[Video]: Demo of 1v1 AI problems

[abc123456]

Please see the link above demonstrating issues with the hardest combat AI (Early access beta branch e1.1.0)
Yes, I know the AI is an archer, but if the difficulty is hardest, I expect at least better defense.

Can't even block simple attack. Hardest AI should block 95% of simple attacks. Just by improving ai block success, it would make it significantly more challenging.

 

[k_mitt]

The AI should scale with the tier of the troop, is what I read from patch notes. This is a trained archer? Tier 2 or 3? Thats probably a medium lvl unit.

 

[lostsanctuary]

its an archer using a sword and shield of course its going to be bad

 

[Nickname]

The real problem with AI is that they can't do anything, if you walk around them counterclockwise. This makes tournaments a joke.

 

[barthez4]

Pretty much every troop is trash in 1v1 battle now. The only difference is how many hits it takes to kill them. They take forever to wind up attacks and will run right into your swings. On hardest difficulty I've still won 90% of the tournaments add so far with a 2 Vigor character that has less than 25 in all melee skills. The only time I lost was getting blindsided by a Lance.

That being said I don't want to go back to the Spear and Shield battles that took forever.

 

[LEEKING2005]

The real problem with AI is that they can't do anything, if you walk around them counterclockwise. This makes tournaments a joke.

Yeah I done the same using a single hand spear attack a tier 5-6 units. Every hit only 10-20 damage but wear it down in counterclockwise juke, that's how you cheese an AI.

I'm not sure if it's a bug or because I had much lighter armor compared to him, but if you played "Fire and sword" and Warband you should know mobility is very powerful not only in single player but also multiplayer.

That's exactly what the naked two hand sword guy want to tell you, just you guys never paying any attentions. Juking is better than parry.

 

[abc123456]

The AI should scale with the tier of the troop, is what I read from patch notes. This is a trained archer? Tier 2 or 3? Thats probably a medium lvl unit.

its an archer using a sword and shield of course its going to be bad

I knew some of you would say it is an archer. Look, I did the video before realising it was an archer, but every single troop is pretty crappy at 1v1. Yea, they may become a bit better but not dramatically.
If you really want, I can make a video with a high tier melee lord or unit and the result would be the same.

One big problem is AI can't even block simple non-feint attacks consistently. In warband, I had AI that could block 95% of my attacks.

Please at least fix that first.

 

[eddiemccandless]

The real problem with AI is that they can't do anything, if you walk around them counterclockwise. This makes tournaments a joke.

I am pretty sure that they were trying to address this, and the failed attempt to do that is what caused this new AI that can't even really block with a shield.

Honestly? Running around counterclockwise is cheesing the game imo. I think there are more pressing issue to be addressed in single player right now. Just give us back the old AI and focus on fixing other bugs.

 

[LEEKING2005]

I am pretty sure that they were trying to address this, and the failed attempt to do that is what caused this new AI that can't even really block with a shield.

Honestly? Running around counterclockwise is cheesing the game imo. I think there are more pressing issue to be addressed in single player right now. Just give us back the old AI and focus on fixing other bugs.

But you didn't say the same when the two handed naked guy doing the same, he just use his mobility to evades many thrown stones and using his mobility to line them in a narrow line.

The same mobility that can evade archers AI countless time given you are not 1 vs 50.

 

[eddiemccandless]

But you didn't say the same when the two handed naked guy doing the same, he just use his mobility to evades many thrown stones and using his mobility to line them in a narrow line.

The same mobility that can evade archers AI countless time given you are not 1 vs 50.

So are you suggesting that we should change AI so that two handed naked guy is no more? Come on man. Is this really the most important thing to address in this game right now?

 

[LEEKING2005]

So are you suggesting that we should change AI so that two handed naked guy is no more? Come on man. Is this really the most important thing to address in this game right now?

Not really, I'm suggesting it's not unreasonable that in 1v1 situation that lighter armor can had some advantage, it's called risk and reward system. It's not like you can use your 1v1 to conquered the Calradia anyway.

As I already state in my previous post, mobility is very powerful both in game and in reality (The heavy armor SHOULD have slower turn rate, reflexes, swing speed and movespeed), single player and multiplayers. If the game want to nerf this feature for balance I don't object, I will just change to heavier armor just like other RPG then.

 

[eddiemccandless]

Not really, I'm suggesting it's not unreasonable that in 1v1 situation that lighter armor can had some advantage, it's called risk and reward system. It's not like you can use your 1v1 to conquered the Calradia anyway.

As I already state in my previous post, mobility is very powerful both in game and in reality(The heavy armor SHOULD have slower turn rate), single player and multiplayers. If the game want to nerf this feature for balance I don't object, I will just change to heavier armor just like other RPG then.

Right, I agree on this. To be fair, the circling counterclockwise works also if you are in heavy armor, and guarantees a win against any opponent 1v1, from what I have been reading. That is what I consider cheesing the game myself. I just think it's not a big deal myself. If a player feels that it ruins their experience they don't have to do it, it is a very specific trick that you definitely can not do on accident.

