Wasted Spear Length/ holding spears wrong

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Nimai

Recruit
Dude I can understand if the spear would be like half it´s length. But this one is pretty fking long, just try to wield one of this size with the tip at the very end.
 

Ackdam

Regular
Wow...a lot of responses overnight. I just want to say that my points were for the most common situation in Bannerlord where we find ourselves in close combat with a spear. Yes, Icaurs, a spear can be used with the forearm support method, but that is again largely for formation tactics. Alone, a spearman would not use this method as it limits the method of attack to a single forward thrust. Holding at the point of balance, the wielder can change the angle of attack in order to capitalize on openings. I was not saying that it isn't possible to thrust from the position you described, just that it was unlikely to be used as such in the situations we find ourselves in when playing the game. Perhaps if we acquire the ability to make proper spear formations they will allow us to change the grip as well. 1 v 1 though, holding at the end would not be advisable. Don't just look at modern videos on the topic, look at the illustrated manuscripts of the time.

My point about pikes was that they were made to be held at maximum distance, but were only used in specific situations using specific methods and would not be used 1 v 1. It simply wouldn't be practical to do so.

Ultimately though, once a battle became 1 v 1, the spearman would go with whatever came naturally to him. How long he lived after that would depend on his personal skill with the method he used, and his opponent's skill with their own weapon. Personally, I think I'd rather have a 2-handed grip with a longer spear and a strap-on buckler if I needed to use a spear in close combat. You'd get reach and control with a little bit of defense. They do need to give more options with the spears though. Personally, I want the option of a downward thrust for use against siege attackers climbing ladders and those trying to break through the inner front gate
 

Icaurs

Regular
M&BWB
Wow...a lot of responses overnight. I just want to say that my points were for the most common situation in Bannerlord where we find ourselves in close combat with a spear. Yes, Icaurs, a spear can be used with the forearm support method, but that is again largely for formation tactics. Alone, a spearman would not use this method as it limits the method of attack to a single forward thrust. Holding at the point of balance, the wielder can change the angle of attack in order to capitalize on openings. I was not saying that it isn't possible to thrust from the position you described, just that it was unlikely to be used as such in the situations we find ourselves in when playing the game. Perhaps if we acquire the ability to make proper spear formations they will allow us to change the grip as well. 1 v 1 though, holding at the end would not be advisable. Don't just look at modern videos on the topic, look at the illustrated manuscripts of the time.

My point about pikes was that they were made to be held at maximum distance, but were only used in specific situations using specific methods and would not be used 1 v 1. It simply wouldn't be practical to do so.

Ultimately though, once a battle became 1 v 1, the spearman would go with whatever came naturally to him. How long he lived after that would depend on his personal skill with the method he used, and his opponent's skill with their own weapon. Personally, I think I'd rather have a 2-handed grip with a longer spear and a strap-on buckler if I needed to use a spear in close combat. You'd get reach and control with a little bit of defense. They do need to give more options with the spears though. Personally, I want the option of a downward thrust for use against siege attackers climbing ladders and those trying to break through the inner front gate

as i said earlier, if youre using a spear to 1v1 in bannerlord, chances are you are dead already. spears and shied is likely the worst combo for 1v1. twohanded spear can be very good as long as your opponent doesnt have a shield. give them a shield though and even twohanded spear will suffer (it can still be effective though)

i would say in bannerlord the most common use of a spear is in support or vs cav, where holding it towards the end is better for that situation. you shouldnt be using it 1v1 anyway (being able to shorten up on the spear would be perfect)

Ah i see your point about pikes now yes. a pike irl would always be held as close to the end as possible spears however can have some variation in grip position. however in reference to bannerlord and its mechanics (where spear thrusts are the only attack possible, and they are extremely slow) holding the spear towards the end makes more sense. and considering how bad their handling is also despite leaving alot of backspear with a more central grip it seems like the spear has all the negative traits of being held at the back while also actually being held closer to the middle meaning we have those negative traits too. we have the worst of both grip types and no advantages that either of those grips give.

