SP Medieval [WB] Crusader-way to expiation

Currently viewing this thread:

Status
Not open for further replies.
The Lion Heart said:
Rather than offend anyone else any further (intentionally or unintentionally) how about we come to a sort of "compromise" on the issue at hand. The people who do not like the setting or the story of the mod could ask permission (once the mod is done) to use their models, textures, maps etc and just change the date/ story and change some of the important figures and factions. Keep in mind however, giving most (if not all) credit to the original team of modders.

Are you ignorant of what the 4th Crusade and its consequences were??! They,most likely,can not use these models or their map because the key area in the 4th Crusade is Greece and it was after the takeover of Constantinople...here is a quote and a map of Greece afterwards.

How, indeed, will the church of the Greeks, no matter how severely she is beset with afflictions and persecutions, return into ecclesiastical union and to a devotion for the Apostolic See, when she has seen in the Latins only an example of perdition and the works of darkness, so that she now, and with reason, detests the Latins more than dogs? As for those who were supposed to be seeking the ends of Jesus Christ, not their own ends, who made their swords, which they were supposed to use against the pagans, drip with Christian blood,­ they have spared neither religion, nor age, nor sex. They have committed incest, adultery, and fornication before the eyes of men. They have exposed both matrons and virgins, even those dedicated to God, to the sordid lusts of boys. Not satisfied with breaking open the imperial treasury and plundering the goods of princes and lesser men, they also laid their hands on the treasures of the churches and, what is more serious, on their very possessions. They have even ripped silver plates from the altars and have hacked them to pieces among themselves. They violated the holy places and have carried off crosses and relics."[20]

LatinEmpire2.png


The Latin Empire was soon faced with a great number of enemies, which the crusaders had not taken into account. Besides the individual Byzantine Greek states in Epirus and Nicaea, the Empire received great pressure from the Seljuk Sultanate and the Bulgarian Empire. The Greek states were fighting for supremacy against both Latins and each other. Almost every Greek and Latin protagonist of the event was killed shortly after. Murtzuphlus' betrayal by Alexius III led to his capture by the Latins and his execution at Constantinople. Not long after, Alexius III was himself captured by Boniface and sent to exile in Southern Italy. One year after the conquest of the city, Emperor Baldwin was decisively defeated at the Battle of Adrianople on 14 April 1205 by the Bulgarians, and was captured and later executed by the Bulgarian Emperor Kaloyan. Two years after that, on 4 September 1207, Boniface himself was killed in an ambush by the Bulgarians, and his head was sent to Kaloyan. He was succeeded by his infant son Demetrius of Montferrat, who ruled until he reached adulthood, but was eventually defeated by Theodore I Ducas, the despot of Epirus and a relative of Murtzuphlus, and thus the Kingdom of Thessalonica was restored to Byzantine rule in 1224.

Wiki,but nevertheless,accurate.


 
(Sorry for the double post but text seems to be bugged)
So, in conclusion of the fact that this is after the Fourth Crusade and a majority of the rival factions are Greek,thus why in the world would the developers use crusaders in the Latin Empire or use the Middle Eastern map? Right now, they would most likely be concentrated on making Bulgarian, various Greek, and basic European trees. I don't know why they choose 1206 as a setting but the Latin Empire will be nerfed even at its birth because it is a puppet of Venice basically.
 

Aetheus

Sergeant at Arms
Gothic Knight said:
The Lion Heart said:
Rather than offend anyone else any further (intentionally or unintentionally) how about we come to a sort of "compromise" on the issue at hand. The people who do not like the setting or the story of the mod could ask permission (once the mod is done) to use their models, textures, maps etc and just change the date/ story and change some of the important figures and factions. Keep in mind however, giving most (if not all) credit to the original team of modders.

Are you ignorant of what the 4th Crusade and its consequences were??! They,most likely,can not use these models or their map because the key area in the 4th Crusade is Greece and it was after the takeover of Constantinople...here is a quote and a map of Greece afterwards.

They can use anything they damn well please. Its their mod, its their show. If you wanna be pushy about it, why don't you follow Lion Heart's advice and go make your own mod?
 