To bring an example from an old game: in the original Baldur's Gate you could enter a building while being hidden as a thief, backstab enemies, then run out and they would not follow you. So you could just do this over and over and over and it would make all fights trivial. This didn't stop Baldur's Gate from being one of the best rpgs of its time. You could still play the game just fine and enjoy it a great deal as long as you didn't cheese it.

 

[LEEKING2005]

Right, I agree on this. To be fair, the circling counterclockwise works also if you are in heavy armor, and guarantees a win against any opponent 1v1, from what I have been reading. That is what I consider cheesing the game myself. I just think it's not a big deal myself. If a player feels that it ruins their experience they don't have to do it, it is a very specific trick that you definitely can not do on accident.

To bring an example from an old game: in the original Baldur's Gate you could enter a building while being hidden as a thief, backstab enemies, then run out and they would not follow you. So you could just do this over and over and over and it would make all fights trivial. This didn't stop Baldur's Gate from being one of the best rpgs of its time. You could still play the game just fine and enjoy it a great deal as long as you didn't cheese it.

Haha, but I had to do that to win cause my currently level in single hand, two hand and polarm is 7,5,5 (and my vigor is 2) XD. There is no way I can win a heavy armor units. Also that is the 1st time I've join tournament and using close combat weapon in Bannerlord. (I join because I see a rare horse that I need in my horse archery)

I just know it work because the same thing work in Warband.

Btw it's not just the AI issue, I found it's very useful also in Multiplayers' captain mode where if you instruct your troop attack from their left and you go to their right attack you can kill anyone (with or without shield), especially you don't seem to slowed down if you shield up in Multiplayer. Mobility is too OP, both in singleplayer and multiplayer. With the nerf of riding, archer, shield breaking ability, the shield + spear unit is very Op in Multiplayers.

I never fell guilty about using that though, cause tournament probably same as looters, our favorite punching bag.

 

[Niomedes]

My main issue is that AI never seems to shieldbash or Kick.

 

[Nickname]

Honestly? Running around counterclockwise is cheesing the game imo. I think there are more pressing issue to be addressed in single player right now. Just give us back the old AI and focus on fixing other bugs.

I agree it's not a big issue, but on the other hand, to me it looks like a very easy fix. There is no need to "focus" the whole team on it, like you think. It will took 10-20 minutes of work for a one guy. I know what I'm talking about because I work as AI programmer in another studio (since 2005).

 

[eddiemccandless]

I agree it's not a big issue, but on the other hand, to me it looks like a very easy fix. There is no need to "focus" the whole team on it, like you think. It will took 10-20 minutes of work for a one guy. I know what I'm talking about because I work as AI programmer in another studio (since 2005).

If you really are a programmer you know very well that when it comes to writing code there is nothing that will take "10-20 minutes of work" for one guy. Come on now, let's be real.

 

[Nickname]

If you really are a programmer you know very well that when it comes to writing code there is nothing that will take "10-20 minutes of work" for one guy. Come on now, let's be real.

What I you talking about? Most of fixes are change a couple of numbers in configs or add a couple of lines in code.. Example: AI weapon selection was bugged, and they never switched weapons. I just rewrote the whole logic from scratch, took literally 15 minutes

Of course, there are situations, when the whole system is to be refactored. In that case, you don't want to fix bugs in the current system, you want to fully focus on a new one, and it could take months. I doubt they work on completely new AI, but who knows..

 

[eddiemccandless]

What I you talking about? Most of fixes are change a couple of numbers in configs or add a couple of lines in code.. Example: AI weapon selection was bugged, and they never switched weapons. I just rewrote the whole logic from scratch, took literally 15 minutes

Of course, there are situations, when the whole system is to be refactored. In that case, you don't want to fix bugs in the current system, you want to fully focus on a new one, and it could take months. I doubt they work on completely new AI, but who knows..

Right, but I am referring to fixes to counter the player circling around the AI. That is what you were talking about in your original post, not weapon switches.

 

[Nickname]

Right, but I am referring to fixes to counter the player circling around the AI. That is what you were talking about in your original post, not weapon switches.

It was just an example, to illustrate that you are wrong. As for the circling of bannerlord AI, my guess is that happens because their enemy direction check period is too low. Most likely, they realign with target too rarely, for optimization reasons. And to fix this you need to change a single line in code, add a modifier to this value, so it depends on a size of a battle. Just a guess, there could be other reasons, but anyway, nothing hard to fix.

 

[eddiemccandless]

It was just an example, to illustrate that you are wrong. As for the circling of bannerlord AI, my guess is that happens because their enemy direction check period is too low. Most likely, they realign with target too rarely, for optimization reasons. And to fix this you need to change a single line in code, add a modifier to this value, so it depends on a size of a battle. Just a guess, there could be other reasons, but anyway, nothing hard to fix.

Well if it's that easy I am sure the devs will fix it in no time! I just know, based on my own experience, that things are rarely as easy as you think when it comes to fixing complex systems. But since neither you nor I are part of the developement team we shall have to agree to disagree and see what they come up with.