At the current position of grip, i would expect spears to be alot quicker and have alot more handling than they currently do. its as if the stats are tailored to the weapon being held as i described but actually being held shorter. (damage is also low as if you held it at the back with less powerful thrusts) this is a problem
 

Ackdam

Regular
I would expect them to be better as well, as would many people. There is a post in the SP Top Feedback & Suggestions pinned thread that has more detail on that matter. I think one of the main issues why you got flack here was due to the example picture being a dismounted unit that appears to be in close melee combat rather than a spear-wall type of situation. There was also nothing illuding to the idea that you were considering a spear vs. a mount, or a mounted character.

I just went back and took another look at the second video you posted HERE. I realized shortly in that he was stating most of my thoughts save the reason for holding the spear at the balance point. But then he said exactly what I was thinking, that his method of holding the spear at the end was only good for fights as a group, not a duel. When fighting as a duel, the mid grip allows a secondary angle of attack, the overhead thrust, which he demonstrates, but doesn't go into any detail on. All of his tactics are based upon group formations and working together with those around you.

Ultimately, I'm thinking that TaleWorlds went with a mid grip to give an extra angle of attack so that it was possible to duel with spears for tournaments. It may have been one of those moments where someone thought their idea was great and had to be implemented, so they forced the issue. To me, I'm currently of the opinion that we should be able to change the handling of the spear to adapt to the situation as it evolves. A long thrust grip for initial contact, then switch to a more stable and quicker mid-range grip once the line breaks and the soldiers are no longer looking out for each other so much as trying to stay alive. Honestly, I'd probably drop my shield at this point and go two-handed with one near the end and the other toward the balance point, sliding with the front hand to alter reach and angle as needed.

For a final note: I admit I initially thought you were a fool for even posting such a ridiculous theory, but I was not taking into account the usual line formation aspect of the weapon (likely due to so many frustrating spear/shield duels in tourneys). I still believe there is a great need for a mid grip due to the extra angle of attack it allows, but the rear grip should be an option as well for formations or when distancing is a must.

Here are a few suggestions I would make to improve spears and make them a more viable option (I will likely read through the spear thread I mentioned above and post them there if they aren't there already):
  • For sieges, prior to the enemy setting solid foot on the walls, I would love to have split spear divisions at breaching points that would use a rear grip to drain the liquid from the attackers as the door to the siege towers drop.
  • Also for sieges prior to breaching, thrusting downward at the attackers as they attempt to climb the ladders. This would be suicide if done without a shield, but whatever. I can hire more fodder later.
  • I would also love to be able to poke a spear through near ground-level arrow slits to see how the archers inside like being poked with pointy sticks.
  • Similar to the above, thrusting spears through partially broken gates (also shooting arrows through the cracks).
  • There are gaping holes above the inner gates which are currently only minorly useful. Grab some pikes and define death from above. They honestly need to utilize those more. They just kind of sit there at the moment, waiting for some new player (or someone binge playing for 24 hrs or so...) to not pay attention and fall into the meat grinder below during a siege (No, this has not happened to me, but I could envision it happening... the next time I binge play...).
  • Depending on the type of spear, they could also have some use in a swiping motion. A long-bladed spear could cut similar to a halberd, though only on exposed areas. They wouldn't have the strength necessary to cleave into armor.
  • I would also like to see the possibility of spears/halberds breaking in battle. Heck, all weapons should have a chance to break, leaving the unit forced to use their secondary weapon, which would also have a chance to break, leaving them with the option of running to pick up a fallen weapon or fleeing the battle. Perhaps only managing to pick up a shield and resort to bashing opponents. Wow... I could really run with that thought (This happens in almost every thread where I start to go on tangents...)
There are numerous scenarios where both methods of holding a spear would be very useful and neither are being used to their full extent. I look forward to the results of the above-linked spear strength suggestion thread. I also advise Icaurs to link this thread there. If nothing else, it will give the devs and others a deeper look into how spears could/should be utilized to have their full devastating effect via the videos and descriptions linked here. Who knows, maybe they'll even incorporate pikes, or at least braced long spears against cavalry charges... (Hint, hint TaleWorlds)
 

Icaurs

Regular
M&BWB
I would expect them to be better as well, as would many people. There is a post in the SP Top Feedback & Suggestions pinned thread that has more detail on that matter. I think one of the main issues why you got flack here was due to the example picture being a dismounted unit that appears to be in close melee combat rather than a spear-wall type of situation. There was also nothing illuding to the idea that you were considering a spear vs. a mount, or a mounted character.

