War, Wars and More Wars - I thought this was fixed???

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Midnitewolf

Sergeant
I haven't played the game in a while and recently came back. I know I distinctly read that Taleworlds had made it so Kingdoms generally tried to not be in more than one war at a time, would try to make peace if they were in a war and another faction declared war on them and would concentrate only on wars with its neighbors. It has been a while back but I am pretty sure it was in a patch note. That is unless I am confusing it somehow which at this point I am think it is possible because this is obviously NOT what is going on in game.

As a Vassal my faction, several times, declared war on a second faction WHILE it was losing the war with the faction it declared war on earlier and several times there was back to back declarations of war. I am not talking about the other faction declaring war on us, I mean us declaring war on other factions.

As a Kingdom, OH MY GOD!!! The game is literally unplayable. My Kingdom's lords keep pushing for war with the entire world as if obsessed with self destruction. I literally no sooner agree to declare war on a faction, when not a in game day later, they want to go to war with another faction with 100% support. I have even had them want to declare war on a third faction while already in wars with 2 again back to back just a few short in game days later.

I could provide an example of how ridiculous this is but want to avoid a wall of text.

Seriously Taleworlds, I am disappointed. You can easily fix this. Just change or add some code that makes it so a few checks have to take place for them to declare war.

1 - Enemy Faction Weaker or Already engaged in a War with another major faction? - Y/N - If no, then no war is declared.
2 - Are we Already at War with a major faction? - Y/N - If the answer is yes, no additional war is declared.
3 - Does the faction have territory bordering us? - Y/N - If the answer is no, then no war declared.

That is it. Just as if this were a simulation of real life, each Faction ONLY goes to War if they have an advantage and if it makes sense and unless they get declared upon by another faction, they are only engaged in ONE SINGLE WAR. Oh and Vlandia isn't trying to conquer the Kuzaitz way over on the other side of the continent two Kingdoms removed from them.
 

froggyluv

Grandmaster Knight
NW
4 - Faction just finished major war. The Populace has total War Fatigue == No War whatsoever no matter what
 

Midnitewolf

Sergeant
4 - Faction just finished major war. The Populace has total War Fatigue == No War whatsoever no matter what

I agree with the first part, not the second. A prime time for an Enemy Faction to declare war would be once your Kingdom has war fatigue so there should be a possibility of a faction declaring war on you, however, your for your faction, the idea of starting another war should be very low. There should be some sort of mandatory pause after peace is declared say at least 20 days +/- a few day before ANYONE starts thinking about a wanting to declare a war.
 

redmark

Squire
Yep, all my clans have at least once fief, some have 2-3.
Is it the one-fief clans pushing for war? Just wondering if there's some semi-logical explanation. It sounds like you have a large kingdom, possibly the strongest. There have been other reports that your clans become very aggressive in those circumstances - if your total power means you are capable of fighting multiple wars, but it's not something I've seen when your kingdom is just getting going.
 

Midnitewolf

Sergeant
Is it the one-fief clans pushing for war? Just wondering if there's some semi-logical explanation. It sounds like you have a large kingdom, possibly the strongest. There have been other reports that your clans become very aggressive in those circumstances - if your total power means you are capable of fighting multiple wars, but it's not something I've seen when your kingdom is just getting going.
Nope my biggest warmonger has 2 cities and a castle, more than any other lord. She is a Tier 6 clan though so maybe that isn't enough? I also have another Tier 6 clan that warmongers but I think it has a city and 2 castles. Both are the only ones with 4 fiefs though so they are the most powerful in my Kingdom as warrants the power they brought the the Kingdom.

The thing is, I guess I could get my head around my lords wanting a war if they wanted more fiefs but only if we weren't already engaged in a war or two. Being in two, much less three wars simultaneously however is just self-destructive behavior and isn't going to get them additional fiefs any faster. I know I am describing real motivations to AI Lords but shouldn't the AI be programed in such a way to try to mimic real life as much as possible?
 

Midnitewolf

Sergeant
Fast paced action. No need to complicate things.
There is fast paced and there is ridiculousness. Also I kind of feel this game is sort of a simulation with diplomacy and empire building and management elements being a big part of it. You can't build anything if your lords keep you locked into a self-destructive cycle of wars with 2-3 factions all at the same time. Also if all I wanted was constant battles, I could just jump into a custom battle over and over and over.