Aetheus said:
Gothic Knight said:
The Lion Heart said:
Rather than offend anyone else any further (intentionally or unintentionally) how about we come to a sort of "compromise" on the issue at hand. The people who do not like the setting or the story of the mod could ask permission (once the mod is done) to use their models, textures, maps etc and just change the date/ story and change some of the important figures and factions. Keep in mind however, giving most (if not all) credit to the original team of modders.

Are you ignorant of what the 4th Crusade and its consequences were??! They,most likely,can not use these models or their map because the key area in the 4th Crusade is Greece and it was after the takeover of Constantinople...here is a quote and a map of Greece afterwards.

They can use anything they damn well please. Its their mod, its their show. If you wanna be pushy about it, why don't you follow Lion Heart's advice and go make your own mod?

Because I'm not the one making a historical mod about the events after the 4th Crusade,so please,cut that nerdrage off. On which map can you find the city of Damascus in Greece, if you can't,shut up.I find it quite vexing,and irritating to say the least, that some random user would post such crap after I have tried to give some advice and info. Don't post anything if you are not helping anyone or making sense.
 
Gothic Knight said:
(Sorry for the double post but text seems to be bugged)
So, in conclusion of the fact that this is after the Fourth Crusade and a majority of the rival factions are Greek,thus why in the world would the developers use crusaders in the Latin Empire or use the Middle Eastern map? Right now, they would most likely be concentrated on making Bulgarian, various Greek, and basic European trees. I don't know why they choose 1206 as a setting but the Latin Empire will be nerfed even at its birth because it is a puppet of Venice basically.

Well Kingdom of Heaven(Jerusalem) was still there. Crusaders still had their every day conflicts with the muslims.
 
NICK.ALTMAN said:
Gothic Knight said:
(Sorry for the double post but text seems to be bugged)
So, in conclusion of the fact that this is after the Fourth Crusade and a majority of the rival factions are Greek,thus why in the world would the developers use crusaders in the Latin Empire or use the Middle Eastern map? Right now, they would most likely be concentrated on making Bulgarian, various Greek, and basic European trees. I don't know why they choose 1206 as a setting but the Latin Empire will be nerfed even at its birth because it is a puppet of Venice basically.

Well Kingdom of Heaven(Jerusalem) was still there. Crusaders still had their every day conflicts with the muslims.

By 1206 A.D, the situation in the Middle East was hopeless, hell, it was hopeless by the Second/Third Crusades when the Muslims started consolidating their strength. Plus,they specifically said something about the 4th Crusade, so I would expect the setting to be in Greece. We honestly need to hear from the mod makers about what they plan to do, speculation is useless.
 

Aetheus

Sergeant at Arms
Gothic Knight said:
Aetheus said:
Gothic Knight said:
The Lion Heart said:
Rather than offend anyone else any further (intentionally or unintentionally) how about we come to a sort of "compromise" on the issue at hand. The people who do not like the setting or the story of the mod could ask permission (once the mod is done) to use their models, textures, maps etc and just change the date/ story and change some of the important figures and factions. Keep in mind however, giving most (if not all) credit to the original team of modders.

Are you ignorant of what the 4th Crusade and its consequences were??! They,most likely,can not use these models or their map because the key area in the 4th Crusade is Greece and it was after the takeover of Constantinople...here is a quote and a map of Greece afterwards.

They can use anything they damn well please. Its their mod, its their show. If you wanna be pushy about it, why don't you follow Lion Heart's advice and go make your own mod?

Because I'm not the one making a historical mod about the events after the 4th Crusade,so please,cut that nerdrage off. On which map can you find the city of Damascus in Greece, if you can't,shut up.

Funny, accusing me of "nerdrage" when here you are, incensed, and expounding on your demands at the top of your (virtual) lungs. Fact is, you (and the rest of us) have no right in making demands. Its not as though the modders are paid to do this - they do this because they want to, and be glad that they even bother to offer it to the public. I suggest you keep your geek rage to yourself in future, and stop arguing when the modders have already clearly indicated that they want to do things their way.
 

