Warband Native League Season 5 - Player and Team Rankings (POLL ADDED)

[Scar]

M please...

It will surely destroy the competitive scene if players share their thoughts on other players and discuss them. That's why football has nearly died out since Maradona and Pele got repeatedly called gods and League of Legends is going downhill ever since Thorin started making videos discussing the concept of greatness and skill in online video games.

What's with the references to games/sports the average person plays or cares about?

Well football and League of Legends are competitively played games, just like Warband. It doesn't matter how many just play it casually, it is enough when only 16 players here play it with a competitive concept in mind. Competition doesn't mean you have to play for large pricepools, it only means you play to see who is the best, there is a meaning to the outcome of the match.

It is funny you are basically trying to forcefully overlook about 700 players who do play Warband competitively. Casual players are most likely still in the majority, but that doesn't matter. So if you don't like people taking the context of this game a little further then I advice you simply not to read such threads. Telling people stop doing it is disrespectful though.

 

[Úlfheðinn]

It is funny you are basically trying to forcefully overlook about 700 players who do play Warband competitively. Casual players are most likely still in the majority, but that doesn't matter.

Citation need, honestly, I love to see a rundown of tournaments that shows that there are currently 700 players actively playing Warband at a competitive level, but it seems like an incredibly generous and dishonest claim.

So if you don't like people taking the context of this game a little further then I advice you simply not to read such threads. Telling people stop doing it is disrespectful though.

Playing the "opinion police" is not cool bro and I'd argue it is even more disrespectful than merely offering an opinion (unless this is supposed to be an echo chamber?).

Expressing my view that there are more productive things to do regarding Warband than "ranking" lists is hardly the same as saying "STOP MAKING ALL THESE THREADS!!!"

**** son, if it makes you happy keep making ranking lists, I'm not here to "advise" you about what is right or wrong.

 

[Watly]

This feels like an epic show-down where a higher level debater from the off-topic section tries to argue with the average native e-peener.



Let's look at the definition of competitive:

com·pet·i·tive  (kəm-pĕt′ĭ-tĭv)
adj.
1. Of, involving, or determined by competition: competitive games.
2. Liking competition or inclined to compete: a highly competitive teammate.
3. Biochemistry Relating to the inhibition of enzyme activity that results from the reversible combination of an enzyme with an alternate compound and prevents normal substrate binding.
American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fifth Edition. Copyright © 2011 by Houghton Mifflin Harcourt Publishing Company. Published by Houghton Mifflin Harcourt Publishing Company. All rights reserved.



Considering people are competing using the platform of Warband, this game can be considered a competitive game; Warband does not have to be played competitive, but there is a group of people who play this game in a competitive way.

Also, let's be frank: playing a video-game is not really productive either. What is the point in expressing that making ranking lists is not really productive?

 

[Úlfheðinn]

Also, let's be frank: playing a video-game is not really productive either. What is the point in expressing that making ranking lists is not really productive?

That's an excellent point, to clarify and avoid some issues with the words I chose to use, the point I was originally trying to make is that creating a ranking/rating list using a small population (and an even smaller sample population) suggests that said conclusions will probably be rather inaccurate and that said ranking is not particularly necessary (given that we aren't dealing with LoL, CS, football or some massive game where a ranking/rating of teams/players is needed to have any hope of understanding relative ability/levels).

Now of course, we can go with the "it's fun for the people making said lists and fosters discussion so accuracy or need (of having such lists) doesn't matter" because as you pointed out (and I think we can all agree) games are not about productive use of time (beyond players feeling like they had fun).

 

[Watly]

I understand that having a smaller sample population will result in a less accurate result, but I cannot agree with your statement that the population used to determine the ranking lists are too small. The great thing about ranking lists for top players is that you only need a handful of knowledgeable players to quite accurately determine a ranking for a group of people. The bias goes down and the accuracy goes up with more people rating, but the result is already somewhat accurate with five people.

This is true because of the small sample population actually; if less specimens need to be compared, the comparisons become easier to make. They might not be necessary due to the relative lack of size compared to those games you mentioned, it is still simply human nature to categorize and compare different persons with one another and that is why ranking lists can be such a blast to read/argue about.

EDIT: Basically, since my english sucks: smaller population to rank ----> easier to rank ----> less potential errors during ranking ----> more accurate result.

 

[Úlfheðinn]

EDIT: Basically, since my english sucks: smaller population to rank ----> easier to rank ----> less potential errors during ranking ----> more accurate result.

I'd say the issue with this basic idea, is that as the population playing a game decreases you have much smaller number of tournaments or players at each level that you can use to make said comparisons, which is why accuracy will go down.

Bigger population --> bigger possible sample population -> more valid and reliable results --> more accurate results

 

[Watly]

Agreed and that's why it is impossible to correctly rate "top-tier players" if you compare them to "lower-tier players". But usually when ranking lists are made based upon ratings from raters, the groups are limited to the top 1% for example. This is to prevent every top player getting 100 points, simply because the scale is too small to accurately represent individual differences. After that, every player within that group is compared to each other and a ranking list/rating list of the top 1% is made. What my point here is: as long as you determine a lower-bound and an upper-bound (a specific player as lower-bound and the best player as upper-bound), it becomes possible to accurately rate the players within those boundaries.

 

[Vissy]

3. Biochemistry Relating to the inhibition of enzyme activity that results from the reversible combination of an enzyme with an alternate compound and prevents normal substrate binding.

This is much more interesting than whatever we're discussing right now.

 

[Watly]

"I am not interested in the current discussion and other people should be aware of that."

Instead of complaining, just steer the discussion into a direction you are interested in.

 

[Scar]

It is funny you are basically trying to forcefully overlook about 700 players who do play Warband competitively. Casual players are most likely still in the majority, but that doesn't matter.