I just went back and took another look at the second video you posted HERE. I realized shortly in that he was stating most of my thoughts save the reason for holding the spear at the balance point. But then he said exactly what I was thinking, that his method of holding the spear at the end was only good for fights as a group, not a duel. When fighting as a duel, the mid grip allows a secondary angle of attack, the overhead thrust, which he demonstrates, but doesn't go into any detail on. All of his tactics are based upon group formations and working together with those around you.

Ultimately, I'm thinking that TaleWorlds went with a mid grip to give an extra angle of attack so that it was possible to duel with spears for tournaments. It may have been one of those moments where someone thought their idea was great and had to be implemented, so they forced the issue. To me, I'm currently of the opinion that we should be able to change the handling of the spear to adapt to the situation as it evolves. A long thrust grip for initial contact, then switch to a more stable and quicker mid-range grip once the line breaks and the soldiers are no longer looking out for each other so much as trying to stay alive. Honestly, I'd probably drop my shield at this point and go two-handed with one near the end and the other toward the balance point, sliding with the front hand to alter reach and angle as needed.

For a final note: I admit I initially thought you were a fool for even posting such a ridiculous theory, but I was not taking into account the usual line formation aspect of the weapon (likely due to so many frustrating spear/shield duels in tourneys). I still believe there is a great need for a mid grip due to the extra angle of attack it allows, but the rear grip should be an option as well for formations or when distancing is a must.

Here are a few suggestions I would make to improve spears and make them a more viable option (I will likely read through the spear thread I mentioned above and post them there if they aren't there already):
  • For sieges, prior to the enemy setting solid foot on the walls, I would love to have split spear divisions at breaching points that would use a rear grip to drain the liquid from the attackers as the door to the siege towers drop.
  • Also for sieges prior to breaching, thrusting downward at the attackers as they attempt to climb the ladders. This would be suicide if done without a shield, but whatever. I can hire more fodder later.
  • I would also love to be able to poke a spear through near ground-level arrow slits to see how the archers inside like being poked with pointy sticks.
  • Similar to the above, thrusting spears through partially broken gates (also shooting arrows through the cracks).
  • There are gaping holes above the inner gates which are currently only minorly useful. Grab some pikes and define death from above. They honestly need to utilize those more. They just kind of sit there at the moment, waiting for some new player (or someone binge playing for 24 hrs or so...) to not pay attention and fall into the meat grinder below during a siege (No, this has not happened to me, but I could envision it happening... the next time I binge play...).
  • Depending on the type of spear, they could also have some use in a swiping motion. A long-bladed spear could cut similar to a halberd, though only on exposed areas. They wouldn't have the strength necessary to cleave into armor.
  • I would also like to see the possibility of spears/halberds breaking in battle. Heck, all weapons should have a chance to break, leaving the unit forced to use their secondary weapon, which would also have a chance to break, leaving them with the option of running to pick up a fallen weapon or fleeing the battle. Perhaps only managing to pick up a shield and resort to bashing opponents. Wow... I could really run with that thought (This happens in almost every thread where I start to go on tangents...)
There are numerous scenarios where both methods of holding a spear would be very useful and neither are being used to their full extent. I look forward to the results of the above-linked spear strength suggestion thread. I also advise Icaurs to link this thread there. If nothing else, it will give the devs and others a deeper look into how spears could/should be utilized to have their full devastating effect via the videos and descriptions linked here. Who knows, maybe they'll even incorporate pikes, or at least braced long spears against cavalry charges... (Hint, hint TaleWorlds)

I myself love using the spear even though it is nowhere near as strong as a spear should be, i have seen parts of the thread you linked back when it was first made, (one of my comments are on the first page, though i just offered some advice for fellow spear users in singleplayer) i have commented a few times on said thread, i shall take my ideas from this and post them their as well so that the devs have easier time of finding any spear related suggestions/improvement and see what they make of it.

the screenshot i used as an example wasnt supposed to be me showing any kind of combat, i was just showing where the grip was, there was infact and enemy infront of me that my teamates were engagin but i wasnt paying attention to him. i had already been interrupted by a random guy on the enemy team that i had to kill, (hence my low hp lol+ having arrows fired at me) my main issue is that spears are so useless 1v1 that holding the spear in the middle doesnt help at all, so it may as well be held closer to the back so that we get advantages in support/teamplay with it as well as better range on cav instead of just getting lanced while we are out of range.
 

