War with Iran an increasing possibility

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The more you talk, the more foolish you appear.

Withdrawing an embassy is absolutely considered a last resort. It is only used when the host government is perceived as behaving in a fashion antithetical to the purposes of the embassy and against international norms. Withdrawing an embassy also has nothing to do with the politics behind establishing a new embassy. They are clearly polar opposites.

There is also a huge difference between recalling an ambassador and evacuating an entire embassy (not that I would expect you to understand the difference). Furthermore, the US had almost uninterrupted ambassadorial representation in the Soviet Union, with only short exceptions. The embassy was never withdrawn. Your "information" is completely WRONG.
 
The more you hit your own drum, the more ridiculous you appear. See? We can both play this funny game.

THE MORE STUPID GOP OPINIONS YOU SPOUT, THE MORE IDIOSYNCRATIC KOCH-BROTHERS COCK-SUCKER YOU SEEM!

Withdrawing an embassy is absolutely considered a last resort.
No, you silly boy. War is absolutely considered a last resort. USA has not had an embassy in Teheran since 1979. Has that meant that USA and Iran have been in a state of war? No, you ****ing idiot.

Withdrawing an embassy also has nothing to do with the politics behind establishing a new embassy.
And where did I state that? Nowhere. I merely pointed out that USA has not kept embassies in all the "states" in the world, so crying about them would seem quite foolish in the first place.

There is also a huge difference between recalling an ambassador and evacuating an entire embassy
Sure there is. But it doesn't matter a thing since USA has done BOTH.

I don't know why you persist in this constant self-humiliation, Mage. Maybe it's because you realize you're working for the Axis of Evil and wish to redeem yourself? There is life after selling your soul for the highest bidder. Welcome back to the Human Race.
 
Thank you for ignoring everything in my posts that shows you have no idea what you are talking about.
 
You didn't, did you? You went there. No arguments left, so let's go with the one-liners. Okay, I can play that game too:

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You have a problem with stuffed animals? I used to have a stuffed bear and unicorn, although I have not seen them in many years. I am certainly not ashamed of having once been fond of them, though. The sword and costume is clearly the product of a foolish and vain personality, though.

Actually, perhaps we can teach you something at this time. Who here has not had a stuffed animal?
 
Huh. I go away and Mage and Mage starts taking the conservative beatings... to be fair, Mage, it appears that you were being a bit aggressive... and Jhess - you managed venom and bitterness along with your rhetoric. Really. I think you need someone sensitive in your life to give you comfort. And remember: alcohol and posting don't mix.

I neither remember nor find reference to the US Embassy ever being recalled from the Soviet Union. Just saying. It'd be interesting to be able to recite that fact with some reference, so if you know of it, please pass it on. I'm not kidding. It is really a bit of info I'd like to know the history on... since that's the first time I'd heard it. In my recollection the Ambassador to the Sov Union was recalled several times, to take personal direction or have discussion with the State Department or the president several times during diplomatic history, but at no time with the Sov Union was an embassy 'recalled', particularly in the sense that the US ended diplomatic relations, which is nearly always the same as shutting an embassy. And closing down an embassy is usually a warning that violence can occur against the nation, at any time.

I don't understand the comment on embassies in Kosovo, North Korea, and South Sudan. Kosovo and South Sudan have embassies, to my knowledge, and had established them after the US acknowledged their status and security conditions permitted. The US works though the Swiss Consulate in North Korea - we don't have an embassy there since North Korea maintains we are still in a state of war with them. I don't know how all three nations can share any kind of the same comparison. Presently, we don't keep embassies in five nations - Cuba, Iran, Bhutan, North Korea, and Taiwan. Taiwan is not recognized by the US for concern of messing up interaction with Communist China. Bhutan is small, and unusual in that the US seems to have a 'so small not worth the embassy' position. The US has outstanding and unresolved issues  with Cuba, Iran and North Korea - so, no embassy.

For a long time we didn't have embassies is other nations, like Vietnam and Libya, for apparent reasons. However, nations we broke off official diplomatic relations, as conducted through an exchange of ambassadors, is very rare and unusual, and not common as commented.

