(Vote included) New update and the caravan remains 30. And it was claimed it get supported

How do you think the caravan party size need to be changed?

  • 0 - 30 is fine

    Votes: 113 42.2%
  • 1

    Votes: 11 4.1%
  • 2

    Votes: 6 2.2%
  • 3

    Votes: 15 5.6%
  • 4

    Votes: 8 3.0%
  • 5 - it needs to be changed ASAP

    Votes: 49 18.3%
  • Just get back to the original party size

    Votes: 66 24.6%

  • Total voters
    268

Currently viewing this thread:

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We know you want more micro management at parts you are spending time at game. All ideas will be evaluated. According to priority and time we will schedule and implement some of them.

First of all, thanks for your interactions on the forum. I can't imagine how daunting it must be with the massive numbers and feedback you're getting right now. Just never doubt that despite much of it being harsh in some places, my own included, we're appreciating what you're doing and what you're trying to create here.

Secondly, I know my opinion on caravan balancing is basically useless, since I've never used them before or after the patch, but it's exactly the reason I'm writing in the first place. My issues with caravans was exactly the lack of micro management, or management at all, of caravans in the first place.

If there were some way to actively influence the size of the caravan, their destinations, or even just a generalized budget to assign to them, I'd be much more interested in engaging with the mechanic at all. Granted, it would be possible to say that protecting your caravan manually is some form of player interaction, but that's not really reasonable to expect to be fun or profitable no matter how the income of caravans is tweaked. Is there any chance at all that the whole system gets an overhaul from being so passive? Maybe have the player supply the troops of the caravan manually?
 

Pejot

Knight at Arms
WBVC
From what I see on the forum majority of the people that complain about recent caravan changes are not interested in trading part of the game all along.
If You play a trader You actually see that those nerfs are needed but if You just exploit mechanics to make the game easier You find it annoying.

From my perspective right now there are so many ways to make money that most players don't need to bother with anything that's boring/annoying or to hard for them.
Caravans and workshops are nice addition if You play a merchant char and focus on trading. Passive income for fighters is based on fighting. Currently I'm playing a merc I have my band and one of companions leads another party. I'm making 1-4 k from Merc contract (depending on number of fights I had). My companion party gives 1k excees gold (it was annoying to start his party over and over but after 4 weeks of doing that he raised his skills to the point where he's hard to kill and he brings money). I'm making tons of money on loot and prisoners and I really don't need to bother with any other way to make passive gold. When a contracts starts to be less profitable I leave the kingdom and look for better one (I this point I have enough money to easily survive without passive income but still my companion party is chasing bandits and bringing money).

So basically there's no need to cry that caravans are bad and not profitable if You're more warfare focused cause that's actually how they should be if You have enemies.
As for Caravans being to nerfed. The are not. They bring great profit to my merchant character and are quite save against bandits (lost only one after 6 in-game weeks and made profit on it).
 
It would be very nice if people could voice their opinions without resorting to insulting everyone that doesn't agree with them by saying they are "crying" or "just want to exploit the game".

Different people can have different thoughts on how the game should play and that is okay. The entire point of this forum and Early Access is to voice our thoughts.

I'm making 1-4 k from Merc contract (depending on number of fights I had).

How is this possible? My contract only gives me 60 gold per battle. I'd need to do 16 fights a day or pull in 1K from that.
 

Pejot

Knight at Arms
WBVC
It would be very nice if people could voice their opinions without resorting to insulting everyone that doesn't agree with them by saying they are "crying" or "just want to exploit the game".

Different people can have different thoughts on how the game should play and that is okay. The entire point of this forum and Early Access is to voice our thoughts.



How is this possible? My contract only gives me 60 gold per battle. I'd need to do 16 fights a day or pull in 1K from that.

Look for better contract. I have one for 330 per fight.

Also forgive me if Somone felt I'm insulting him that wasn't the purpose.
 
Look for better contract. I have one for 330 per fight.