No what I want is to build up my empire and expand at a logical pace. For example, after taking some territory, take some time to build it up and stabilize it before declaring war again or if my faction gets beat up, take some time to rebuild before declaring war again. Also I want logical reasons why we are going to war such as the enemy my lords want to attack is weakened or maybe in a war or two of their own and are ripe for the pickins, not for my faction to just go to war with the Khuzait who are at peace, are super strong and are two kingdoms away.

I am also not opposed for another faction to see an ripe opportunity to declare war on me either but so far, no one has declared war on me, it is always my lords pushing for war against them despite our situation. I have even had a lord currently engaged in a siege against one faction push to declare war with another faction on the opposite side of our territory when clearly every lord in our army was in armies fighting the current war which would leave us defenseless.

So fast paces....OK I think it is fun that while in a War your face paced. However, I want to be able to achieve peace then slow down the pace so I can do other things besides fight.
 

Gandamula

Sergeant
I just take a break, to smoke a cigar, because my last 2 hour game play as a king was a constant war, I destroyed all enemies armies and I have to accept bad peace treats to have a break and organize my kingdom, I simply can't get nobles to my kingdom. I think I will start a choping heads season, because the game is to unfriendly.
 
There is fast paced and there is ridiculousness. Also I kind of feel this game is sort of a simulation with diplomacy and empire building and management elements being a big part of it. You can't build anything if your lords keep you locked into a self-destructive cycle of wars with 2-3 factions all at the same time. Also if all I wanted was constant battles, I could just jump into a custom battle over and over and over.

No what I want is to build up my empire and expand at a logical pace. For example, after taking some territory, take some time to build it up and stabilize it before declaring war again or if my faction gets beat up, take some time to rebuild before declaring war again. Also I want logical reasons why we are going to war such as the enemy my lords want to attack is weakened or maybe in a war or two of their own and are ripe for the pickins, not for my faction to just go to war with the Khuzait who are at peace, are super strong and are two kingdoms away.

I am also not opposed for another faction to see an ripe opportunity to declare war on me either but so far, no one has declared war on me, it is always my lords pushing for war against them despite our situation. I have even had a lord currently engaged in a siege against one faction push to declare war with another faction on the opposite side of our territory when clearly every lord in our army was in armies fighting the current war which would leave us defenseless.

So fast paces....OK I think it is fun that while in a War your face paced. However, I want to be able to achieve peace then slow down the pace so I can do other things besides fight.

I agree, I should have put a sardonic smiley.
 

Grumpy181155

Sergeant at Arms
WBVCWF&S
I am a vassal and my kingdom is constantly at war with 4 other factions. As soon as peace breaks out with one faction the kingdom decides to go to war with a 4th faction immediately and there is zero support for peace. The only time there is any support for peace is when a 5th faction declares war on us. Our kingdom is the largest with about 1/3rd of the map under our control.
 

Midnitewolf

Sergeant
I just take a break, to smoke a cigar, because my last 2 hour game play as a king was a constant war, I destroyed all enemies armies and I have to accept bad peace treats to have a break and organize my kingdom, I simply can't get nobles to my kingdom. I think I will start a choping heads season, because the game is to unfriendly.
Honestly I couldn't imagine playing this game unmodded because it would have to be virtually impossible. Because I have my learning rate modded, my character has some good levels of charm and such which makes recruiting lords somewhat easy if they have decent positive relation with me. However, if I had been playing completely native, I bet it would take thousands of in game days to get to where I am.
 

redmark

Squire
Honestly I couldn't imagine playing this game unmodded because it would have to be virtually impossible. Because I have my learning rate modded, my character has some good levels of charm and such which makes recruiting lords somewhat easy if they have decent positive relation with me. However, if I had been playing completely native, I bet it would take thousands of in game days to get to where I am.
It doesn't take thousands even on vanilla (I'm pretty cautious and methodical, but have become the most powerful kingdom, with plenty of vassals, some of whom paid me to join the kingdom, within ~1500 days); though it should. It's supposed to be a multi-generational game, and you're an upstart clan competing against others that have built their position over decades or centuries. Unrivalled power should be by the 2nd or 3rd generation, not the starting character's mid to late 30s. Renown gain is too fast - unless you like the quick version. Needs to be a configurable option.

Which also of course (coming back to your original point) would require other AI kingdoms and your own vassals to chill out and have periods of peace occasionally :smile:.
 
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Because

Sergeant
I am also not opposed for another faction to see an ripe opportunity to declare war on me either but so far, no one has declared war on me, it is always my lords pushing for war against them despite our situation. I have even had a lord currently engaged in a siege against one faction push to declare war with another faction on the opposite side of our territory when clearly every lord in our army was in armies fighting the current war which would leave us defenseless.
I'm in the same boat as after the initial founding of my kingdom when everyone piles on I haven't had a single other faction declare war on me for in game years now and am only mid tier in terms of power. The only ones pushing for war are my own lords all of whom have fiefs. Currently testing to see if any other faction will ever declare war on me (due to the policies chosen I can go a good long while over-ruling my lords suggestions). Something tells me it will never happen though.
 

Midnitewolf

Sergeant
It doesn't take thousands even on vanilla (I'm pretty cautious and methodical, but have become the most powerful kingdom, with plenty of vassals, some of whom paid me to join the kingdom, within ~1500 days); though it should. It's supposed to be a multi-generational game, and you're an upstart clan competing against others that have built their position over decades or centuries. Unrivalled power should be by the 2nd or 3rd generation, not the starting character's mid to late 30s. Renown gain is too fast - unless you like the quick version. Needs to be a configurable option.

Which also of course (coming back to your original point) would require other AI kingdoms and your own vassals to chill out and have periods of peace occasionally :smile:.

The thousands of days has more to do with my skill level than anything. I have something like 180 charm or something like that plus most of the other skills that are checks in persuasion results are pretty high as well. I would probably be looking at 100+ real hours or more of gameplay to get to these levels.

Also you have to ask what would keep a player playing 200-300 hours on the same playthrough. I can guarantee you it is not fighting constantly for 200-300 straight. In fact as you point out, having times of peace actually makes it easier to play for a longer period of time because when your Kingdom is at peace, your generally spending most of your real time on the campaign map with time compression on which might actually allow for that multi-generational game play experience. I mean I only have so many hours a day to play, so what advances game time faster, 30 minutes spend in a battle that effectively pauses the game clock or 30 minutes running around the map doing whatever with time compression on? 30 minutes on the campaign map would probably burn up a whole year of game time.

That being the case they should be shooting for a balance of time at war, to keep the player engaged, and a time for peace, in which to give the player a break for constant fighting and allow for game time to burn off under time compression. It might not even hurt to increase the time compression a bit to allow for faster campaign map movement, again to burn in game time while not impinging on a player available play time.

If they did something like that they might actually have a chance of making the game multi-generational.

As it is with the constant wars, I am completely burnt out. Right now I really bored and really want to play my campaign but I just can't bring myself to start up the game and load my save knowing that I will be faced with endless wars. Quite frankly no matter how much I love Bannerlord, I am just to damn burnt out on fighting battles over and over and over for hours on end. I also don't want to see the Kingdom I made go up in smoke so I can't just ignore the wars either. Blah.
 

Gandamula

Sergeant
Honestly I couldn't imagine playing this game unmodded because it would have to be virtually impossible. Because I have my learning rate modded, my character has some good levels of charm and such which makes recruiting lords somewhat easy if they have decent positive relation with me. However, if I had been playing completely native, I bet it would take thousands of in game days to get to where I am.
Mainly because they, the South Empire, don't have any city, I conquered all their cities, they only have two Castels, so where they get money to recruit troops?
 

Because

Sergeant
I'm in the same boat as after the initial founding of my kingdom when everyone piles on I haven't had a single other faction declare war on me for in game years now and am only mid tier in terms of power. The only ones pushing for war are my own lords all of whom have fiefs. Currently testing to see if any other faction will ever declare war on me (due to the policies chosen I can go a good long while over-ruling my lords suggestions). Something tells me it will never happen though.
Gave up after three after 3 game years with no wars declared against me, despite near empty garrisons in a border town and castle. Shows how variable the game can be as left to it's own devices as long as I stop my lords declaring war in this playthrough it looks like I'd get eternal peace.
 

Midnitewolf

Sergeant
Gave up after three after 3 game years with no wars declared against me, despite near empty garrisons in a border town and castle. Shows how variable the game can be as left to it's own devices as long as I stop my lords declaring war in this playthrough it looks like I'd get eternal peace.
So guess wars are utterly broken then? Got to wonder if the problem here is that it is not a fully developed feature due to it being EA or if it is just neglect on the part of the developers? I mean wars and kingdoms are a pretty big part of this game so you would think they would have wanted this to be a close to done BEFORE it released to EA or if not before, very soon after yet here we are almost a year later and its obviously broken or just flat out missing parts of its underlying mechanic. Kind of scary since despite a game being labeled EA, everyone knows that players tend to judge a game it like EA it was a release or nearly so.
 
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