And the United States' relationship with Iran may not be defined as a state of war, but most probably as in a heightened state of conflict - Iran may expect military action by the United States at any time, as retribution for the 1979 hostage issue and continued pursuit of nuclear weapons, threats against US allies and US interests. And the US has frozen their assets as well as interfered with their economy through sanctions and blockades throughout the years, pretty provocative short of shooting, I'd say. Not so much state of war but more like a state just short of official military conflict. Same conditions with North Korea. Cuba is simple retribution for choosing communism over americanism, and embarrassing the United States.

As far as a strategic action, it would be an amphibious and air assault. Iraq and Turkey would not allow an attack from their soil by the US, and probably Afghanistan would deny it also. The politics is that it serves no interest for any of those nations to screw their next door neihbor. Further, and land build up would take months in Iraq and Turkey, virtually impssible in Afghanistan due to logistics, and travel through the moutains in Turkey and Afghansitan would be insane. To rapidly deploy the heavy amor, mechanized infantry, and support it could only be by sea. Airborne would be rough against an established and professional military like Iran, and Air Assault is hugely limited by range. So if conflict gets to ground war, it'll be the Marines followed up by US Army via amphib.

It won't appen, though. Any conflict will be more along the lines of what happened against Serbia. Relentless hammer of infrastucture, ratcheted up daily, to provoke the civilian population to rise up against the government while weaking the state security and military appratus, the cripilling of export and import movement, the reduction of high tech and expensive to replace radar, communications, naval and air assets. And Iranian radar, SAM, and aircraft are all defeatable in the sme sense that Serbia's forces were defeatable. The United States has too many gizmos to bury medium to small opponents, missiles and ecm and eccm and eccccm et technological cetera before the planes enter Iranian airspace. Why commit ground troops when you can accomplish a regime change thrugh massive stand off attacks?

The only real deterrent now is the worry that Iran would retaliate through unconventional means, bio and chem against our allies including Isreal, as well as supporting/hiring out terrorist attacks against our civilians in the US.

And Jhess, I'm embarrased you shared that picture of me...  I mean, as long as I maintain my six pack abs and bring home a paycheck, a girl can put up with the car bed and stuffed bears...

You really, really, REALLY need a hug. You all do. Except Kobrag. He gets a manly, comradely pat on the back. maw




 
Yay, maw acknowledged me.  :oops:

I actually  do like him, despite our opposition on politics etc.
He is at least reasonable, unlike the many regurgetative **** heads that come on here.
 
Jhessail said:
rejenorst said:
I could imagine the police wouldn't bother and may even be part of the hostage takers but that doesn't necessarily mean they had orders to. Or Perhaps revenge for the storming of the Iranian Liasion office in Iraq by U.S. troops where officials working there were held for over 2 years as captives?
Nuh-uh. Nothing large-scale happens in Teheran without the permission of the leadership. The "students" attacking UK embassy did so under orders from the Mullah.

I have heard that the Republican Guard sometimes acts independently of the big Kahoona and that there has been major disagreements between the President, RG and Ruling Imam factions. What's your take on the internal politics?
 
I can comment on that...

Iran has two governments: the official, national government, handling the mundane issues through a secular lens of problem solving, and a religious government, pretty strong and independant of the national government that resolves problems based on religios opinion. It's pretty much the mulluh v. the president. And they don't agree, often.

The Republican Guard is exclusively subordinate to the religious government;  everything else is run by the secular governement, although senior levels of intelligence, ground, air and sea forces have 'true believers' that essentially act as oversight in the Iranian Armed Forces - and there are two internal secruity apparats, one religious and one secular. Methinks they run the nuclear program, as well, or at least the security and oversight part.When a bomb is made, the RG will be controlling it.

The Republican Guard is most likely soley responsible without secular approval such things as supporting Islamic terrorism through money, intelligence, training, and rest & relaxation. There are also responsible for providing training and components to the various nasty weapons, particularly high tech IEDs, to the Iraqi and Afghan insurgents. Thats pretty much why the US and other nations haven't made Iran accountable - Iran is really always on the knife edge of civil war, as the religous type are about 20% of the population, and about another 20% are Mahmoud Ahmadinejad supporters, and the rest of the country just wants to steer clear of any fallout between the two. With this confusion, the Repub Guard can get away with a lot, but so can Mahmoud, as well as various other entities such as student protestors and the like. But essentially, any hit on Iran making them accountable for the relatively small annoyance that the Republican Guard does risks uniting the nation under the religious government, ending any chance of having the Iranians replacing their government themselves.