Biyonik

Sergeant
I think you people are just overthinking stuff. Im a medieval enthusiast myself but its just for gameplay purposes , nothing more
 

Ackdam

Regular
I think you people are just overthinking stuff. Im a medieval enthusiast myself but its just for gameplay purposes , nothing more
We are overthinking a lot, but the main point is that the spears are near useless in anything other than mounted combat which should not be the case. Implementing proper spear usage could change both field battles and sieges immensely forcing a more tactical approach to both. Spears were a very large part of medieval warfare but their portrayal in Bannerlord is marginal at best.
 

Icaurs

Regular
M&BWB
but the main point is that the spears are near useless in anything other than mounted combat which should not be the case. Implementing proper spear usage could change both field battles and sieges immensely forcing a more tactical approach to both.

THIS.

Also to addon to what you said. spears werent only just a a very large part of medieval warfare, they were also a very large part of warfare all throughout history. They were used basically forever because they were just GOOD. whereas in bannerlord they are... well basically near useless(on foot)
 

Yangbang

Sergeant
WBWF&SVC
@Icaurs
So after everything we've discussed. I think I found our point of contention. Its in your thread title "holding spears wrong". Which after all out debate. Troops are not holding spears wrong, they are just limited to their full potential. And that should be addressed by the devs to make bannerlord a better combat game.
 

Ackdam

Regular
I was commenting within the context of the era Bannerlord most closely represents, but your point is valid. Technically spears are still being used in tribal warfare in remote areas of the world as well as tools for fishing, while other cultures use them as ceremonial items. They have also been used since the first time a Neanderthal picked up a pointed stick and shoved it into something living to see what would happen or as a desperate means to defend itself and its tribe (pack? troop? band?). After the stone (...looters /shudder), and club, it is probably the weapon with the longest usage in history. I will even add a bit back onto your addon in regards to this section:

... whereas in bannerlord they are... well basically near useless(on foot)

Which makes them useful only while mounted in field battles and tournaments, and if your goal is to rack up kills in field battles (to gain experience faster, of course... really... don't look at me like that! It's not like I enjoy outperforming the other nobles' entire parties on my own...) there are better options. Making the spear, as it is currently implemented, nearly pointless (Hah!). No offense to those who like using the spear. I acknowledge it's historic value without argument, though I prefer swords myself (If they were to ever *correctly* implement the katana and its variations I will probably scream like a little girl in joy).
 
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Ackdam

Regular
@Icaurs
So after everything we've discussed. I think I found our point of contention. Its in your thread title "holding spears wrong". Which after all out debate. Troops are not holding spears wrong, they are just limited to their full potential. And that should be addressed by the devs to make bannerlord a better combat game.

That would be this part of my novel in post #24:

For a final note: I admit I initially thought you were a fool for even posting such a ridiculous theory, but I was not taking into account the usual line formation aspect of the weapon (likely due to so many frustrating spear/shield duels in tourneys). I still believe there is a great need for a mid grip due to the extra angle of attack it allows, but the rear grip should be an option as well for formations or when distancing is a must.

(Yeah... my final note which was halfway through my post. I don't blame you if you didn't see that, I would have skipped my short stories as well. Or, more likely, only read the bullet points. Now that I look at it, even some of those are long as well.)

In the end, we all got to the same place once we were able to beat out of each other what we all meant and figure out what details we were missing that got us off to a wrong start. Now the suggestions have been stated and linked in the thread that the devs have pinned about issues regarding spears, so here's hoping for some good times with long, pointy sticks in the, hopefully, near future.

Also, thank you to all who contributed to this insanity and I hope that some, if not all of you, have gained some insight into the ability of spears and their methods of handling... or at least got some entertainment from reading our struggles in comprehending the thought process of the others.
 

