W+W for cav. Bumps and damage from horses with 0 speed, and slooooow inf spears

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Terco_Viejo

Spanish Gifquisition
Grandmaster Knight
i agree with u, spears from warband is the way to go
[...]
We all know your skills with spears in the game and you have my respects. However, in my humble opinion not all 2h spears in Bannerlord should be able to perform side swings like in warband, let me explain.

The problem lies in which animation is conducive to manoeuvrability by weapon length. In Bannerlord we have that most of the spears have a longer length if we compare them with warband.

Here are three weapons that we know well.

9Ak-4.jpg


In the first image, the spear is short enough to favour the kind of side swings we find in warband that resemble Filipino-style spear/staff fighting and other Asian arts. Therefore, transferring that performance to Bannerlord as long as the weapon size/use ratio is kept, I see it as plausible.

When the spear exceeds the aforementioned lengths, we are no longer strictly speaking about spears, but about polearms (not the poleaxe/axes variant). The use of the awlpike in warband is that even though the dimensions are not much bigger than the short spear. Therefore, in my opinion this type of weapon should not be able to perform lateral swings and should rely on overhead, from below or depending on the weapon (menavlion) stabbing animations with vertical swings from top to bottom. Also, given that we wouldn't have horizontal swings, I would favour those stabs with a repositioning of the weapon after releasing the blow (discussed here).


And finally there are the glaives. They certainly have to be able to swing, it is obvious according to their typology. The problem (in my eyes) in Bannerlord is that these weapons are too long (see Khuzait units), I would personally reduce them to warband's small ones sizes and for horseback a I would penalise its use with a manoeuvrability restriction (swing arcs) as I commented here.

In short, a revision of the weapon usage/animation allowed in weapon:
  • 1H spears like in Warband
  • 2H short spears like in Warband. Small dimensions to allow a fast lateral swing in a plausible way.
  • 2H long spears without horizontal swing, only overhead stabs and stabs from below (*experimental optional - handle grip extensible).
    • 2H special cutting spears/polearms menavlion type, only stabs overhead, from below and vertical swing cut (bracing in longer ones). Manoeuvrability penalty. I commented about it here.
  • 2h glaives, as in warband but with size reduction for mounted unit versions.

Menavlions on horseback, never.
 

Shatti

Squire
WBWF&SNWVC
We all know your skills with spears in the game and you have my respects. However, in my humble opinion not all 2h spears in Bannerlord should be able to perform side swings like in warband, let me explain.

The problem lies in which animation is conducive to manoeuvrability by weapon length. In Bannerlord we have that most of the spears have a longer length if we compare them with warband.

Here are three weapons that we know well.

9Ak-4.jpg


In the first image, the spear is short enough to favour the kind of side swings we find in warband that resemble Filipino-style spear/staff fighting and other Asian arts. Therefore, transferring that performance to Bannerlord as long as the weapon size/use ratio is kept, I see it as plausible.

When the spear exceeds the aforementioned lengths, we are no longer strictly speaking about spears, but about polearms (not the poleaxe/axes variant). The use of the awlpike in warband is that even though the dimensions are not much bigger than the short spear. Therefore, in my opinion this type of weapon should not be able to perform lateral swings and should rely on overhead, from below or depending on the weapon (menavlion) stabbing animations with vertical swings from top to bottom. Also, given that we wouldn't have horizontal swings, I would favour those stabs with a repositioning of the weapon after releasing the blow (discussed here).


And finally there are the glaives. They certainly have to be able to swing, it is obvious according to their typology. The problem (in my eyes) in Bannerlord is that these weapons are too long (see Khuzait units), I would personally reduce them to warband's small ones sizes and for horseback a I would penalise its use with a manoeuvrability restriction (swing arcs) as I commented here.

In short, a revision of the weapon usage/animation allowed in weapon:
  • 1H spears like in Warband
  • 2H short spears like in Warband. Small dimensions to allow a fast lateral swing in a plausible way.
  • 2H long spears without horizontal swing, only overhead stabs and stabs from below (*experimental optional - handle grip extensible).
    • 2H special cutting spears/polearms menavlion type, only stabs overhead, from below and vertical swing cut (bracing in longer ones). Manoeuvrability penalty. I commented about it here.
  • 2h glaives, as in warband but with size reduction for mounted unit versions.