Citation need, honestly, I love to see a rundown of tournaments that shows that there are currently 700 players actively playing Warband at a competitive level, but it seems like an incredibly generous and dishonest claim.

What exactly is dishonest about saying that 700 players are playing matches that have a certain meaning to them and their teams? The terms for me to discribe that is 'competition', maybe you have a different one in Sweden.

So if you don't like people taking the context of this game a little further then I advice you simply not to read such threads. Telling people stop doing it is disrespectful though.

Playing the "opinion police" is not cool bro and I'd argue it is even more disrespectful than merely offering an opinion (unless this is supposed to be an echo chamber?).

Expressing my view that there are more productive things to do regarding Warband than "ranking" lists is hardly the same as saying "STOP MAKING ALL THESE THREADS!!!"

**** son, if it makes you happy keep making ranking lists, I'm not here to "advise" you about what is right or wrong.

What am I thinking trying to argue with some disconnected forum moderator (like the vast majority of moderators in this forum actually), that spends his time posting obviously very productive posts in the off topic section? So on this one I'll happily take your advice... son... and do something more productive.

 

[Vissy]

"I am not interested in the current discussion and other people should be aware of that."

Instead of complaining, just steer the discussion into a direction you are interested in.

I'll learn how to do that when you learn how to use quotations.

 

[Fietta]

"I am not interested in the current discussion and other people should be aware of that."

Instead of complaining, just steer the discussion into a direction you are interested in.

I'll learn how to do that when you learn how to use quotations.

Spoiler

 

[Watly]

Spoiler

 

[Dasvi2018]

Spoiler

Or alternatively

Spoiler

 

[Rayden]

So will you guys lower your points if you lose to kurwa 12-0?

Sure

not 12-0 but ye points down pls

 

[Gibby Jr]

So will you guys lower your points if you lose to kurwa 12-0?

Sure

not 12-0 but ye points down pls

As stated previously the points are dynamic and will be in accordance with results during the tournament - Wonwokie was on a good roll and as such the players got points for it, Wonwokie performed poorly this week and points will be deducted as such - the same applies to all teams and their results will have a large impact on their points.

 

[Vissy]

Spoiler

Spoiler

Or alternatively

Spoiler

Try again boys. 

 

[Úlfheðinn]

What exactly is dishonest about saying that 700 players are playing matches that have a certain meaning to them and their teams? The terms for me to discribe that is 'competition', maybe you have a different one in Sweden.

Maybe in Germany people can just make up statistics and still be considered honest?

Unless I'm misunderstanding you here and you really want to suggest that people playing casually on a server are engaged in competitive gaming. Which is defiantly something you can argue, but I'd say that's a needlessly broad if not silly way to talk about gaming (casual vs. competitive). But hey, if you want to use a specific definition of arguable application to the topic then be my guest.

For example, we could definitely claim that every game of soccer is competitive, but I'd say you've gone fishing if you want to suggest that we should be counting a game played between say some school children during recess as comparable to that at professional or even amateur level (playing in leagues/tournaments).

However, to forestall what I expect will be some post about how I suck, let's add "organized" to competitive in order to be clear.

Do you think that there are currently 700 players involved in "organized" competitive matches in Warband? Or really, realistically, how many players would you suggest active participate in a tournament in a given month?

What am I thinking trying to argue with some disconnected forum moderator (like the vast majority of moderators in this forum actually), that spends his time posting obviously very productive posts in the off topic section? So on this one I'll happily take your advice... son... and do something more productive.

So close, so close, just remember in the future that we moderators are too disconnected from our humanity to care if you go for personal attacks.

GG close, for the solid if disappointing effort.

 

[Shemaforash]

wnl has 31 teams atm, let's say average is 20 players per team. 620 players. This is excluding NA.

 

[Oliveran]

There's 248 players in WNL - counting if each team had only 8 players, here in reality most teams field roughly 12 players per match (note: 4 matches / month, roughly...), which would give us 372 players.

I guess you could add 150 from America, so say ~500-550 active competitive players.

Unless I'm misunderstanding you here and you really want to suggest that people playing casually on a server are engaged in competitive gaming. Which is defiantly something you can argue, but I'd say that's a needlessly broad if not silly way to talk about gaming (casual vs. competitive). But hey, if you want to use a specific definition of arguable application to the topic then be my guest.

Since it's not football (where playing in division 3 is being a professional), you could argue that since there's not enough people to have the monetary gain nor enough players to field enough people to have several divisions and keep the community alive, I'd say playing in a team where you have at least a scrim a week with 8-12 dedicated players is enough. People don't just play casually, I think basically every team in WNL5 plays at least one scrim a week. This is called being competitive in the sense of this community - there's tops and bottoms, but then according to you there'd be NO competitive players - because everyone is just playing casually on servers since they don't seem to get anything out of it anyway... Being a COMPETITING player is called being a COMPETITIVE player - competing = being competitive. Basic reasoning, especially considering the size of the community.

Do you think that there are currently 700 players involved in "organized" competitive matches in Warband? Or really, realistically, how many players would you suggest active participate in a tournament in a given month?

Which concludes what I stated before, that there's at least roughly 500 ACTIVELY participating players if we only count 12 players / team (the REALLY realistic sum would be like 15-16 players per team, but let's not get into that) - so Scar's number is closer to whatever number you'd have said, seeing as you want to laugh at a number like 700 (which is closer to reality than you know).



And could please both you, Ulfhedinn and Scar, stop behaving like babies and throwing out personal attacks and racistic remarks ("How you do it in Sweden/Germany" and so on), it really does look sad and coming from both a popular community figure and a moderator, I'd have expected something more mature from both parties.