Icaurs

Regular
M&BWB
Which makes them useful only while mounted in field battles and tournaments, and if your goal is to rack up kills in field battles (to gain experience faster, of course... really... don't look at me like that! It's not like I enjoy outperforming the other nobles' entire parties on my own...) there are better options. Making the spear, as it is currently implemented, nearly pointless (Hah!). No offense to those who like using the spear. I acknowledge it's historic value without argument, though I prefer swords myself (If they were to ever *correctly* implement the katana and its variations I will probably scream like a little girl in joy).

i myself love using the spear even though it just plain sucks at nearly everything. I only play on foot as well, i dont use a horse, so i go spear/ sword shield. i use a spear for as long as i can until i realise my army is dying as i am not helping, then i pull out my sword haha. Id love to be able to not have to take a sword into fights and rely purely on my spear but it just isnt viable at the moment. I might have a look at modding myself my own custom made spear, up the damage, speed, handling and adjust its hold position and turn into mighty Achilles.

I do also like swords but i feel every game has plenty of sword gameplay whereas spears are very rarely in or done well in games. i never use an axe or mace though. strictly sword and spear. and always a bow rather than a crossbow.

Im glad we all managed to ascertain exactly what we all meant. and yes i probably shouldnt have said "holding them wrong" as you can hold a spear like that, i just meant for the mechanics available to us in game and a spears current state in game it would make more sense if the spear was held further back which would explain the low damage, low speed and handling and the amount of glancing hits. (i do still think even with holding a spear this far back youll be able to do abit more damage than currently)

As a side note, id love more customisation options for spears in game when crafting them as well. And for those customisations to all actually do something. i think its the handle and the... thing before the spear head which you can customize and enlarge and shrink but doesnt actually change the weapon stats at all
 

Ackdam

Regular
i myself love using the spear ... and turn into mighty Achilles.

Not knocking your choices as I would use one as well, to an extent, if they made it function correctly. Also, watch out for arrows and wear thick boots for your mod.

I do also like swords but ... i never use an axe or mace ... a bow rather than a crossbow.

Swords are overused, but that's largely due to them being the main battle weapon for so long. With my note about having a katana the stress would be on them implementing it correctly. A katana has more finesse than a broadsword. It isn't meant to bash against armor hoping to cleave it apart or stab through plate mail (though this has been proven to be possible), it's a slashing weapon that is meant to be quick and take advantage of openings (I own a katana that has been proven capable of slicing six inches deep through the lip of a steel oil drum).

I don't use axes either but I do use maces, mainly for mass prisoner capture to make money or gradually convert to my cause. Always a bow over a crossbow. Crossbows just take too long to reload and battles aren't long enough as it is. Plus maneuverability with a bow is much better (I own a hand made replica English longbow made by a master bowyer who traveled to Europe and read ancient manuscripts in order to get them as authentic as she could right down to the oil combination used on the wood, and a replica Mongolian horse-riders bow made by a friend of hers who she trades with to sell each others' products. That one is resin though since one made with authentic materials starts in the multi-thousand dollar price range).

Im glad we all managed to ascertain exactly what we all meant...

And it only took us a couple pages of posts and multiple videos to do so! Joking, joking. Anyhow, they should definitely do more damage considering some of them are basically a sword on a stick. Thankfully there are other posts regarding this that have been acknowledged by the moderators at the very least.

As a side note, id love more customisation options ... and for those customisations to all actually do something.

Even though it's 1:34 Am and I have to work tomorrow, I felt compelled to check this in-game as my memory of smithing was different. We'll go itemized for this one. The parts do modify the outcome to a small degree individually. I will be using specific examples and the numbers for the stats will be with the slider at minimum and maximum. Note that the stats could change in unexpected ways depending on where you put the slider which I will try to point out. ie: cutting power may be the same on both extremes, but slightly higher 1/3 of the way from the minimum end.

Note: I am going from the default options and swapping them out as I go down the list, which is why the numbers may seem off. Additionally, my smithing skill is nothing to swoon over. It is illustrating that the stats can change a little, sometimes.