Also forgive me if Somone felt I'm insulting him that wasn't the purpose.

Well dang. Raganvad is a cheapskate!

I didn't realize they could get that high. So far I've only been offered contracts in the 10-60 range with Raganvad offering the most money I've seen for a merc contract.
 

Pejot

Knight at Arms
WBVC
Well dang. Raganvad is a cheapskate!

I didn't realize they could get that high. So far I've only been offered contracts in the 10-60 range with Raganvad offering the most money I've seen for a merc contract.

Thery can be higher the best I got was 360 per battle. Look for rich bastards that wage a lot of wars. Also they now lower in time. Merc live is not an easy one but can be profitable :smile:

P. S.
Would be nice if they implement some kind of rumor mechanic telling who pays best. It might work like trade rumors that's it's not certain but still a hint.
 
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Durf

Sergeant
ZsFRY9U.png
 

Vicmona

Veteran
WBNW
Maybe they should start with extra units. Overtime they can start losing troops either by bandit attacks (bandit should attack regardless of strength difference) or desertion.
AI caravans should do the same so that it won't be cheating.
After the caravan compensate some portion of its cost it will be more likely to get destroyed by bandits because it has less troops. And it would be much less annoying.
 

sherdil

Recruit
I again tested latest situation by forming 3 different caravans at game start. I give my character 3 caravan forming cost money by cheat and formed 3 caravans, one at Aserai town Quyaz, one at Sturgia town Omor and one at Khuzait town Chaikand. Only one is destroyed at day 15. After 10 days past from the day it is destroyed I formed another caravan from same town. In total I formed 4 caravans. The latest one I formed and two of first three caravans survived at the end of first year. They all bring me 114K, I payed about 30K for caravan wages. In total I ended year with 96K of money just doing nothing but waiting in a town (some money remained from initial money cheats thats why my end money is not fit perfectly). Also still I have 3 caravans running probably they will bring me another 100K until they are destroyed.

McumF.png


Of course situation can change in late game (where bandits are 3x powered) or if you have lots of enemies or if you executed lots of lords in Calradia and if bandits are overpopulated however I made another test this morning in late game (year 1093) too. Situation was not so different, a bit risky than this. Some players get used to earn much from caravans (1K daily for long years like 400 days in total 400K from one caravan) however these caravans are not supposed to feed your armies. These are side mechanics. If you do not like new numbers and risks you do not have to form them. They were so OP before after nerf they are still good, if you see no value you do not have to form them. If player swims in money game become not challanging. We are also aware of lord battles are so easy and give tons of loot they will be fixed too. Different people are responsible from different parts. We are not trying to make game so hard but it should be reasonable not so hard not so easy.

I know game has missing features, some perks are not working, there are less quests less diplomacy options, war peace mechanics are a bit basic currently. Here lots of people are working for a better game in weird world conditions and everybody has their own responsible areas. Any of us cannot fix problems out of our responsible areas. I am trying to make parts which I am responsible better. If you need other things to be fixed before balancing / trade issues you need to reach people responsible from these parts, they are all aware of problems and working hard too. I am here sharing developments with you and getting your ideas / feedbacks to create a better and balanced trade systems.

Any changed formula or game rule is not final point currently. We will collect datas watch gameplays and do needed adjustments in next patches if needed.

We know you want more micro management at parts you are spending time at game. All ideas will be evaluated. According to priority and time we will schedule and implement some of them.
Thanks, buddy!

I always enjoy reading your posts and explanations. It always brings so much clarity to the development. I am really happy that you and the rest of the team are so passionate about this.

Thank you and please keep up the great work!
 

Pejot

Knight at Arms
WBVC
Screen just to show that income is quite good from many different sources.


As You can see I'm making most of my passive income from Merc Contract but I'm also getting quite good income from Workshop, Companion War Party and Caravan (i need to note that this Caravan was created 7 days (in game time) before taking screenshot. I had a lot more profit from previous Caravan that was up and running for around 80 days making between 600-1300 profit.

