(Vote included) New update and the caravan remains 30. And it was claimed it get supported

[Ted Striker]

Someone posted this on steam forum about how aggressive the AI is towards caravans now

Tell me it's not broken.

 

[Moifaso]

But that is a pointless test to run. It has nothing to do with how the game progression works. You do not start with gold for 3 caravans nor the gold for the companions to run them. If you loose one you still make the money with the two other ones.

How long does it take to grind from 0 to 18k + companion gold in real game time?
Then you loose it before it has even made back the investment. Zero profit and zero progression. All that time grinding to 18k wasted and your progression to mid game when you can start taking castles set back by hours.
No one in their right mind would take that risk considering the real life hours it takes to get the gold to have one caravan only to loose it and having to disband your army as you can't afford it anymore and have to start the grind to 18k again.

Does it make any IRL sense to invest all your savings in a business that runs the risk (however small) of completely disappearing in a day?

 

[cnconrad]

I just did a test run, caravans still delete in next to no time despite being at peace with everyone except a single faction with no land.

Created 3 caravans
Spring 1, 1099
-18,000 each
Party wages -140-150 each

First caravan destroyed Spring 19, 1099

The other two are now making a profit of 50 and 750 respectively income minus wages. That is at least 67 more days until I break even. But that doesn't even count the first 10-15 days I payed wages and got nothing.



@mexxico you have to understand that this is a terrible experience for the player. It doesn't matter what your tests of starting 7 caravans at day 1 says. This feature is simply going to turn people away. The losses are massive and upfront. Everyone who defends the caravan change references how easy it is to get money from other means. Based on the caravan nerf I am assuming you guys plan to balance the rest of the game to a similarly low profit margin. So, we will not be swimming in cash. Unless the player has money to burn there is no reason at all to throw the dice on a caravan.


I will state this once again:
This is not an enjoyable experience. Caravans risk versus reward is completely out of wack compared to the rest of the game. The only reason someone would be ok with risking their money with no control is if they have more money than then know what to do with. Then, there is no reason to actually invest in them since you don't need the profit they will eventually bring.

 

[barthez4]

@mexxico, here are my thoughts.

1. It is generally a GOOD change that caravans are now seen as a higher priority target, and thus are a bigger risk. There may need to be some slight tweaking on exactly how much of a target they are seen as, since there are some weird instances where half the kingdom chases them down. But the added risk is a good change.
2. It seems strange that we have to use a Companion to do it, when there are so many caravans and traders out there. Would it be possible to instead hire caravans and be given the following options? Obviously a lot of people play the game to be a warlord but part of the sandbox experience is being able to carve out an existence in a lot of different ways, so not being limited by your Companion count if you are being a pure goods trader would be key.
   1. When creating the caravan:
      1. What town would you like the caravan to focus on? (This means that you could be in Imperial lands, create a caravan and instruct them to work their way towards Sturgian lands, and operate mostly in that area, rather than having to go all the way there just to start it.)
      2. How many caravan guards do you want to keep? (Options of 20, 30, 40, 50)
         1. This would change both the Up Front costs and the Wages
         2. Higher troops leads to more security but also slightly slower travel speed
      3. Do you want to send a Companion to lead the caravan?
         1. Sending a Companion would give additional profits based on their trade skill
   2. When encountering the caravan in the field, be able to talk to them and change any of the above options, including taking the Companion back, or disbanding the caravan.
3. Thanks for all your hard work!

 

[Ted Striker]

A good system would use companion skills to determine caravan size, strength and profitability. We aren't there yet.

High Trade would naturally mean more profit

High Stewardship would mean larger caravan size

High Tactics would mean stronger simulation

High personal weapons skill would make maybe that companion alone stronger (I don't have a good idea for warrior companions here)

I wouldn't want a system where only one type of companion would be useful for caravans, like how it is now when wanting a surgeon you only look for companions with medicine. I think different skills should give different bonuses. A high steward would make your caravan appear stronger, making it less likely to be attacked, but high tactics could be deceiving and reward the caravan with loot and prisoners to sell or recruit from enemies that think they're an easy target - smaller caravan size but a lot of strength and possibly more profit from loot and prisoners.

There are many ways the devs can make this all work but first they have to fix how easy they are to destroy and how often they're targeted.

 

[BattanianDruid]

Yes and no. Cause war parties when I'm out of contract or contracted to someone who's at peace with everyone makes profit barely above wages cost by hunting bandits.

As for Caravan as I wrote this is 7th day after starting this one. Previous was making 600-1300 daily and destroyed somewhere around 80 day after starting it.
Workshop is jumping between 120-900 and most of the time it's around 300. I had two other but my merc job made me lose them so I don't bother now cause if you're changing sides all the time they are not worth it.

