (Note: Within the Mordheim books the Long Rifle is referred to both as the Long Rifle and as a Hunting Rifle).
Archillego
Recruit
This models very good. Good luck.
I'm glad someone has taken this on board. The original mod was far too ambitious and with bannerlord only around the corner starting a whole new single player mod now seems a waste. (For those who don't know, a multiplayer mod in general requires far less work).
The big questions i have though are how are the different classes going to be balanced? Obviously this sort of battle will be asymmetrical, will there be limits however on classes? Some sort of points based system? Or will the classes just be balanced so none has a direct advantage? (My least favourite option)
I think its important that a chaos warrior is as powerful as they appear. That way when i play a plucky empire swordsmen my victories will be all the sweeter
As a final point I agree that 'landwehr' should be renamed to just Free Company Militia or something along those lines. Landwehr isn't a fantasy term. Also it is not possible to give these units randomised gear? Assuming you are basing your mod on the NW base (as you have set classes), can this unit not replace partisans?
The big questions i have though are how are the different classes going to be balanced? Obviously this sort of battle will be asymmetrical, will there be limits however on classes? Some sort of points based system? Or will the classes just be balanced so none has a direct advantage? (My least favourite option)
I think its important that a chaos warrior is as powerful as they appear. That way when i play a plucky empire swordsmen my victories will be all the sweeter
As a final point I agree that 'landwehr' should be renamed to just Free Company Militia or something along those lines. Landwehr isn't a fantasy term. Also it is not possible to give these units randomised gear? Assuming you are basing your mod on the NW base (as you have set classes), can this unit not replace partisans?
First of all, the mod is based on Warband. It means, that equip randomization is possible, but rather hard to make witout an experienced scripter, whom we have not. Moreover, it's not exactly needed, in my opinion.
Concerning the balance - well, I managed to make some simple scripts. One of them limits speed of all Chaos Warriors\Crushers\Champions very much with obvious consequences for balance. And yes, they will be as strong and armored, as they used to be planned in SP.
On the other hand, Empire troops will posess VERY powerful handguns. Even weakest ones will be able to penetrate CWs' armor. In fact, handguns (and some specialised weapons, like Zweihanders or heavy halberds) are planned to be only weapons to crush through shields and heavy armor. So yeah, pity spearmen will suffer
Concerning the balance - well, I managed to make some simple scripts. One of them limits speed of all Chaos Warriors\Crushers\Champions very much with obvious consequences for balance. And yes, they will be as strong and armored, as they used to be planned in SP.
On the other hand, Empire troops will posess VERY powerful handguns. Even weakest ones will be able to penetrate CWs' armor. In fact, handguns (and some specialised weapons, like Zweihanders or heavy halberds) are planned to be only weapons to crush through shields and heavy armor. So yeah, pity spearmen will suffer
Correct me if I'm wrong, but is this mostly about the elite of the Empire vs Chaos? I'm not hugely familiar with fantasy, but the Empire overall seem far more armoured and armed than I would have expected.
Would another way of balancing chaos be making both sides less effective at blocking and the Empire troops must dodge and weave between strikes.
Would another way of balancing chaos be making both sides less effective at blocking and the Empire troops must dodge and weave between strikes.
Mostly regulars versus regulars. Greatswords and pistoliers are surely elite troops, but they are not alone here.
I'm not sure if I got right your second statement, but we're going to forbid blocking for berserkers, for examples, in exchange for high attack speed. Some other weapons won't be able to block with, too.
I'm not sure if I got right your second statement, but we're going to forbid blocking for berserkers, for examples, in exchange for high attack speed. Some other weapons won't be able to block with, too.
I was thinking slowed blocking for the warriors, not removing it entirely.
