[W6C] Warband 6-aSide Cup Sign-Up Thread [Groups Announced]
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I didn't say that at all. The people who vetted board requests were moderators, the person who created the boards was Janus. He didn't grill us on who's deserving of what, he trusted us not to waste his time. He created boards for anything we sent him. Board requests that didn't meet standards didn't make it to Janus, and as such were never created. There's the possibility that some moderators simply didn't take these requests seriously or didn't care, meaning some tournaments which would have benefited from a board never got the chance. What the groups feature does is let anyone who wants to run a tournament skip the "application" process for a board and just make it themselves. I don't see how this is complicated or undesirable at all, and I won't continue explaining it.
It was decided months ago that we're not creating child boards for tournaments anymore. Use your group or thread. If you want the old way so damn much, let me know and I'll delete your group so you can run your tournament out of a thread instead.
Was this a TW decision?
When it was decided months ago, was there any thought on how to communicate this to the community, or was the intention to keep quiet until the first tournament requesting a child board was organized?
Whatever about the discussion about child boards and groups, I think this could have been avoided had people been aware of the new method for hosting a tournament, allowing them to decide whether they wanted to do it or not.
I guess that would have meant advanced notice though which would likely have garnered a lot of discussion, something that was being avoided?
When it was decided months ago, was there any thought on how to communicate this to the community, or was the intention to keep quiet until the first tournament requesting a child board was organized?
Whatever about the discussion about child boards and groups, I think this could have been avoided had people been aware of the new method for hosting a tournament, allowing them to decide whether they wanted to do it or not.
I guess that would have meant advanced notice though which would likely have garnered a lot of discussion, something that was being avoided?
No moderstors, global or otherwise, ever vetted a board request during my time as a moderator. And the person who created the boards was Lust. Janus may have done a few but he always deferred to Lust.
This comment is actually the funniest out of all your posts. Pretty sure this mere 26 team tourney (dropped from 30) is far more than NA could get probably even in the past 3 - 4 years no offence intended to NA players. You even made a sob story about how Lust would not give you a board, now act like a egocentric child drunk on TW forum power when all we ask or 'complained' or 'pestered' you guys about was a getting a tourney board for far better functionality, exposure and honestly I have more knowledge about the boards than the groups.
Mostly all of the community (competitive EU) want tournament boards. Then your too high and mighty to even try to find a compromise instead make threats to remove groups which i'm pretty sure is not within TW TOS, Moderators can't just remove groups because they dislike the person who owns it just because I have made a few snarky remarks about the group system. All this because we want to play the game xD
& This post, are you saying warband tournaments will still get boards? And so will bannerlord? or is this me misreading/not understanding? If so what is the criteria for a tournament?
Honestly doesn't look like it. Warn me, mute me you can do whatever you want for me writing this but pretty sure no one is happy about this situation. I'm just trying to host a tournament for a dying game we have all spent years playing, enjoying and clearly the players who have signed up wanna continue playing.
Yes.
Find a compromise? There is no compromise to be had. You will not get a board, and I am not the one standing in your way on that issue. The switch to XenForo has considerably changed how many things are handled for staff and admins. You don't know the half of it, and I won't waste more of my time listing everything for you. If you continue acting like a child then you will be treated as one.
Also, and let me make this perfectly clear, I did not threaten to delete your group. I asked if you wanted to utilize it or if you'd prefer to run this out of a thread. Other than continuing to argue this with someone as hopeless as you, I've done nothing untoward here.
Neat. Must have changed in the shuffle then, because that's how it's been since 2017, and before then it was Lust's purview. Lust couldn't make the boards after he stopped being an employee. Thanks for chiming in, though! I have nothing to gain by lying about any of this, and I'm continuing to participate in this discussion at my own detriment, but thanks for making this a question of my integrity now.
I suppose some notice should have been made, although, it was only very recently the group permissions were fixed. The reason it was so short notice is because we pretty much have been waiting for months on end for this feature but it took a while for it to come and it finally came during the sign-up process of the W6C.
If you remember, this isn't the first time groups were used, originally the latest WNL was in a group but due to the permissions being gashed, it had a board.
Here's the WNL8 group before the board was created (and no one kicked up a fuss iirc).
It has been pushed ever since zenforo had groups.
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Team Banner:Team name: Poland 2
Team Tag: POL2
Contact 1: Krzyzak- https://steamcommunity.com/id/krzyzakkk/
Roster:
TheShy 713997 ID2 Blade 1070170 ID2 Virus 39959 ID2 Blackhawk 95125 ID2 Krzyzak 987904 ID2 Zoro 509294 ID2 Rookie 1083641 ID2 Player 8 ID1 ID2 Player 9 ID1 ID2 Player 10 ID1 ID2
Totally missed this sorry bro, accepted.