That makes sense. A war party is most profitable when at war while caravans have the lowest chance at returning your investment during war time due to higher risk.

I feel like shops being destroyed when you are at war with someone is a bit extreme. I prefer the set up they had in Warband where they merely seized your assets but the shop itself remained and would go back to profiting you once the war was over.

A good system would use companion skills to determine caravan size, strength and profitability. We aren't there yet.

High Trade would naturally mean more profit

High Stewardship would mean larger caravan size

High Tactics would mean stronger simulation

High personal weapons skill would make maybe that companion alone stronger (I don't have a good idea for warrior companions here)

A high Roguery skill could make the caravan be able to pay for safe passage when the caravan would have otherwise lost a battle and been destroyed. Maybe even be able to take on bandits as additional guards when low on manpower. Or be able to sell illicit goods to make a bigger than normal profit at a risk of being discovered when entering towns.

I really like the addition of Roguery as a skill but the rogue companions don't seem to do anything yet.

 

[MrOldManJenkins]

Guys, talk to your Caravan leader in the keep before they leave, change to 30 horsemen of any kind and the caravan will move at 7.5 speed(ish).

Your caravan will never be captured. I've got my own kingdom frequently at war and all 3 of my caravans have survived for years now.

Plus make the caravan origin is the furthest away from any possible front.

Also a companion with high trade has sometimes got me 3k+ (look for spicevendors)

Get Better and stop whingeing.

edit : sorry if this has been repeated but after reading 2 pages i was pulling my hair out

 

[Valdyr]

sorry if this has been repeated but after reading 2 pages i was pulling my hair out

well, given the fact that any attempt to tell them the issues were fixed and they just have to update their game and learn how it functions ends up with more whining and demanding a rollback...
kind of makes you ashamed of this community at times
input, input, input, but very little thinking and discovery of the actual mechanics.

 

[MrOldManJenkins]

very little thinking and discovery of the actual mechanics.

?so true, tbh I've found bannerlord way easier than warband, far easier to make bank.

plus I love how people complain 'oooo i can't trade main' 'oooo i can't smith main' 'I dont want to battle!'

The game is a primarily a medieval combat/lord/battle simulator

If you wanted a trade simulator buy a game that revolves around that OR wait until the game is out of early release and we get a trade dlc

 

[Yasqueen]

Your economy whinning will be the downfall of the first weeks and months of Bannerlord, Talewords be listening to yall money boys while money in itself has no value whenever you reach the mid and late game, there is litteraly no money sink, caravans are useless.

But since every one of you is complaining about it, it's taking the dev team most of their times and ressources and we dont get any new features, you guys are obnoxious

 

[Korven]

There are no visible borders in the game.

I would say:

Caravans on the land of an enemy (why would you go there anyway) or some one they are also in war und yours can be attackt.

If your Caravan stays in neutral Lands, they should not be allowed to be attacked.
I would be upset if an army comes in to my land and attacks a caravan.


Give the Caravan orders to stay away from danger and the Bandits and free Mercenary (maybe a Quest to hunt caravans for this) are your only problem.

A caravan should not have the Manpower of a big army.

--
Hunting as free Mercenary caravans for a lord oder getting info that a lord sends some one to attack yours would be nice quests.

 

[Jiet]

I again tested latest situation by forming 3 different caravans at game start. I give my character 3 caravan forming cost money by cheat and formed 3 caravans, one at Aserai town Quyaz, one at Sturgia town Omor and one at Khuzait town Chaikand. Only one is destroyed at day 15. After 10 days past from the day it is destroyed I formed another caravan from same town. In total I formed 4 caravans. The latest one I formed and two of first three caravans survived at the end of first year. They all bring me 114K, I payed about 30K for caravan wages. In total I ended year with 96K of money just doing nothing but waiting in a town (some money remained from initial money cheats thats why my end money is not fit perfectly). Also still I have 3 caravans running probably they will bring me another 100K until they are destroyed.

Of course situation can change in late game (where bandits are 3x powered) or if you have lots of enemies or if you executed lots of lords in Calradia and if bandits are overpopulated however I made another test this morning in late game (year 1093) too. Situation was not so different, a bit risky than this. Some players get used to earn much from caravans (1K daily for long years like 400 days in total 400K from one caravan) however these caravans are not supposed to feed your armies. These are side mechanics. If you do not like new numbers and risks you do not have to form them. They were so OP before after nerf they are still good, if you see no value you do not have to form them. If player swims in money game become not challanging. We are also aware of lord battles are so easy and give tons of loot they will be fixed too. Different people are responsible from different parts. We are not trying to make game so hard but it should be reasonable not so hard not so easy.