The Weapon Head - Jagged Spear head:
  • Weight: 1.5 - 1.6
  • Weapon Reach: 126 - 135
  • Thrust speed: 90 - 89
  • Thrust Pierce Damage: 30 - 29 - 30
  • Handling: 81 - 80
The Attachment - Singular Hook Wing:
  • Weight: 1.5
  • Weapon Reach: 133 - 135
  • Thrust Speed: 90
  • Thrust Pierce Damage: 30 - 29
  • Handling: 81
The Shaft - Mahogany Long Spear Shaft:
  • Weight: 1.7 - 2.1
  • Weapon Reach: 183 - 214
  • Thrust Speed: 92 - 89
  • Thrust Pierce Damage: 33 - 32 - 33
  • Handling: 57 - 53
The Pommel - It Doesn't Matter:
  • None of the pommels currently change any aspect of the polearm, not even the weight. The large Spearhead Pommel weighs the same as no pommel at all even though it takes one steel ingot to add to the weapon.
So there is some customization. The longest spear I could make (the longest polearm has a glave head) has these parts:
  • Fine Steel Hewing Spear Head - 84.4
  • Eastern Double Spear Wings - 14.3
  • Extra Long Mahogany Shaft - 290
  • Again the Pommel doesn't matter and currently just wastes material.
This results in a spear that has:
  • Weight: 2.2
  • Weapon Reach: 292 (this takes into account the position of the hand, not the total length of the spear)
  • Thrust Speed: 77
  • Thrust Pierce Damage: 33
  • Handling: 47
You could adjust the stats a bit by playing with the parts, but I only did this to see how long of a spear we could get.
 

Icaurs

Regular
M&BWB
Not knocking your choices as I would use one as well, to an extent, if they made it function correctly. Also, watch out for arrows and wear thick boots for your mod.



Swords are overused, but that's largely due to them being the main battle weapon for so long. With my note about having a katana the stress would be on them implementing it correctly. A katana has more finesse than a broadsword. It isn't meant to bash against armor hoping to cleave it apart or stab through plate mail (though this has been proven to be possible), it's a slashing weapon that is meant to be quick and take advantage of openings (I own a katana that has been proven capable of slicing six inches deep through the lip of a steel oil drum).

I don't use axes either but I do use maces, mainly for mass prisoner capture to make money or gradually convert to my cause. Always a bow over a crossbow. Crossbows just take too long to reload and battles aren't long enough as it is. Plus maneuverability with a bow is much better (I own a hand made replica English longbow made by a master bowyer who traveled to Europe and read ancient manuscripts in order to get them as authentic as she could right down to the oil combination used on the wood, and a replica Mongolian horse-riders bow made by a friend of hers who she trades with to sell each others' products. That one is resin though since one made with authentic materials starts in the multi-thousand dollar price range).



And it only took us a couple pages of posts and multiple videos to do so! Joking, joking. Anyhow, they should definitely do more damage considering some of them are basically a sword on a stick. Thankfully there are other posts regarding this that have been acknowledged by the moderators at the very least.



Even though it's 1:34 Am and I have to work tomorrow, I felt compelled to check this in-game as my memory of smithing was different. We'll go itemized for this one. The parts do modify the outcome to a small degree individually. I will be using specific examples and the numbers for the stats will be with the slider at minimum and maximum. Note that the stats could change in unexpected ways depending on where you put the slider which I will try to point out. ie: cutting power may be the same on both extremes, but slightly higher 1/3 of the way from the minimum end.

Note: I am going from the default options and swapping them out as I go down the list, which is why the numbers may seem off. Additionally, my smithing skill is nothing to swoon over. It is illustrating that the stats can change a little, sometimes.

The Weapon Head - Jagged Spear head:
  • Weight: 1.5 - 1.6
  • Weapon Reach: 126 - 135
  • Thrust speed: 90 - 89
  • Thrust Pierce Damage: 30 - 29 - 30
  • Handling: 81 - 80
The Attachment - Singular Hook Wing:
  • Weight: 1.5
  • Weapon Reach: 133 - 135
  • Thrust Speed: 90
  • Thrust Pierce Damage: 30 - 29
  • Handling: 81
The Shaft - Mahogany Long Spear Shaft:
  • Weight: 1.7 - 2.1
  • Weapon Reach: 183 - 214
  • Thrust Speed: 92 - 89
  • Thrust Pierce Damage: 33 - 32 - 33
  • Handling: 57 - 53
The Pommel - It Doesn't Matter:
  • None of the pommels currently change any aspect of the polearm, not even the weight. The large Spearhead Pommel weighs the same as no pommel at all even though it takes one steel ingot to add to the weapon.
So there is some customization. The longest spear I could make (the longest polearm has a glave head) has these parts:
  • Fine Steel Hewing Spear Head - 84.4
  • Eastern Double Spear Wings - 14.3
  • Extra Long Mahogany Shaft - 290
  • Again the Pommel doesn't matter and currently just wastes material.
This results in a spear that has:
  • Weight: 2.2
  • Weapon Reach: 292 (this takes into account the position of the hand, not the total length of the spear)
  • Thrust Speed: 77
  • Thrust Pierce Damage: 33
  • Handling: 47
You could adjust the stats a bit by playing with the parts, but I only did this to see how long of a spear we could get.