Leggeron

Knight
WF&SNW
Why dont we just sit back and see what happens.
As we all know, we do not have any finished crusader mods as of yet, and I personally dont put any stock in the other "under development" mods, since they are likely to never get finished or to end up as mediocre ones.  Im personally keeping my fingers crossed for this even with its dubious historical nature and flamboyant colours.  Why?  Well, because it seems like the best offering at the moment.
 
What demands have I made.....those things are called suggestions since they are making a mod based on what, the period after the 4th Crusade.
Quote-Some new information:The mod's starting date will be 1206 AD, after the 4th Crusade. Every faction will have two regular troop trees and one elite, which will represent the Orders. Elite units will be hireable only in the castles.
What exactly am I demanding?I'm trying to provide them with information so they can do their mod and my advice is common sense lol,especially if their mod is trying to achieve historical accuracy. That means they are gonna need help from anybody that knows about that period(Me,Anthon,etc). Sure, I could do my own mod but this has sparked my interest, while you were mesmerized by pictures of knights, I was instilled with interest because of what I know about the chaos that happened after the 4th Crusade. So,it is natural that I want to post info to help them out since this has a great possibility of becoming an intricate and detailed representation of that period. What have you done...nothing,other then annoy me with your useless posts.
 

Aetheus

Sergeant at Arms
Gothic Knight said:
What demands have I made.....those things are called suggestions since they are making a mod based on what, the period after the 4th Crusade.
Quote-Some new information:The mod's starting date will be 1206 AD, after the 4th Crusade. Every faction will have two regular troop trees and one elite, which will represent the Orders. Elite units will be hireable only in the castles.
What exactly am I demanding?I'm trying to provide them with information so they can do their mod and my advice is common sense lol,especially if their mod is trying to achieve historical accuracy. That means they are gonna need help from anybody that knows about that period(Me,Anthon,etc). Sure, I could do my own mod but this has sparked my interest, while you were mesmerized by pictures of knights, I was instilled with interest because of what I know about the chaos that happened after the 4th Crusade. So,it is natural that I want to post info to help them out since this has a great possibility of becoming an intricate and detailed representation of that period. What have you done...nothing,other then annoy me with your useless posts.

Sorry, but the way you phrase your sentences ("The modders can't use this" ... "The modders must use that" ...), seemed a lot like demands to me. The modders themselves have said that they have their own 'references' to follow. And no matter how much you might distrust these references, the modders have already decided on following them. Continuously expounding the virtues of a "historically correct" mod isn't gonna get you brownie points, and nor is it likely to change their minds. And you speak as though annoying you is a grievous crime. =/
 
Aetheus said:
Gothic Knight said:
What demands have I made.....those things are called suggestions since they are making a mod based on what, the period after the 4th Crusade.
Quote-Some new information:The mod's starting date will be 1206 AD, after the 4th Crusade. Every faction will have two regular troop trees and one elite, which will represent the Orders. Elite units will be hireable only in the castles.
What exactly am I demanding?I'm trying to provide them with information so they can do their mod and my advice is common sense lol,especially if their mod is trying to achieve historical accuracy. That means they are gonna need help from anybody that knows about that period(Me,Anthon,etc). Sure, I could do my own mod but this has sparked my interest, while you were mesmerized by pictures of knights, I was instilled with interest because of what I know about the chaos that happened after the 4th Crusade. So,it is natural that I want to post info to help them out since this has a great possibility of becoming an intricate and detailed representation of that period. What have you done...nothing,other then annoy me with your useless posts.

Sorry, but the way you phrase your sentences ("The modders can't use this" ... "The modders must use that" ...), seemed a lot like demands to me. The modders themselves have said that they have their own 'references' to follow. And no matter how much you might distrust these references, the modders have already decided on following them. Continuously expounding the virtues of a "historically correct" mod isn't gonna get you brownie points, and nor is it likely to change their minds. And you speak as though annoying you is a grievous crime. =/

They,most likely,can not use these models or their map
Likely implies a chance.Doesn't seem like a demand to this,more like a guess. Reading comprehension,use it. Lastly, they have not given any references whatsoever, and as the poster above said, it is rather dubious. I can't disturst something I'am ignorant of and that was a quote from their developer. Apparently it will give me cookie/brownie/ cupcake whatever points because it supports my point. Read the previous posts and try to refute me again.
 