We are still looking for one more team.
Indeed, this was a TW decision, it had nothing to do with our team originally.
What saddens me when reading this thread, and phrases like the one quoted above, is that you are pouring your frustration on someone who, not only didn't make the call about switching to groups, but who I know cares about the scene. Hell, out of our 4 global moderators team he's the one closest to it and the one you could work with the most to push things forward.
Groups are less visible than boards, I do agree with that, but as has been stated many times before in this very thread, the functionality they offer (albeit, with some bugs right now) means nobody ever needs to go through anyone to set their tournament up.
Now, why can't we be open-minded and give things a shot instead of dismissing them? Why can't we find something that works for everyone? For example having a board with one mega thread per tournament with core announcements and a link to each tournament's group? That way folks can find the tournament easily, and then click on a link that takes them to the group where the tournament admins can set things up the way they want.
Again, the current bugs don't help, but once that's fixed, why can't we try this?
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I'm happy with pestering people for boards especially if it meets the requirements which for me was reasonable and logical, why give boards to small tournaments? or tournaments with 10 teams while 'SMALL EU TOURMAMENTS' could get 20+ and get boards?.
Imagine a system where people can click from warband discussion to The Arena - Multiplayer from there can see every warband tournament to ever take place. That would be a crazy world, perhaps you could see tournaments which took place in 2010? or tournaments as recent as 2020 crazy... I just don't see any merit in changing something that works. & Once given a board you can mould it to your way, just as you can with a group. Groups for me will never be a good thing & boards will always be superior in every way and far more popular.
Imagine a system where people can click from warband discussion to The Arena - Multiplayer from there can see every warband tournament to ever take place. That would be a crazy world, perhaps you could see tournaments which took place in 2010? or tournaments as recent as 2020 crazy... I just don't see any merit in changing something that works. & Once given a board you can mould it to your way, just as you can with a group. Groups for me will never be a good thing & boards will always be superior in every way and far more popular.
Creating a thread with ongoing and archived tournament groups could help with visibility a lot. That's probably a good idea if we are to keep creating groups for tournaments.
Sarcasm usually takes you nowhere in an argument, all it does is antagonize the other party, keep that in mind for life in general.
I don't entirely disagree with you, I would not have changed this myself originally, but since groups now exist and they do allow you to avoid having to ask for a board, us having to go through the request, and Janus having to set it up, I don't see why we can't try them out. Especially if we ave that thread or board I mentioned before for visibility.
im a simple man, i want to know what happens in warband, i go on the warband forum. I know where to look and i know the result is reliable.
Now when this group is drowned amidst hundreds of others it is hard and frustrating to check em and come back to them.
Warband, the "dead" game, still has massive interest in the competitive scene, hundreds that want to play, and a huge load of new teams with players who started playing only recently. They dont know much yet, but they know where to look for a tourney! its this forum and its tourney subboards.
even if it isnt everyones intention: we are being but in some shady, lonely corner, left to fend for ourselves. Really makes us feel appreciated. The tournaments contain the most dedicated players of the franchise, having stuck with it for years and some for a decade, having amassed thousands and thousands of hours each.
Let us keep the subboards, please. Its a matter of respect and appreciation.
Now when this group is drowned amidst hundreds of others it is hard and frustrating to check em and come back to them.
Warband, the "dead" game, still has massive interest in the competitive scene, hundreds that want to play, and a huge load of new teams with players who started playing only recently. They dont know much yet, but they know where to look for a tourney! its this forum and its tourney subboards.
even if it isnt everyones intention: we are being but in some shady, lonely corner, left to fend for ourselves. Really makes us feel appreciated. The tournaments contain the most dedicated players of the franchise, having stuck with it for years and some for a decade, having amassed thousands and thousands of hours each.
Let us keep the subboards, please. Its a matter of respect and appreciation.
Aimed at whoever was involved in the making the decision:
It was a big blow when the forum update shredded 10 years of history into piles of **** looking, broken threads, now the next target are tournaments. It would have been a sensible move to consult with some tourmament hosts you trust, and ask them what they think is needed in order to make groups work as a replacement. This way you could have at least avoided the functionality issues, and only affected user preferences. I'm thankful the forum moderation allowed us to run the WNL through a board again when it became clear groups don't work in their current state. And whilst seemingly some improvements have been made, groups are still far from functional in the way they should be in order to be an adequate replacement for boards.