Menavlions on horseback, never.


I Totally agree with this, it gives options and variation to the game just like warband.
In fact, in a past thread i was talking about bringing back the shorter “medium length spears” to the classes after they changed them to long slow spears. and give these shorter spears the swinging mechanic while keeping the longer spear also as an option.
the players can choose between the combat “warspear” and the long “anticav” spear.

But sadly, taleworlds and most of the forum users want spears to thrust horses, and thats it...
Its very very sad,,
Yes, the sad part that it’s not about spears only,
u come to the forums and u see people start to talk about removing throwing weapons from a class, or restricting this class from riding a horse. Or give an idea to remove a mechanic just for balance.
Its stupidly overwhelming, so i don’t participate a lot in the forum discussions,
I just say WTF and leave
the spear discussions keeps attracting me though

Edit: also thankyou for ur kind words at the biginning ;p
 

Terco_Viejo

Spanish Gifquisition
Grandmaster Knight
I Totally agree with this, it gives options and variation to the game just like warband.
In fact, in a past thread i was talking about bringing back the shorter “medium length spears” to the classes after they changed them to long slow spears. and give these shorter spears the swinging mechanic while keeping the longer spear also as an option.
the players can choose between the combat “warspear” and the long “anticav” spear.

But sadly, taleworlds and most of the forum users want spears to thrust horses, and thats it...
Its very very sad,,
Yes, the sad part that it’s not about spears only,
u come to the forums and u see people start to talk about removing throwing weapons from a class, or restricting this class from riding a horse. Or give an idea to remove a mechanic just for balance.
Its stupidly overwhelming, so i don’t participate a lot in the forum discussions,
I just say WTF and leave
the spear discussions keeps attracting me though

Edit: also thankyou for ur kind words at the biginning ;p

Exactly, it's just applying a certain plausibility to the use of this type of weapon. It's like the sarranid's bamboo one, in warband you can swing horizontally, vertically and stabbing... By length, that weapon in Bannerlord under my point of view should not be able to swing horizontally... for practicality speaking. On the other hand, short spears... why not? of course they would. I don't know... a little bit of care in the size/use-animation balance.

And for sure there will be people who have different opinions, but that is why we are here. I know we are not currently at the best stage for our feedback to be heard; but I certainly encourage you to keep sharing your ideas :wink: .
 

Firunien

Grandmaster Knight
I Totally agree with this, it gives options and variation to the game just like warband.
In fact, in a past thread i was talking about bringing back the shorter “medium length spears” to the classes after they changed them to long slow spears. and give these shorter spears the swinging mechanic while keeping the longer spear also as an option.
the players can choose between the combat “warspear” and the long “anticav” spear.

But sadly, taleworlds and most of the forum users want spears to thrust horses, and thats it...
Its very very sad,,
Yes, the sad part that it’s not about spears only,
u come to the forums and u see people start to talk about removing throwing weapons from a class, or restricting this class from riding a horse. Or give an idea to remove a mechanic just for balance.
Its stupidly overwhelming, so i don’t participate a lot in the forum discussions,
I just say WTF and leave
the spear discussions keeps attracting me though

Edit: also thankyou for ur kind words at the biginning ;p
Well, dude, the people who wanted long spears for Infantry wanted to get them a tool against cavalry, it wasnt about giving them a slow spear. The problem why you cant have your own style of play is because of the class system, there simply is no room for personal preference, like prefering short sword over sword or prefering a short spear over long spear, those little choices are all gone by design . We just gotta live with that until MP mods will get rid of that abomination of a system.
 
Nah, buffing spears in any way other than making them more anti-cav will bring back spear meta, which was cancer
They just need to increase the dmg based on speed of the ennemy. It stays the same vs foot soldiers, but destroys horses. I agree that ATM, spear is very good in infantry fights, boosting spear vs inf would be OP.

Completely agree with all the points in the OP.
 
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