I know game has missing features, some perks are not working, there are less quests less diplomacy options, war peace mechanics are a bit basic currently. Here lots of people are working for a better game in weird world conditions and everybody has their own responsible areas. Any of us cannot fix problems out of our responsible areas. I am trying to make parts which I am responsible better. If you need other things to be fixed before balancing / trade issues you need to reach people responsible from these parts, they are all aware of problems and working hard too. I am here sharing developments with you and getting your ideas / feedbacks to create a better and balanced trade systems.

Any changed formula or game rule is not final point currently. We will collect datas watch gameplays and do needed adjustments in next patches if needed.

We know you want more micro management at parts you are spending time at game. All ideas will be evaluated. According to priority and time we will schedule and implement some of them.

Does the specific town you start a caravan in have an effect on its pathing? Or on it in any way at all?
Do companion's trade skills actually impact the caravan's profitability?
Why don't caravans level the companion's trade skills in the same way a companion party levels stewardship?

 

[mexxico]

Does the specific town you start a caravan in have an effect on its pathing? Or on it in any way at all?
Do companion's trade skills actually impact the caravan's profitability?
Why don't caravans level the companion's trade skills in the same way a companion party levels stewardship?

1-Yes, it returns home settlement once in 2 weeks generally and it 50% pass its time visiting settlements close to its home settlement however it can go further settlements sometimes too. (Later we can add more micromanagement about its path or region, not major issue currently)
2-Yes, while selling / buying items from settlements applied trade penalty is effected from your companion's trade skill but its effect can be less because generally there is no companion with high trade skill can be added later.
3-I will check if there is a problem (not major one currently), they should slowly gain trade skill. There can be a bug currently.

 

[MrOldManJenkins]

1-Yes, it returns home settlement once in 2 weeks generally and it 50% pass its time visiting settlements close to its home settlement however it can go further settlements sometimes too. (Later we can add more micromanagement about its path or region, not major issue currently)
2-Yes, while selling / buying items from settlements applied trade penalty is effected from your companion's trade skill but its effect can be less because generally there is no companion with high trade skill can be added later.
3-I will check if there is a problem (not major one currently), they should slowly gain trade skill. There can be a bug currently.

Great to hear. I played mount & blade since the first one so i'm loving all the extra features.

adding on Jiet's point the player doesn't receive any trade XP for running caravans but I think that is a known bug?

Anyway really appreciate these near constant updates & caravans are fine Thanks mexxico!

 

[mexxico]

Great to hear. I played mount & blade since the first one so i'm loving all the extra features.

adding on Jiet's point the player doesn't receive any trade XP for running caravans but I think that is a known bug?

Anyway really appreciate these near constant updates & caravans are fine Thanks mexxico!

By the way I am not sure player would gain trade xp because of having caravan however companion probably would. I am not only one deciding these things will check later.

 

[Woopzilla]

By the way I am not sure player would gain trade xp because of having caravan however companion probably would. I am not only one deciding these things will check later.

I don't think player should, but yes to companions.

Companions don't get Trade, Scout or Leadership skill XP when leading Caravan or Parties. I think they should... it's difficult to get high leadership companions to delegate quest to (e.g. Train 10 troops quest needs high leadership companion).

Also, they only simulate experience for weapon in slot #1? They don't seem to use other weapons in their loadout during sim battles.

 

[DrDragonlance]

Thanks for all the updates Mexxico!

 

[Earth Dragon]

I feel some folks really just have to take a deep breathe and realize some of their issues could very well be caused by them “doing it wrong”.

Losing shops because your faction goes to war with that cities: you did it wrong, the game doesn’t need to change.

Losing caravans because you keep establishing them in fringe cities: you did it wrong, game doesn’t need to change.

Complaining because of constant economic changes due to fine tuning the economy needed to happen before moving on to other features: you are doing early access wrong, and you need to adjust your mindset.

We all want to add our feedback, but “I’m not a fan of this change” is far more productive then meltdown “roll this **** back now” nonsense

 

[Shaggy_711]

I really don't understand why everyone, TaleWorlds included, is so hung up on the fine tuning of caravans right now. The game is a very early beta with many of its core features yet to be implemented (I hope).

Balance can wait.

 

[Earth Dragon]

I really don't understand why everyone, TaleWorlds included, is so hung up on the fine tuning of caravans right now. The game is a very early beta with many of its core features yet to be implemented (I hope).

Balance can wait.

Economic balance needs to be there for folks to enjoy other things. If you can’t get the war machine going, you can’t participate in those other features. Sadly for players, they didn’t realize the economy was overturned to start