Superetty

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Oh great! I am so happy to hear that! From what I have seen, it will be a very well made mod, both in gameplay and scripting. Take your time to finish it. And plus, you can be sure that when you will have done a first version, many people will download it. It is thank to modders like you who create innovative mods that this game has become what it is.
 

SupaNinjaMan

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M&BWBWF&SNWVC
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Hey, guys! Just wanted to pop in with a quick video about what I worked on this week.


It's just me playing and showing the features that I put in today without any editing and without a script. So, if you know me, you know it's ten minutes longer than it needs to be and I rant so long I lose the point of what I was saying in the first place.

Boiled down to the essentials, I overhauled the magecraft system so I could implement very basic AI usage of magecraft, I made a new preliminary combat script for Servants to add some length and drama to battles, and then I show off a few art assets I pooped out.

Anyways if you have questions/comments/concerns feel free to drop them in the thread, reach out to me on Discord (dstn#9582), or however else you might feel comfortable sharing your ideas with me.

I appreciate all the support, it's honestly a huge surprise to me, and I hope to hear from y'all soon.


EDIT: ( 5/18 )
Doing my best King Hassan-i-Sabbah impersonation after doing a rough in of his sword.
 
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SupaNinjaMan

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M&BWBWF&SNWVC
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One of the most memorable, and most exciting, part of any Holy Grail War is the point when the protagonist is trying to figure out who each servant is, who their master is, and how to defeat them. Unfortunately, their character designs are designed to be instantly recognizable, being that this is a franchise that brings in Billions.

In other media, they have gotten around this by using new Servants that people cannot recognize as they didn’t exist before this piece of media. Unfortunately for us, the draw to a mod will be the reuse of favorite characters, so this option is unavailable to us.
So, how can we accomplish this?
  1. Purposefully obscure the characters from the player.
    • Perhaps by wearing obfuscating clothing, using shader tricks to make them appear cloudy, using particle effects to make their silhouette obscured.
    • This feels weak, and like it could be easily ignored by a player who knows what the individual servants look like.
  2. Use alternative models until certain thresholds have been reached.
    • Maybe having the servants look like their “chess piece” or tarot card variations. Smooth, gold, nondescript characters whose stats, abilities and equipment stay but with just the appearances obscured.
    • Allow different stages of obviousness, sort of like ascensions in FGO. Maybe first revealing their weapons, with more distinct items being revealed as the player's knowledge increases.
  3. Don’t, and just make it the Player Character who doesn’t know, despite the Player themselves knowing.
    • This would be the easiest option, obviously. This is the path taken with Fate/ Extra, such that you do not get bonuses against the enemy unless you go research and discover enough about them. This of course causes an awkward situation where the Player is in a place of knowledge, but cannot use that organically. I feel this is the weakest option.
What do y'all think? I think the second option would be neat, even if it would take more work on my end.
 
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Superetty

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Indeed the second option would be the best, but I think it's a minor feature for now. You could work on that on final stages of the game or even giving the choice to players to have this feature implemented by downloading a patch. Just a question about this point: how will servant appear? Like totally obscured? Will we basically see shadows fighting?
 

SupaNinjaMan

Baron
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
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7
At this point they appear just as another troop on the battlefield. They stand out because their equipment it obviously quite eye-catching, they move quite quickly and they absolutely wreck anything they come into contact with.

I am still tweaking their AI, as I want to give the masters more time to make support decisions and swing the tide of battle. Currently with some luck evenly matched servants can have duels go on for a few minutes, but it's still pretty common for Lancers to wreck people by the way I have the decision tree currently set up. Right now it's way too simple, but it looks like:

When within seven meters of an enemy start thinking:
  • Is my weapon longer?
    • If Yes, move to keep the enemy within the range of my weapon - 5 cm, but outside the range of my enemy's weapon + 5 cm.
    • If No, move forward and keep enemy within my weapon's length but further than 50 cm away.
    • If I'm already in my sweet spot, try to emulate the way players sort of move in random directions.
  • Am I attacking?
    • If No, and the enemy is attacking block in the appropriate direction.
When closer than five meters, but further away than two meters, walk slowly so that a running servant doesn't accidentally get a sneak hit in an insta-end the battle. Unless the targetted enemy is fleeing, then full footspeed.

This makes for an okay back and forth currently, but they are extremely limited. Also, ranged attacks are not considered. So I'll probably make a sister system for ranged decision making.

I am going to add feinting, and attack direction changing to this system, which will take no time at all, and layer a more broad, high level decision making system on top of this. Like taking into consideration whether or not they can reasonably win the one-on-one, personality and mood, health and mana levels, etc.


EDIT: 6/7
Spent a few hours making a new quick battle presentation in order to expedite battle testing. (Thanks Superetty for the idea!) Each square is a different servant. The left column is the Knight classes (Saber, Lancer and Archer), the left is the Cavalry Classes (Rider, Caster, Assassin) and the bottom row is Berserkers.

The very top row is going to be a scrolling row of all available masters. I still need to make it where you set which team you're selecting for, I was thinking of just having checkboxes, really rudementary.
The left checkbox allows the player to swap between master and servant, and the right changes what team you are selecting for. I'm probably going to add a scrollbar in the middle for different options. No Masters, No Servants, Bot Battle, etc.


Audio mixing warning! Gameplay is muuch louder than my voice.


I think I'm going to port over everything relevant to this to my Barebones MS and make a small demo. It will take a bit of work just from all the natural dependencies you accidentally form with Native globals and the like, but shouldn't take too long.
 
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SupaNinjaMan

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M&BWBWF&SNWVC
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I've done a few hours of work with the standalone quick battle demo:
  • The errors are all gone!
  • It boots straight from the main menu!
  • Player magic casts are working!
    • This means that I can test active servant skills like noble phantasms and magic now!
    • Before I was testing them by placing the script on a weapon attack, but now I can be the servant, so this will be interesting.
  • Mana hud is back in (a pretty hacky) working condition and reflects the current character being played!
    • This also lets me know that an in-battle mana restoration is necessary
Things I would like to add before making the demo available:
  • Differentiate each master
    • Assigning them relevant spell slots, equipment, etc.
  • Fix battle AI for ranged/magic-using servants
    • This includes me adding to the AI magic system to allow the servants to cast their magic/skills and do things like summon minions
  • Fix battle skills like Battle Continuation
    • Right now the servants seem to be ignoring their respawn scripts inside of the quick battle, but still do resurrections on field battles. . .
  • Add more settings for the Quick Battle Menu
    • Things like No Servants, No Regen, No Magic, No Noble Phantasm, No Items, Fox Only, Final Destination, etc.
  • More 3D art Assets.
  • An actual scene to test in.
    • Right now you're spawning in on a random battle field flanked by the question mark shaped skeletons of non-included scene props.



(6/14)
I have thought about overhauling the magic system. I want to reward campaign players for focusing on their chosen element of magic, so giving each an offensive, defensive, and buff/debuff tree would be a good way to make them each viable and more balanced but still unique and rewarding. With a branches of specialized spells accessible with the right origin and education.


(6/15)
I roughed in charged attack mechanic, with attacks that are charged dealing more damage and different archers reaping different benefits from charging. (Just more arrows in their volley or stronger shots right now)
 
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Kerchu

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I apologize in advance for asking questions that may have already been answered or for asking slightly "innocent" questions regarding the development that would come with it.
Regarding the appearance of the servants, I read that the possibility of putting the existing Servants would ruin the experience of guessing what kind of Servant it is, but still plan to implement the existing Servants? that is, Artoria, Gilgamesh, etc ...
Now as a mere curiosity, will the characters of the universe be present (Shirou, Rin, etc.)?
Relating to the previous one in case this is true or as an independent question in case the previous question has a negative answer, will the mod have a story? Will it be linked to the history of the universe as a "parallel" or as a continuation of it?
I reiterate my initial apologies, I do not seek to suffocate the developer (which in itself must be suffocated to convert M&B into, we could say, a new game).
I look forward to the arrival of this mod !!
 

SupaNinjaMan

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M&BWBWF&SNWVC
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I apologize in advance for asking questions that may have already been answered or for asking slightly "innocent" questions regarding the development that would come with it.
No, I appreciate every question, and will more than happily answer something again.

Regarding the appearance of the servants, I read that the possibility of putting the existing Servants would ruin the experience of guessing what kind of Servant it is, but still plan to implement the existing Servants? that is, Artoria, Gilgamesh, etc ...
Now as a mere curiosity, will the characters of the universe be present (Shirou, Rin, etc.)?
It depends on the mode. So in the initial release it will have Calradia Grail War mode in which the six opponent masters (or seven if you abstain) will be Masters from other Grail Wars, chosen completely at random spawned into the world via hand-wavy mumbo jumbo.

I want to eventually do a mode recreating the Fifth Fuyuki Grail War, with all the canon master-servant relationships and the player choosing the master they embody. That one will be more like a third-person RPG without a world map and the player moving around the world and going around Fuyuki themselves.

There will be other modes too, some with fixed masters, and other with randomized magi, but the idea is to basically have nearly every canon master in the game, and have them operate inside the world, even if it's just as freelance magi or hitmen or whatever.

I will put a masterlist at the bottom of this post of all Masters and their source in canon.

Relating to the previous one in case this is true or as an independent question in case the previous question has a negative answer, will the mod have a story? Will it be linked to the history of the universe as a "parallel" or as a continuation of it?
I want to have various modes representing different Grail Wars, some without stories, and some with. However, most are parallel universes.