Apart from the NA versus Lust incident, board creation never proved to be a huge hurdle for tournaments, using that as a precent on why the whole system is bad doesn't work in my opinion. There are enough moderators that seem reasonable enough to be able to make good calls on which tournaments are deserving of a board, and which ones aren't. You could have had three of those on a decision making board, equipped with the rights necessary to create boards, in order to deal with issues regarding bottlenecks and bias.
This, once again, is a poorly communicated decision by people who have little to no understanding of what the community needs or wants.
It was a big blow when the forum update shredded 10 years of history into piles of **** looking, broken threads, now the next target are tournaments. It would have been a sensible move to consult with some tourmament hosts you trust, and ask them what they think is needed in order to make groups work as a replacement. This way you could have at least avoided the functionality issues, and only affected user preferences. I'm thankful the forum moderation allowed us to run the WNL through a board again when it became clear groups don't work in their current state. And whilst seemingly some improvements have been made, groups are still far from functional in the way they should be in order to be an adequate replacement for boards.
Apart from the NA versus Lust incident, board creation never proved to be a huge hurdle for tournaments, using that as a precent on why the whole system is bad doesn't work in my opinion. There are enough moderators that seem reasonable enough to be able to make good calls on which tournaments are deserving of a board, and which ones aren't. You could have had three of those on a decision making board, equipped with the rights necessary to create boards, in order to deal with issues regarding bottlenecks and bias.
This, once again, is a poorly communicated decision by people who have little to no understanding of what the community needs or wants.
Team Banner:
Team name: Excercitus Imperatorius
Team Tag: ExImp
Contact 1: Erethor - Steam
Contact 2 : Erzmeister Ben - Steam
Roster:
Erzmeister Ben 62981 ID2 Erzritter Lamastos 69180 ID2 Erzritter MacMajor 1092013 ID2 Erzritter Blee 1337761 ID2 Erzritter Erethor 458203 ID2 Erzritter Maxi 1429221 ID2 Erzritter Julianator 624623 ID2 Erzritter Lilja 39932 ID2 Erzritter Hochmeister ID1 ID2 Erzritter Juju ID1 ID2
I had to do some changes because of issues.
I will fill the gaps asap, please contact Erethor for further business as he has more time to do the organising stuff.
Looking forward for the battles
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I personally fixed every single broken bbcode tag in the Athenaeum and Pantheon the day the forums launched. I was the one who decided they were worth stickying in the first place, and the one to do it. I'm the only global moderator on this forum to have any competitive background, and it wasn't just playing in NA. Aside from leading a clan and 2 NC teams, I ran 2 tournaments of my own in 2012/2013, consulted for many more, and did a lot of the heavy lifting for a fast & demanding European tournament which was also the first online tourney to receive TW sponsorship (BCM). Not many people in this community have run events of such scale on both sides of the pond, and precious few more care enough about both sides to even try. That number is now one less, because I no longer have any good faith in the toxic cesspit that is EU competitive. You sink or swim on your own now, and I will no longer spend my time arguing on your behalf with people who know nothing about you but have power over what you do here. It could have been so much worse. You think you're an afterthought now
I specifically wrote that my comment is aimed at the people who made the decision, so, based on your previous posts, not you, but TaleWorlds. I understand you have to stick your neck out trying to defend the decisions the people above you make, but you seem to think that my comment was directly aimed at you. It wasn't. Unfortunately, the people who make the decisions don't stick up for them here on the forums, maybe someone can send them a link so they can read what those affected by their decisions think.I personally fixed every single broken bbcode tag in the Athenaeum and Pantheon the day the forums launched. I was the one who decided they were worth stickying in the first place, and the one to do it. I'm the only global moderator on this forum to have any competitive background, and it wasn't just playing in NA. Aside from leading a clan and 2 NC teams, I ran 2 tournaments of my own in 2012/2013, consulted for many more, and did a lot of the heavy lifting for a fast & demanding European tournament which was also the first online tourney to receive TW sponsorship (BCM). Not many people in this community have run events of such scale on both sides of the pond, and precious few more care enough about both sides to even try. That number is now one less, because I no longer have any good faith in the toxic cesspit that is EU competitive. You sink or swim on your own now, and I will no longer spend my time arguing on your behalf with people who know nothing about you but have power over what you do here. It could have been so much worse. You think you're an afterthought now
Edit: The groups themselves aren't the issue, if that wasn't clear from my first post. Their disfunctionality is. As I've written before, once groups do offer the full range of tools that are necessary to run well organised tournaments, the choice between them and a board simply comes down to preference. Naturally, when two tools offer the same functionality, there can't be a superior option. Whether the communities preference should be taken into account is another question altogether, and most likely pointless to discuss anyway, because as you wrote, the people who make the decisions don't even know about us. Regardless and as mentioned somewhere, the WNL immediately created such a group when we were asked, without complaining. I was more than willing to give them a shot, but because of the limited functionality we had to go back to our board. There is no reason why this tournament with 25 teams shouldn't get a board as well until groups function as intended.