So there's so many ways to gain profit that caravans are not a must have. That's why i'm perfectly fine with the risk to them.
 
As You can see I'm making most of my passive income from Merc Contract but I'm also getting quite good income from Workshop, Companion War Party and Caravan (i need to note that this Caravan was created 7 days (in game time) before taking screenshot. I had a lot more profit from previous Caravan that was up and running for around 80 days making between 600-1300 profit.

So there's so many ways to gain profit that caravans are not a must have. That's why i'm perfectly fine with the risk to them.

Looking at your link your brewery is out-earning your caravan by quite a lot. So is your war party. Is this a particularly low pay day for your caravan or is it just consistently not yielding as much income as the shop (a safer and cheaper option) and your war party (that doubles as military power for your personal armies)?

The question isn't really "can you make money without caravans?" The answer to that is obviously yes. The question is "are caravans a good investment in comparison to other options?".

Looking at this it seems like war parties are just all around a better use of your companion's time.
 

Pejot

Knight at Arms
WBVC
Looking at your link your brewery is out-earning your caravan by quite a lot. So is your war party. Is this a particularly low pay day for your caravan or is it just consistently not yielding as much income as the shop (a safer and cheaper option) and your war party (that doubles as military power for your personal armies)?

The question isn't really "can you make money without caravans?" The answer to that is obviously yes. The question is "are caravans a good investment in comparison to other options?".

Looking at this it seems like war parties are just all around a better use of your companion's time.

Yes and no. Cause war parties when I'm out of contract or contracted to someone who's at peace with everyone makes profit barely above wages cost by hunting bandits.

As for Caravan as I wrote this is 7th day after starting this one. Previous was making 600-1300 daily and destroyed somewhere around 80 day after starting it.
Workshop is jumping between 120-900 and most of the time it's around 300. I had two other but my merc job made me lose them so I don't bother now cause if you're changing sides all the time they are not worth it.

Current Merc contract is for 330 per battle plus money from gained influence. Since I'm Merc I'm fighting a lot.

P. S.
@mexxico
Just a cosmetic thing but I think You should change "exceed gold" into "income" or something cause exceed means above cost and right now it's not the amount above cost but income and exceed gold is calculated in total. Or I'm missing something here (sorry if I'm wrong but that's how I see it).
 
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I like the change that caravans have risk. I think this was a good decision.

I think the way to fix the issue is with the companion you select to run the caravan. If they could get XP and level up by running the caravan and gain skills to further protect the caravan that would be ideal.

A companion could get the skills to level up the troops in the caravan, then making them all high level defenders and less easily prayed upon.

If a companion running the caravan gained XP in Scout, Medical, Leadership, and Trade they could level up those skills, overtime they would continuously be better and the cost of restarting caravans would decrease.

I think tweaking the benefits of the companion running the caravan would be a better choice rather than tweaking caravans again.

After the update, I rapidly lost both of my caravans. I waited a while and restarted one. So far its still going. It was attacked twice and survived both attacks.
 

Relgior

Recruit
30 is ****

they were killed by looters and bandits to often.
then you can run up to the ass off the world to get your compangion back

50 is ok i think
 

ShadInqu

Recruit
They should keep it at base 30, but add perks from trading/(maybe stewardship), that let you run bigger, more efficient caravans. Caravans with 0 trading skill companions should be high risk ventures that you need to shadow until they get learn their trade.
 

mexxico

Developer
Yes and no. Cause war parties when I'm out of contract or contracted to someone who's at peace with everyone makes profit barely above wages cost by hunting bandits.

As for Caravan as I wrote this is 7th day after starting this one. Previous was making 600-1300 daily and destroyed somewhere around 80 day after starting it.
Workshop is jumping between 120-900 and most of the time it's around 300. I had two other but my merc job made me lose them so I don't bother now cause if you're changing sides all the time they are not worth it.

Current Merc contract is for 330 per battle plus money from gained influence. Since I'm Merc I'm fighting a lot.