Like, the Calradian Grail War is a parallel universe and will be more along the lines of a pseudo-Singularity ala FGO, and should have a system to make emergent stories, but not fixed story.

And alternatively, I hope to get a working Fate/ Extra style dungeon crawler with randomized maps, and that will have a fixed story based on servant choice and more of a continuation or spin off of the Extra-verse following a different Moon Cell War.

Of course, every alternate mode idea balloons the scope, so for now my focus will be on modes like the Calradian Grail War that are mostly randomized with very light story and more basically just an excuse to have a Battle Royale with Heroic Spirits.

I reiterate my initial apologies, I do not seek to suffocate the developer (which in itself must be suffocated to convert M&B into, we could say, a new game).
I look forward to the arrival of this mod !!
Once again, no worries, I appreciate the enthusiasm. My conversations with people in this thread has made for some of my best ideas, so I'm more than willing to keep it up.
Welcome to the Taleworlds forums!


All masters listed are available in game, but none are currently differentiated from one another.

Servant Color Codes:
(Useable, Implemented but Unusable or Alternate Form Useable, Not Chosen for Implementation)

########Fate/ SN - Hollow Ataraxia Masters
  • Shirou Emiya (Artoria, Saber)
  • Rin Tohsaka (EMIYA, Archer)
  • Illyasviel von Einzbern (Heracles, Berserker)
  • Sakura Matou (Medusa, Rider)
  • Shinji Matou (Medusa, Rider)
  • Souichirou Kuzuki (Medea, Caster)
  • Kirei Kotomine (Cu Chulainn, Lancer)
  • Zouken Matou (Hassan of the Cursed Arm, True Assassin)
  • Bazett Fraga McRemitz (Cu Chulainn, Lancer)
  • medea (Sasaki Kojirou, False Assassin)

########Fate/ Zero Masters
  • Kiritsugu Emiya (Artoria, Saber)
  • Kirei Kotomine (Hassan of the Hundred Faces, Assassin)
  • Tokiomi Tohsaka (Gilgamesh, Archer)
  • Waver Velvet (Iskandar, Rider)
  • Kariya Matou (Lancelot, Berserker)
  • Ryuunosuke Uryuu (Gilles de Rais, Caster)
  • Kayneth El-Melloi Archibald (Diarmund, Lancer)

########Fate/ Apocrypha Masters
  • #########Black Faction
    • Darnic Prestone Yggdmillennia (Vlad III, Lancer)
    • Gordes Musik Yggdmillennia (Siegfried, Saber)
    • Fiore Forvedge Yggdmillennia (Chiron, Archer)
    • Celenike Icecolle Yggdmillennia (Astolfo, Rider)
    • Roche Frain Yggdmillennia (Avicebron, Caster)
    • Caules Forvedge Yggdmillennia (Frankenstein, Berserker)
    • Reika Rikudou (Jack the Ripper, Assassin)
  • ########## Red Faction
    • Kairi Sisigou (Mordred, Saber)
    • Rottweil Berzinsky‎ (Atalanta, Archer)
    • Feend vor Sembren ‎(Karna, Lancer)
    • Cabik Pentel‎‎ (Achilles, Rider)
    • Jean Rum‎ (Shakespeare, Caster)
    • Shirou Kotomine (Semiramis, Assassin)
    • Deimlet Pentel‎‎ (Spartacus, Berserker)

##############Fate/ Ex-
  • Hakuno Kishinami, Male and Female (Nero, Saber; Nameless [EMIYA], Archer; Tamamo-no-Mae, Caster)
  • Rin Tohsaka -extra (Cu Chulainn [EXTRA], Lancer)
  • Rani VIII (Lu Bu, Berserker)
  • Shinji Matou (Francis Drake, Rider)
  • Leonard B. Harway (Gawain, Saber)
  • Dan Blackmore (Robin Hood, Archer)
  • Alice (Alice, Caster)
  • Julius B. Harway (Li Shuwen, Assassin)
  • Run Ru (Vlad III [Extra], Lancer)
  • Monji Gatou (Arcueid Brunestud [Tsukihime], Berserker)
  • Twice H. Pieceman (Buddha, Saver/Savior)

##############Fate/ Grand Order
  • Ritsuka Fujimaru, Male and Female (Mash Kyrielight, Shielder)

##############Fate/ Prototype
  • Ayaka Sajyou: The Seventh, Princes (Arthur (Proto), Saber)
  • The Sixth, Powers (Servant Unknown)
  • Anonymous Master: The Fifth, Virtues (Gilgamesh (Proto), Archer)
  • The Forth, Dominons (Servant Unknown)
  • Aro Isemi: The Third, Thrones (Perseus, Rider)
  • Misaya Reiroukan: The Second, Cherubim (Cú Chulainn (Proto), Lancer)
  • Sancraid Phahn: VOID, Absences (Heracles (Proto), Berserker)
  • Manaka Sajyou: The First, Seraphim (Beast VI, Beast)