As for the 'toxic cesspit' comment, and where it is most likely coming from: I strongly disagree with the decision you made on Fietta, whether you like it or not, and as long as my perception of what actually happened doesn't change, that won't change. Thankfully, I'm just one of many forum users, surely you have more important things to worry about. The fact I do disagree with that decision also doesn't take away any of the respect I have for you and your work otherwise. The NA vs. Lust incident definitely had the wrong outcome, a mistake that thankfully was never repeated again. That is why it certainly shouldn't serve as a basis for TaleWorlds now to shove disfunctional groups down our throat, therefore undeniably hurting the quality of Apollos tournament. As I wrote, I'm thankful you allowed the WNL to use its old board again when the groups didn't work, and I also thanked you on multiple occassions for all the work you have done on the Athenaeum and Pantheon. Not like the forum update was your decision either, but both threads would certainly look a lot worse without you.
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Genuinely unsure what has led you to believe EU competitive is a 'toxic cesspit' when its biggest community names are people like Scar, Deacon, Aeronwen and Tardet, people who put a lot of personal time into helping the scene and others. There have been dozens of people like that over the years.
You can hardly think it's surprising that when someone who is already a controversial figure in the community (fietta) makes an active effort to subvert/undercut/attack a well-liked, well-respected community member (scar) that has spent hundreds of hours voluntarily helping out, that a situation is created in which people feel justified in decrying the person responsible. This isn't the sign of a 'toxic cesspit', it's the sign of a community that actually supports its own members.
I don't think Apollo should be as negative or sarcastic towards you as he is being, it seems unnecessary to me, but that doesn't detract from the core of what he's saying:
- Warband tournaments have always had boards
- The group system doesn't function properly
- Give this tournament a board so it can function properly
The argument that it makes it easier to automate a large number of requests simply doesn't make sense, because there is not and has never been a large number of requests for Warband tournament boards. Talking about the future with Bannerlord and a potential large number of requests there just seems strange to me, because the discussion is not about BL, it is not about the future, we are talking about a 6v6 Warband tournament happening right now. Why not just use the group system for the future and for Bannerlord, as you have suggested you want to, and continue with the established norm for Warband for the next few months until tournaments inevitably stop being hosted? It's not a difficult thing to do, you just don't want to.
Tournaments, events et cetera will be organised in groups, which are in their essence own boards and in their functionality exactly the same.
The only "downside" one may perceive is a less notable spot in the forum, which imo is a good thing. The amount of boards eventually just takes way to much space so you're down to searching anyway.
Which is why Erminas and I considered pinned lists that keep track of on-going events and would include an entry template that is fairly consistent to what you use to sign up a team for a event. Another benefit: Check for events in the exact same spot every time and we can create a proper looking list that isn't as boring as the way boards would be listed if there was a childboard for every tournament again. It's a similar concept to the mega threads you may have seen in quite a few places.
The new forum allows for a group feature that essentially automates requests and provides everyone with a little board on their own that is ideal for organising these types of things. Before you had to get a mod to pass along the request to someone with admin powers etc and now it's "make a group and wait for approval" which actually takes less time.
The only "downside" one may perceive is a less notable spot in the forum, which imo is a good thing. The amount of boards eventually just takes way to much space so you're down to searching anyway.
Which is why Erminas and I considered pinned lists that keep track of on-going events and would include an entry template that is fairly consistent to what you use to sign up a team for a event. Another benefit: Check for events in the exact same spot every time and we can create a proper looking list that isn't as boring as the way boards would be listed if there was a childboard for every tournament again. It's a similar concept to the mega threads you may have seen in quite a few places.
That very much depends on your perception of a large number of requests, but the issue doesn't really come down to simple mathematics.
The new forum allows for a group feature that essentially automates requests and provides everyone with a little board on their own that is ideal for organising these types of things. Before you had to get a mod to pass along the request to someone with admin powers etc and now it's "make a group and wait for approval" which actually takes less time.
The old forums simply didn't offer the group feature that eliminates the necessity for boards to actually run these events. Since we do now, we go forward using that feature fore the already mentioned reasons. For anything else consider the top of this post.