ah so it was just the pommel that did nothing. i remembereed incorrectly then. though i do also remember that the extra parts dont really boost damage a whole lot except for of course the spear head. il have to recheck as i havnt triede to customize a new spear since i made the worlds tiniest spear just so i could have semi-decent handling on it and less bumps. i feel like the lack of difference in stats is more down to spears in general just having low everything and are just a side-effect of this. it is quite shocking that even when crafting your own spear it is very hard to get more thrust damage than a basic tier 1 sword
 

Icaurs

Regular
M&BWB
i feel like you should play for honour. weapons in that game do work alot more realistically. ive spent countless hours on that game, mainly playing warden, black prior, and of course valkyrie for my spear (if you dont know the game then i guess you dont know what those are lol) There are characters who use katanas which you might enjoy playing as
 

h1zchan

Sergeant
Just letting everyone know here if you wish to do some sparring with spear and shield in real life to get a feel of it the gears are dirt cheap. The most expensive piece would be a proper sports fencing mask. Once you have that, go buy a 2m wooden pole from your local hardware store, and a coldsteel rubber training spearhead and a coldsteel soldier's targe which is in fact a centre gripped large buckler in the same configuration as iron age shields. Thats it you dont need gambison with the rubber spearhead fitted on your spears. If the cold steel targe is not available in your country just get a cheap riot shield from ebay. It's basically a rotella which the bolognese spear and shield treatise was written for.
 

Yangbang

Sergeant
WBWF&SVC
@Icaurs
Did you guys already discuss that there should be a "change grip" button for spears? Just as javelin have a throwing or a melee fighting grip. Spears should have a mid grip and and rear grip for the specific things we were all discussing.

It should just be a push of a button to have your character change from mod to rear. Should be synonymous with the AI as well, for especially in shield wall and square formations.

It would give spear play the much needed buff the game needs. Engaging with the rear grip, and in anytime during battle, sliding your spear reach from rear to mid.
 

Ackdam

Regular
@Icaurs
Did you guys already discuss that there should be a "change grip" button for spears? Just as javelin have a throwing or a melee fighting grip. Spears should have a mid grip and and rear grip for the specific things we were all discussing.

In passing in post #22:

Perhaps if we acquire the ability to make proper spear formations they will allow us to change the grip as well. 1 v 1 though, holding at the end would not be advisable. Don't just look at modern videos on the topic, look at the illustrated manuscripts of the time.

And again in post #24:

To me, I'm currently of the opinion that we should be able to change the handling of the spear to adapt to the situation as it evolves. A long thrust grip for initial contact, then switch to a more stable and quicker mid-range grip once the line breaks and the soldiers are no longer looking out for each other so much as trying to stay alive. Honestly, I'd probably drop my shield at this point and go two-handed with one near the end and the other toward the balance point, sliding with the front hand to alter reach and angle as needed.

But the more often it's mentioned, the higher the chance that it'll get seen and implemented. Popular opinion and all that.
 

Ackdam

Regular
Just letting everyone know here if you wish to do some sparring with spear and shield in real life to get a feel of it the gears are dirt cheap. The most expensive piece would be a proper sports fencing mask. Once you have that, go buy a 2m wooden pole from your local hardware store, and a coldsteel rubber training spearhead and a coldsteel soldier's targe which is in fact a centre gripped large buckler in the same configuration as iron age shields. Thats it you dont need gambison with the rubber spearhead fitted on your spears. If the cold steel targe is not available in your country just get a cheap riot shield from ebay. It's basically a rotella which the bolognese spear and shield treatise was written for.
I may actually look into this. I have been meaning to by some more training equipment. I may add this to mu Amazon list.
 

Icaurs

Regular
M&BWB
yea i think i said that being able to change grip position woul be perfect, @Yangbang . this would allow both schools of thought to use their preferred grip technique as the situation demands giving the spear the versatility it so desperately needs
 
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