##############Fate/Prototype: Fragments
No Masters Implemented
Note: I happened to implement 4 of the 7 servants serendipitously.
##############Fate/ strange fake
No Masters Implemented
##############Fate/ requiem
No Masters Implemented
 

Kerchu

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So let me see if I understood what you are trying to do:
Are you doing the mod (thrones) that in turn within this mod will be different game modes (currently two)? Holy ****, that's ****ing ambitious !!! And I like!!! Now my hype has exceeded 20000 mana points!
Leaving aside the shared enthusiasm of all the outstanding players to this project, I would like to thank your willingness to your, we could say, "fans" (lol) as we are pending doubts that arise in the forum, and in turn the speed with which You answer them, that speaks of the predisposition that you have to complete this ambitious project that began a year ago (and is still in development, therefore it is almost predictable that with that predisposition the project will end up in a certain part).
Good luck with this project !!

PS: Thanks for the welcome!
 

SupaNinjaMan

Baron
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
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I overhauled the Battle Continuation skill to make it much more appealing than the previous iteration.

The way it used to work was when an Servant got killed they would immediately spawn a duplicate agent in their location and that was that. Unfortunately there was no real drama to it, and it still would result in a loss since the replacement would take a second or two to get started and in that time they'd get chopped down. Plus, since the agent died, the Servant's troop would be removed from their party.

The way it works in its current iteration, if a Servant with Battle Continuation takes a hit that will kill them, I have them feign death, then after a brief period of time, they get back up and return to battle.

I've tried to balance it by having any extra damage from killing them rolling over and getting subtracted from their total health pool. So say Cú Chulainn has 100 health, and you land an attack that would do 150 damage, instead of just doing enough to put him down, the extra 50 is subtracted from his total pool leaving him with only 50 health for his next spawn. So extremely strong attacks can instantly kill a servant with BC, bypassing their respawn(s) entirely.

UPDATE: 6/30

After two days (TWO! DAYS!!!) I finally got a function working so that I can orient any position such that it faces another. It seems easy, and not really something I NEED for an anime mod, but 1) this engine is way worse at math than me and 2) I do need it for the animes.

Specifically our boy Gil and his Gate of Babylon.


This is just a rough prototype so I could determine if I could get the lookat function working at randomized positions.
But there it is. The Holy Grail of the Holy Grail War. The ultimate weapon. I am more than a little proud.

Right now whenever the player hold 'N' it takes where ever they are looking, spawns a missile somewhere above and behind them in a huge square and fires it at that position. Of course, this is going to be. . . . difficult to balance.
 
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Superetty

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Wow! You did a splendid job with the Gates of Babylon! Those lights look awsome! Will they give a shining effect (like warband sun) during night?
 

SupaNinjaMan

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M&BWBWF&SNWVC
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@Spaghetty: Thank you! I hadn't thought of that! That's a great idea. In fact, I've actually not seen it at night until you made this comment and it got me curious. It's pleasant. Definitely not the vibe you get from someone like Cu charging up something like Gae Bolg, but perfect for someone like Artoria.

@Garedyr: Thanks, this is going to be a huge let down, but those are stock Native. Classic pistol_smoke bursts at 10 strength.

Python:
("pistol_smoke", psf_billboard_3d, "prtcl_dust_a",
     90, 2.5, 0.6, -0.2, 60.0, 1.5,     #num_particles, life, damping, gravity_strength, turbulance_size, turbulance_strength
     (0.0, 0.75), (1, 0),       #alpha keys
     (0.0, 0.7), (1, 0.4),      #red keys
     (0.0, 0.7),(1, 0.4),       #green keys
     (0.0, 0.7), (1, 0.4),      #blue keys
     (0, 1.5),   (0.5, 11.0),   #scale keys
     (0.1, 0.1, 0.1),           #emit box size
     (2, 2, 0),                 #emit velocity
     0.1                        #emit dir randomness
    ),
 
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SupaNinjaMan

Baron
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
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7
Wanted to see how I might make the AI use the Gates of Babylon.

AUDIO WARNING: I had my mic on, but I had everything else muted and didn't do any commentary so to fix the background hiss I just threw on one of those youtube audio tracks.
Maybe watch this one muted.
Of course, I'm testing it as the boy Cu so I don't get eviscerated in a single hit. I have him targeting all body parts at random, I will limit it to certain areas like the chest and head so that enemies can block them with some reliability. It's also helping me fine tune my targeting system for combat spells and the like.

Also I set the scene to night to see this the charge effects a little better. Looking more into lights in WB, it is a little different from what I expected, but I think I can get it down. It will just take a little bit of testing. Also it's neat to accidentally test the Battle Continuation as the player.
 
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