P. S.
@mexxico
Just a cosmetic thing but I think You should change "exceed gold" into "income" or something cause exceed means above cost and right now it's not the amount above cost but income and exceed gold is calculated in total. Or I'm missing something here (sorry if I'm wrong but that's how I see it).

This is a good example of getting use of different game mechanisms (mercenary contract, workshops & caravans). Thanks for data provided. Its so interesting you also mentioned a clan party bringing you 1-2K daily. I think this one made a successfull raid in last days. Otherwise it is hard for them to make that much profit easily, maybe did a big battle and get a good loot and plundered gold.

About your advice of changing "exceed gold" with "income", yes you are right. It will be better with this word exchange.

Generally all your clan parties and workshops make you payment if their gold/capital > 10000. You get 20% of exceed gold ((Gold/Capital - 10000) * 0.2) daily. This is why text is like that currently but as you said income can be better word.
 

Pejot

Knight at Arms
WBVC
This is a good example of getting use of different game mechanisms (mercenary contract, workshops & caravans). Thanks for data provided. Its so interesting you also mentioned a clan party bringing you 1-2K daily. I think this one made a successfull raid in last days. Otherwise it is hard for them to make that much profit easily, maybe did a big battle and get a good loot and plundered gold.

About your advice of changing "exceed gold" with "income", yes you are right. It will be better with this word exchange.

Generally all your clan parties and workshops make you payment if their gold/capital > 10000. You get 20% of exceed gold ((Gold/Capital - 10000) * 0.2) daily. This is why text is like that currently but as you said income can be better word.

Thanks for info. Now I understand a little more of how it works and the meaning of Capital in Workshop when You look at "Other" tab in clan screen.

As for war parties after some training done to my companion (deploying him as party leader over and over until he raised his skills) he always brings profit. It just varies between 200 (when I have no contract and he just chases bandits) to 1-2k when I have contract and he starts to actively participate in battles with lords. Even saw him in our employer army few times so that may be the reason he get good loot.
 

Fryskar

Recruit
Just wanted to add some additional data.
Straight link to the op i made in steam:
And an excel sheet where i documented their numbers:

I made a new save on 1.1.1.
The only things i did was getting 7 companions, founding 7 caravans and sitting around. I set myself to clan level 6 on day ~10. Then i cheated myself to lvl 10 at day 61 (day -1 is gamestart, day 1 is founding of the first caravan), lvl 20 at day 120 and joined the western empire as merc for a quick war-test, they were at war with sturgia for the rest of the 50days i tested.
To do so i used following mods
Regular launcher got problems with one mod i normally used so also

I cheated the companions to some skilllevels, to see if any affects them in a noticeable way. I gave them no perks.

In total 1/7 caravans got defeated, 1/7 remained totally untouched and 2/7 never lost any troops.
After 200d the average profit (after wages and the 18k to found) was only 50k.

One thing i'd like to see gone is caravans freeing peasents and to a degree recruits causing valueable troops to desert.
 
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Gman8181

Recruit
Just my 2 cents. I had a game going when this change was made that was probably fairly mid to late game. My caravans were being captured pretty much every 30 minutes. I was playing an independent trader, so none of it was due to wars, but exclusively due to the large number of bandits roaming the map.

With the current state of the game, 30 troops for the caravan is just far too little. They get attacked near constantly, and even when surviving a few battles, they'll eventually get run down by attrition.

Personally, I think a good compromise is letting the player decide caravan size, but have the caravan upkeep depend on the set size. Ideally, the sizes you can set would depend on the skills of your companion and your clan ranking, and the cost would be related to the actual upkeep of the troops in the caravan. Even a more simplified implementation would probably be effective though. Each player could make the choice between high profit and high risk, versus low profit and low risk.

Hopefully, they still remain a bit more profitable than workshops though, considering they use a companion which can't help lead armies / provide you with their skills.

Edit: Someone else already said my suggestion, so +1 to them, and shame on me for not reading through all the comments.
 
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