Aetheus

Sergeant at Arms
Gothic Knight said:
Aetheus said:
Gothic Knight said:
What demands have I made.....those things are called suggestions since they are making a mod based on what, the period after the 4th Crusade.
Quote-Some new information:The mod's starting date will be 1206 AD, after the 4th Crusade. Every faction will have two regular troop trees and one elite, which will represent the Orders. Elite units will be hireable only in the castles.
What exactly am I demanding?I'm trying to provide them with information so they can do their mod and my advice is common sense lol,especially if their mod is trying to achieve historical accuracy. That means they are gonna need help from anybody that knows about that period(Me,Anthon,etc). Sure, I could do my own mod but this has sparked my interest, while you were mesmerized by pictures of knights, I was instilled with interest because of what I know about the chaos that happened after the 4th Crusade. So,it is natural that I want to post info to help them out since this has a great possibility of becoming an intricate and detailed representation of that period. What have you done...nothing,other then annoy me with your useless posts.

Sorry, but the way you phrase your sentences ("The modders can't use this" ... "The modders must use that" ...), seemed a lot like demands to me. The modders themselves have said that they have their own 'references' to follow. And no matter how much you might distrust these references, the modders have already decided on following them. Continuously expounding the virtues of a "historically correct" mod isn't gonna get you brownie points, and nor is it likely to change their minds. And you speak as though annoying you is a grievous crime. =/

They,most likely,can not use these models or their map
Likely implies a chance.Doesn't seem like a demand to this,more like a guess. Reading comprehension,use it. Lastly, they have not given any references whatsoever, and as the poster above said, it is rather dubious. I can't disturst something I'am ignorant of and that was a quote from their developer. Apparently it will give me cookie/brownie/ cupcake whatever points because it supports my point. Read the previous posts and try to refute me again.

This:
Max_marksman said:
But still: why? Heck, will the mod even be set in the Holy Land?
Why? Because it's interesting time period. I will not comment such stupid questions anymore, don't even bother to write them.
We have two excellent, well-educated historians, and we don't need opinions, which is formed by stereotypes and Hollywood movies. We don't want to make another one mod about 3rd Crusade. And it's your problems, if you know history only from the movies.
If you have some useful information - you are welcomed, but we don't need flooders.

Between trusting those "excellent, well-educated historians" and you ... well ... I dunno. I really haven't got much of an interest in history,  but I could always go to the local library and hit the books.
 
Do you know who those excellent historians are, if not, don't post a repudiation of me without know what I have done. I have assisted mods with info on TWC and those historians could very well be the people I suggested to help, Anthonius II and BG, heck, Anthonius has already provided references for them(Read the replies ,it is there), so, essentially, what are we arguing about. I'm merely helping out by providing facts. Again, an attack without having any merits of your own to back it up. I suggest you read some books about the Byzantines and the Fourth Crusade, it is interesting. I know my limits on information,but I also know about the political situation in that area and the other two guys I mentioned might be the historians(Antonius II is the premier on the Nikephorus-Paleologus military while BG knows Bulgarians pretty well.)
 
Hmmm, I might have to phrase my Idea better. What I was proposing was that the people who mod the mod (or if they do at all) should edit the mod and if they want to make it the third crusade then they could completely delete greece, Constantinople, and the Venetians. Really, the models for the English are there in native, since the original mod team would have already made most of the order's armor you could use that.
 

Lord Leoric of Wercheg

Grandmaster Knight
Err, I haven't been watching you guys but all I want to say is it's your mod. Mod what you like, historically accurate or not(unless you really want to be hist. accurate but remember hist. accuracy<gameplay)
 
I noticed that some letters were in greek/russian (I think some of the belts too). Will that be changed at some point? I don't think the orthodox people really joined the crusades.

Nice work though.
 

byfalkon

Recruit
ı want to learn that is this mod "Crusader-way to expiation " released? it is hard to understand in this page.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom