Resolved War declarations by AI seems to be unbalanced in 1.5.4 (constant state of 3 kingdoms vs 1)

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Version number
e1.5.4
Branch
Beta
Modded/unmodded
No, I didn't use any mods.

Blood Gryphon

Master Knight
WBVC
Yes kingdom policy proposing AI should be added to game also. Currently they are proposing policies nearly random. Only their characteristics are effective. There should be better AI and if kingdom need influence they should propose policies giving influence or if clans need money they should propose a policy giving extra gold.
To be honest I didn't realize that! This would be a huge improvement to Kingdoms and could be a big tool to help with snowballing and keeping kingdoms alive. Policies should definitely be fluid overtime and depending on the situation.
 

HugoTheFrenchMan

Master Knight
Yes kingdom policy proposing AI should be added to game also. Currently they are proposing policies nearly random. Only their characteristics are effective. There should be better AI and if clans need influence they should propose policies giving extra influence or if clans need gold they should propose a policy giving extra gold.
You learn something new everyday i guess since I did not know this but this would help a lot:lol::lol:
 

Blood Gryphon

Master Knight
WBVC
To me it started with 1.5.4 never had it with older versions or at least did not notice
Yeah its hard to notice because most the time you want to vote for things ASAP. I found out while trying to see if I could just not vote for something and not take a relation/influence hit for something that was guaranteed, but then it just never got voted for. I actually haven't had this happen in 1.5.4 yet but the situation hasn't happened where I didn't want to vote for something.
 

HugoTheFrenchMan

Master Knight
Yeah its hard to notice because most the time you want to vote for things ASAP. I found out while trying to see if I could just not vote for something and not take a relation/influence hit for something that was guaranteed, but then it just never got voted for. I actually haven't had this happen in 1.5.4 yet but the situation hasn't happened where I didn't want to vote for something.
Yeah I guessed so it's more noticeable when you're a vassal since there is more things that have no reason to be voted for while when playing as a ruler you need to give them out but it is still in 1.5.4 at least for me
 

Rycon Caldestan

Sergeant at Arms
WBVC
Yes kingdom policy proposing AI should be added to game also. Currently they are proposing policies nearly random. Only their characteristics are effective. There should be better AI and if clans need influence they should propose policies giving extra influence or if clans need gold they should propose a policy giving extra gold.
Is there a system in place that has any cultural preference towards/against certain policies?
 

Blood Gryphon

Master Knight
WBVC
Is there a system in place that has any cultural preference towards/against certain policies?
From what he said the answer is no, they only use their traits to decide things (what is in the red box)

Lu3jz.jpg
 
@mexxico last night I was baffled at campaign AI way of thinking. We (the hardy sturgians) were chasing some vlandian horsemen off of our lands, roughly 1200 of us and 600 of the vlandian swine, who were in their natural fleeing behavior, however, half of our adjacent lords decided to weir off and chase a pack of 8 looters instead, leading to a 600v600 clash happening literally next to them leading to heavy casualties. Why? Would it be possible to improve the AI party movement?
PS i have the savegame of this, just before it happens, and it happens all the time unless I am the one who is chasing the looters off and join the fight later.
 
Yes kingdom policy proposing AI should be added to game also. Currently they are proposing policies nearly random. Only their characteristics are effective. There should be better AI and if clans need influence they should propose policies giving extra influence or if clans need gold they should propose a policy giving extra gold.

+1 🙏
I can't think of anything better to add intrigue to the campaign than having entities' decisions informed by their personalities + situation.
 

mexxico

Developer
@mexxico last night I was baffled at campaign AI way of thinking. We (the hardy sturgians) were chasing some vlandian horsemen off of our lands, roughly 1200 of us and 600 of the vlandian swine, who were in their natural fleeing behavior, however, half of our adjacent lords decided to weir off and chase a pack of 8 looters instead, leading to a 600v600 clash happening literally next to them leading to heavy casualties. Why? Would it be possible to improve the AI party movement?
PS i have the savegame of this, just before it happens, and it happens all the time unless I am the one who is chasing the looters off and join the fight later.

Can you send your save game to [email protected]

I need to examine it. Thanks.
 

Pizi_G

Veteran
what happend twice to me now is this
im Vlandian lord and when a war vote comes up i click on the circle, look at it but do not vote immediately (i close the window with Esc)
then the kingdom never votes and you cannot vote either later
 
This should be fixed at both 1.5.4 and 1.5.5 currently. @elysebluemoon you can make it solved.
@mexxico im still experiencing this issue in 1.5.5. I was playing an Aserai campaign. Signed on as a merc for Aserai and they were soon at war with 3 kingdoms. They would not sue for peace at all. I left the kingdom and they started making peace. I later joined NE and same thing happened.
 

mexxico

Developer
@mexxico im still experiencing this issue in 1.5.5. I was playing an Aserai campaign. Signed on as a merc for Aserai and they were soon at war with 3 kingdoms. They would not sue for peace at all. I left the kingdom and they started making peace. I later joined NE and same thing happened.

You cannot be sure if this is a bug or not in a short time period like 1-2 seasons. You can check if still this problem not fixed or fixed by fastforwarding time and watching game for 1-2 years. During this time if they make peace at least one time this means problem is fixed.

If still issue and they did not made peace for 1-2 years you can send your save game to [email protected]
 

AfLIcTeD

Sergeant at Arms
You cannot be sure if this is a bug or not in a short time period like 1-2 seasons. You can check if still this problem not fixed or fixed by fastforwarding time and watching game for 1-2 years. During this time if they make peace at least one time this means problem is fixed.

If still issue and they did not made peace for 1-2 years you can send your save game to [email protected]
It seems that when a player is part of a faction (leader, vassal, merc) the chance for peace is reduced. Most of the time the player has to innitiate the vote. Other kingdoms will not offer peace to the player's kingdom either.
Every game that I have played the AI kingdoms are mostly at peace with each other. Very rarely do you see factions in more than one war at the same time. If they do they are instantly making peace. It's common to see factions declare war on another, only for those two factions to make peace instantly.
Surely wars should have to go on for a certain amount of days before peace can be made. This also means you cannot gang up on strong AI kingdoms (Khuzaits) to try and slow them down. This means that they only have to focus on one faction at once, meaning easy snowball.
Seems like most kingdoms are too passive, apart from player factions.
 
You cannot be sure if this is a bug or not in a short time period like 1-2 seasons. You can check if still this problem not fixed or fixed by fastforwarding time and watching game for 1-2 years. During this time if they make peace at least one time this means problem is fixed.

If still issue and they did not made peace for 1-2 years you can send your save game to [email protected]
Sir, thank you for the response. I will have to try that again and see what happens. I really don't know how long those wars went on. I know it was not a year. I feel like at least one or two seasons passed, but not a year. I'll have to try again. I started a different campaign. But the problem I have is that even though I wasn't at war that long the Khuzaits were already taking city after city. I think the real issue is just the Khuzaits being OP. Every new campaign I start I feel like I'm really just racing against the Khuzaits to try and win. Basically the Khuzaits are like the end level boss.

I also tried to be sneaky. I tried to become a Khuzait mercenary so I could get multiple folks to declare war on Khuzait. They would not take me as a mercenary. The pop up said something like "we don't need mercenaries to win this war". That's how arrogant the Khuzait AI is. The Khuzait AI is so arrogant they said they don't need me. I almost feel like the Khuzait AI has become sentient and is actually controlling development at Taleworlds and they won't let you all make them weaker. Be honest with me Mexxico. Are you taking orders from Monchug? ;.) I'm kidding.
 

Blood Gryphon

Master Knight
WBVC
It seems that when a player is part of a faction (leader, vassal, merc) the chance for peace is reduced. Most of the time the player has to innitiate the vote.
This is intentional, as of 1.5.5 kingdom decisions are reduced by 33% as a vassal and 66% as a ruler, so the player has more agency and the AI doesn't rule your kingdom for you (use to be very annoying not feeling like the decision maker). Before this it was a flat 50% (even if you were a mercenary that couldn't vote lol).
Other kingdoms will not offer peace to the player's kingdom either.
@mexxico I've been meaning to bring this up, is this a bug or intentional? I have not once been offered peace by another faction.
Every game that I have played the AI kingdoms are mostly at peace with each other. Very rarely do you see factions in more than one war at the same time. If they do they are instantly making peace. It's common to see factions declare war on another, only for those two factions to make peace instantly. Surely wars should have to go on for a certain amount of days before peace can be made.
Yep the limiting of wars has significantly helped with snowballing, was way worse before 1.5.1 (this was intentional). But yeah this is essentially how they are renegotiating tribute payments when strength levels drastically change (so its a good thing). I wonder if they can come up with a way to trigger negotiations instead of quick wars, as I know this confuses a ton of players.
This also means you cannot gang up on strong AI kingdoms (Khuzaits) to try and slow them down. This means that they only have to focus on one faction at once, meaning easy snowball.
Seems like most kingdoms are too passive, apart from player factions.
You'll actually see once kingdoms get strong enough to take on two smaller kingdoms they will. After a few years you'll see Khuzait is pretty often at two wars, not that this stops them from snowballing as they have several other reasons they are OP(speed and autocalc).
 

AfLIcTeD

Sergeant at Arms
This is intentional, as of 1.5.5 kingdom decisions are reduced by 33% as a vassal and 66% as a ruler, so the player has more agency and the AI doesn't rule your kingdom for you (use to be very annoying not feeling like the decision maker). Before this it was a flat 50% (even if you were a mercenary that couldn't vote lol).
This isn't an issue on it's own. Until you pair it with the second point of kingdoms not offering the player factions peace. Most of the time your clans don't want to make peace, so you will eventually be in a three front war, or more and no way to make any peace. Unless you have thousands of influence to override them. Meanwhile the AI factions are in cushty 1v1 wars.
I don't know about others but I find it rather boring when nothing is happening on the map. Would like to see factions engaging in at least some 2 front wars.

You'll actually see once kingdoms get strong enough to take on two smaller kingdoms they will. After a few years you'll see Khuzait is pretty often at two wars, not that this stops them from snowballing as they have several other reasons they are OP(speed and autocalc).
Very rarely do I see factions in multiple wars, even when Khuzaits own the eastern side. Every time look at that diplomacy screen to see who at war with who. Either they're at peace (Aserai, always at peace) or 1 or 2 of them are in 1 war.

We'll just have to see what they come up with. Gonna be hard to get it right. Just wish they would ease up on the passive kingdoms.

Two things I would like is 1. Kingdoms to offer peace to the player. 2. AI Kingdoms to be able to decline peace offerings, from the player or the AI.
 
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Blood Gryphon

Master Knight
WBVC
Two things I would like is 1. Kingdoms to offer peace to the player. 2. AI Kingdoms to be able to decline peace offerings, from the player or the AI.
Spot on. I have a feeling 2 not being figured out is the reason we don’t have 1.

I can see 2 being a problem, how are we suppose to stop snowballing kingdoms from just denying peace offers so they can wipe out kingdoms in one war. Right now it’s kind of a safeguard to let weak kingdoms tap out of wars. That said 1 is important regardless of 2 because the AI should be able to tap out of wars with the player.
 

AfLIcTeD

Sergeant at Arms
Spot on. I have a feeling 2 not being figured out is the reason we don’t have 1.

I can see 2 being a problem, how are we suppose to stop snowballing kingdoms from just denying peace offers so they can wipe out kingdoms in one war. Right now it’s kind of a safeguard to let weak kingdoms tap out of wars. That said 1 is important regardless of 2 because the AI should be able to tap out of wars with the player.
I guess they could have some sort of exaustion feature. The longer a war goes on the more likely they will make peace, that way they won't keep denying peace. Right now if another kingdom declares war against a snowballing faction they will instantly make peace and the faction snowballing will continue mauling whatever faction.
Kingdoms in multiple wars doesn't cause snowballing. Unbalanced kingdoms do.
 
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