Things like attacking the Brit embassy may be a faction of the religous types trying to curry favor; the secular government most probably wouldn't support something like that. Further, it probably wasn't necessarily done with Ruhollah Khomeini's planned intent, but he pretty much rolls with anything that enhances his stature, as any attack on the evil western satans do.

Still, it could have also been Islamic Fundamentalists in the Intelligence field, or in the security apparatus, for retaliation against the brits for something public or not so public that they did or supported - once again, without either government's approval - but, since successfull, more or less embraced afterwards for political points.

So there you have it.

As a side note - slapping Jhess around by demeaning her, or anyone else, isn't fairplay. People get passionate about their opinions, and look at issues through their knowledge and life experiences. Those experiences create a prejudicial position that, because of pride, is hard to step away from if *IF* you're wrong. Add to the fact that mostimes we don't go looking to contrary reporting or opinions... Plus, what we write doesn't come out how we're thinking it should come out.

Putting someone down personally, rather than dismantling their argument with good sourcing or argument, is not respectful, and worse since there this wall called an anonymous internet that keeps the person you attacked from physically beating you for being rude. Sarcasm might be alright in context, but putting the heel to someone for malicious pleasure definitely isn't.

As the great philosphers The Black Eyed Peas asked, "Where is the love, y'all?" maw
 
Cheers for the take on the internal politics. I heard at one point the Republican Guard even blocked off a few construction sites demanding that they get the construction contracts. I am guessing that some RG officials will use or abuse their power just like any other official in developing world might for personal gain. In the case of the embassy I guess its interesting to note the varying levels of independence in the factions. 

As for Jess, I like Jhessail. She's got balls. And I like her balls. 

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rejenorst said:
Cheers for the take on the internal politics. I heard at one point the Republican Guard even blocked off a few construction sites demanding that they get the construction contracts. I am guessing that some RG officials will use or abuse their power just like any other official in developing world might for personal gain. In the case of the embassy I guess its interesting to note the varying levels of independence in the factions. 

As for Jess, I like Jhessail. She's got balls. And I like her balls. 

kiss-me_team-america.gif
Salty right?


 
Hah, read an article yesterday stating that Iranian diplomats had left Britain.
There was a comment replied on the article that said "Are United Kingdom and Iran going to war now? If they're going to use nukes, what's going to happen to us the innocent ones?"
Some people really don't have any clue, huh?
 
Jhessail said:
kenski1 said:
It's not as if they could do anything to us or our allies. =/
The worst they could do would be to send troops into Afghanistan or Iraq.
Very true but although I'm certain that if they did make such a foolish mistake as to declare a state of war against us we would most defiantly win the war. They could cause many problems, right now we do not have the means to force an effective amphibious landing which would be the main way into Iran although we could do it it would cost us many life's, without the harrier force and with no carriers, but I very much doubt there will be anykind of war.
What the **** are you talking about? Played too much Modern Warfare? Why the **** would you want to force an amphibious landing on Iran? When the ******** country has 60% of it's borders vulnerable to Afghanistan and Iraq in the first place? And if you add Uzbekistan and Turkey, you got ALL her land borders in the mix.

1. I don't even have modern warfare.
2. Maybe before making claims such as that you should look at those countries you mentioned Iran's strongest  border is her western border after the iraq-iran war to her east the border is not as well fortified or defended but it is a mostly open desert with no real strategic importance and the Iranians would be able to pull their line of defence further back to their more populated and industrial region near the west, also there is only one narrow front along the Afghanistan border with only one good road for logistics, Pakistan would never assist in an invasion and Turkmenistan would never assist  either, the desert to the east is also a logistic hell the lack of roads that could be we defended by Iranian forces and mined and lack of infrastructure makes an invasion from the east near impossible I only said an amphibious landing is the best method but very hard as i mentioned earlier. Turkeys eastern border is the worst postion to invade from due to the terrorist forces in the area its would cause logistics hell for any invasion, and Uzbekistan learn some geography how the hell could Uzbekistan be used.
 
I know the Iranians aren't cutting the edge of technology but something akin to the Cessna isn't beyond them.
 
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