Vlandian Pikemen fixed in one easy step! Khuzaits HATE him!

[Big_Guy_4_U]

Funny title aside, I'm making a troop tree mod and I found two minor fixes to Pikemen that make them viable

One, there's a Tier 5 Vlandian pike that the Pikemen were not using, so I gave them that. Second, I got rid of all weapons from the "Voulgier" except its two handed sword and gave the Pikemen the Voulge (both units were subsequently renamed of course). These new Pikemen preform extremely well against lesser cavalry, and given equal numbers beat every cavalry unit not equipped with a missile weapon. First, they stop the horse with their pike and then slash at the rider with the Voulge. This also makes them somewhat effective shock infantry, and thus more useful in battles in general.

 

[anoddhermit]

Funny title aside, I'm making a troop tree mod and I found two minor fixes to Pikemen that make them viable

One, there's a Tier 5 Vlandian pike that the Pikemen were not using, so I gave them that. Second, I got rid of all weapons from the "Voulgier" except its two handed sword and gave the Pikemen the Voulge (both units were subsequently renamed of course). These new Pikemen preform extremely well against lesser cavalry, and given equal numbers beat every cavalry unit not equipped with a missile weapon. First, they stop the horse with their pike and then slash at the rider with the Voulge. This also makes them somewhat effective shock infantry, and thus more useful in battles in general.

So... why do Khuzaits hate him?

Sounds like mainly this makes him best against... Vlandia.

Not saying it's a bad idea to give pikemen a swinging polearm for taking out cav once they've been stopped via pike though. Falx/Menavlion/Voulgier all are definitely more valuable troops since they are anti-cav and anti-infantry in one unit. Mostly because spears/pikes still aren't particularly great vs. cav - although they're better after the bracing changes.

 

[Big_Guy_4_U]

So... why do Khuzaits hate him?

Sounds like mainly this makes him best against... Vlandia.

Not saying it's a bad idea to give pikemen a swinging polearm for taking out cav once they've been stopped via pike though. Falx/Menavlion/Voulgier all are definitely more valuable troops since they are anti-cav and anti-infantry in one unit. Mostly because spears/pikes still aren't particularly great vs. cav - although they're better after the bracing changes.

Because it's a joke title

 

[HalfMetalJacket]

This sounds goofy wtf is a soldier doing running around with two long a*s sticks?

 

[five bucks]

Nice OP. Glad to see Pikeman get some love.

What if Voulgier kept the voulge and Pikeman got the 2h sword?

 

[Big_Guy_4_U]

Nice OP. Glad to see Pikeman get some love.

What if Voulgier kept the voulge and Pikeman got the 2h sword?

That could work for sure, reason I did it was thematically I thought having a two-handed polearm rather then a sword would fit the pikemen more.

 

[Ananda_The_Destroyer]

But everything but cavalry (unless dismounted) is really good against cavalry, cuz cavalry sucks.

 

[five bucks]

That could work for sure, reason I did it was thematically I thought having a two-handed polearm rather then a sword would fit the pikemen more.

I see where you're coming from. Honestly I wouldn't mind a dedicated 2h swordsman in the Vlandian troop tree.

But everything but cavalry (unless dismounted) is really good against cavalry, cuz cavalry sucks.

+1, with the clarification for those who don't know that you're referring to melee cavalry

 

[Medivhtratos]

Just a thinking, but shouldn't infantry be able to mount up after I dismount the cav? I mean in a world where everybody has a riding skill it should be possible. I mean you also can use cav as infantry so it should be possible to use infantry as cav right?

 

[Kut]

Yes and no. One of them is a rally pilot while the another one is a daily commuter.

 

[Medivhtratos]

Yeah that's OK. But at least it will open options against horse archery. (veteran falxmen on horse). I mean they will get the penalty for low riding skill after all, but they are faster as on feet.

 

[geala]

Funny idea. I would prefer a solution where the pike itself would be useful. I don't like pikemen because for me they don't fit into the timeframe, so I avoid to recruit them and don't have experience with them. But I use spearmen a lot, and the spears are very good weapons (because of the mod Spear Rework), so maybe pikes could be upped similarly (or already are?)?

 

[Big_Guy_4_U]

Nice OP. Glad to see Pikeman get some love.

What if Voulgier kept the voulge and Pikeman got the 2h sword?

So I changed it to the Two-handed sword because the Voulge made the Pikemen better shock infantry then the Voulgier. I could change the stats of the weapons but that would make it incompatible with any combat mods.

 

[Antaeus]

+1, with the clarification for those who don't know that you're referring to melee cavalry

Why would one use pikemen of any sort, when dismounted cataphracts will do nearly as good job, and can then be re-mounted to chase down stragglers?

 

[five bucks]

Why would one use pikemen of any sort, when dismounted cataphracts will do nearly as good job, and can then be re-mounted to chase down stragglers?

You're technically not wrong, but by the same token why would one use cataphracts when Khan's Guard or Fians do a far better job, and can shoot stragglers to death

 

[Antaeus]

You're technically not wrong, but by the same token why would one use cataphracts when Khan's Guard or Fians do a far better job, and can shoot stragglers to death

My sense is that Fians or Khans Guards don't stop a frontal cavalry charge as well as dismounted Cataphracts with braced lance. My feeling is also that Cataphracts don't quite have the same attrition rate that KG or Fians do to enemy fire if they get close enough to shoot.

But mixing the three together in various ways is pretty much impervious, although at this rate, we're going to end up with Ananda's 200 KG party soon.

 

[five bucks]

My sense is that Fians or Khans Guards don't stop a frontal cavalry charge as well as dismounted Cataphracts with braced lance. My feeling is also that Cataphracts don't quite have the same attrition rate that KG or Fians do to enemy fire if they get close enough to shoot.

But mixing the three together in various ways is pretty much impervious, although at this rate, we're going to end up with Ananda's 200 KG party soon.

I do agree that cataphracts shouldn't have braceable polearms, seems a bit silly and takes pikemen's niche. I wonder why the cataphracts don't use the Cataphract Lance.

 

[Big_Guy_4_U]

I do agree that cataphracts shouldn't have braceable polearms, seems a bit silly and takes pikemen's niche. I wonder why the cataphracts don't use the Cataphract Lance.

Another thing I changed in my mod! Would anyone here like to see the new troop trees by the way? Each faction got at least 1 new or changed unit, with the Sturgians getting completely changed in every line except the brigand line.

 

[five bucks]

Another thing I changed in my mod! Would anyone here like to see the new troop trees by the way? Each faction got at least 1 new or changed unit, with the Sturgians getting completely changed in every line except the brigand line.

Go for it!

 

[Antaeus]

I do agree that cataphracts shouldn't have braceable polearms, seems a bit silly and takes pikemen's niche. I wonder why the cataphracts don't use the Cataphract Lance.

They do fill a niche for the Empire... the only real anti-cav infantry hen they're dismounted. And I do like the idea of troops having additional tactical utility when dismounted, otherwise why allow us to dismount them?

I think all cavalry troops should have some purpose dismounted... Khan's guards become Kuzaits only real shock infantry when they're on foot - not quite as good as dedicated shock infantry, but good enough. That's similar to Cataphracts.

Dismounted cav in both those cases take on a role that otherwise is under utilised in those factions.