Veagir Elephants and Khergit Camels!

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Fei Dao said:
@Spanish Broomaker - None of your links mention anything about elephants being regularly used in armies anywhere in Europe - The only examples are as extravagant exotic pets owned by rich lords.


It is perfectly fair to place Calradia in Europe - The factions use distinctly European gear. The Khergits look distinctly like Mongols, which did reach Europe.

Calradia may be fiction, but you don't just add in elements that clearly don't belong.

Enough said on the matter I think.
 
Looking back at the previous pages, I lol'd when someone said elephants would raise morale.

Marnid climbs onto elephant trunk.
Marnid: THIS IS FUN!

Or...

Elephant becomes sick.
Elephant has a case of diarrhea.
Marnid is caught in the blast.
Marnid vomits.
Nord Huscarl laughs.
 
Fei Dao said:
@Spanish Broomaker - None of your links mention anything about elephants being regularly used in armies anywhere in Europe - The only examples are as extravagant exotic pets owned by rich lords.


It is perfectly fair to place Calradia in Europe - The factions use distinctly European gear. The Khergits look distinctly like Mongols, which did reach Europe.


Calradia may be fiction, but you don't just add in elements that clearly don't belong.

Exactly like I said. :smile:

 
EasyCo506 said:
You have my support.

Bring on the nuke shooting tanks that fly!

:lol:
Yes that would be legit, but do you want to expand the game from the year 1258 to 3604?  :lol:

EasyCo506 said:
Spanish_Broomaker said:
I suggested that you should be able to rebel against kings and even overthrow them, people said that was not real and that it was ridiculous, people said I was nuts.  Yet overthrowing kings is in the game.
What does that have to do with elephants and camels? In fact, it wasn't even added in.

You wanted to overthrow the king so that the player could become king. Which you can't, sorry to say. And plus, the entire post rambled on and went to having your own kingdom, to hunting for food (with half of what you were suggesting being suggested before, many many times).

So that doesn't help you. At all.

If you read my posts, I said that at least I wanted the ability to rebel and overthrow the king, you can overthrow the king since version .950 by joining a claimant to the throne (I do not refer to exploits or cheats).
At most I wanted to be able to become king.

Fei Dao said:
@Spanish Broomaker - None of your links mention anything about elephants being regularly used in armies anywhere in Europe - The only examples are as extravagant exotic pets owned by rich lords.

Isn't that what I wanted to point out?
I said the elephants were mostly used in the orient and middle-east.

Fei Dao said:
It is perfectly fair to place Calradia in Europe - The factions use distinctly European gear. The Khergits look distinctly like Mongols, which did reach Europe.

Exactly, Khergits are the closest we get to the Middle East, that is why I suggested camels for them (after all the snowy Tibet has camels!).

Fei Dao said:
Calradia may be fiction, but you don't just add in elements that clearly don't belong.

I like that you don't go on saying it isn't historical, yes I agree with you, M&B should remain semi-historical fiction, for this reason I don't support a martian invasion for M&B. :lol:  But, why can't we say that (same as the Nords) an India/Turk faction came in over the mountains and they have the camels and elephants.  There is nothing wrong with the ideas, the fact, I think, is that some of you just don't want elephants.  Just come clean and say so.

Triosta said:
Looking back at the previous pages, I lol'd when someone said elephants would raise morale.

Marnid climbs onto elephant trunk.
Marnid: THIS IS FUN!

Or...

Elephant becomes sick.
Elephant has a case of diarrhea.
Marnid is caught in the blast.
Marnid vomits.
Nord Huscarl laughs.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

I said they would raise morale, even though your example is amusing, I meant that elephants in places in Asia are used for transportation, and maybe these elephants in M&B can help carry equipment and supplies so that way the troops can travel more lightly and that would raise morale!
 
I'm sorry, I just still don't see elephants as being a good battle tactic. Sure, they're big, but not BIG as in the beast that Legolas took down in the lord of the rings. And Gimli said "That still counts as one!"

Elephants would probably be 3 times the cost of a spirited charger because of its rarity due to widely varied climate that Calradia has, and still be as easily killed as a saddle horse. If not even more so, with the much larger hit box. Instead of squeaking through a narrow gap in sea raiders and a single axe grazing your horse, there'd be multiple axes in your elephant. Projectiles would also NEVER MISS, because it's so big.

I know what you're thinking. "If the player wants to be stupid and bring a giant bullseye mount to battle he can.", but that's generally wrong.

Imagine how the factions would feel about elephants. Nords and Rhodoks are already out of the question, because their troops don't use horses. Khergits wouldn't want them either, because they're too slow and too big. This leaves Swadians and Vaegirs. A swadian knight would not be caught dead on an elephant, because then their weapons would be unusable. Now, this leaves only the vaegirs, who live in the snow. So who would use these elephants? The knights? then their weapons are useless. The marksmen? Then you've got 10 marksmen, one of them on an elephant. Does that make sense?

So, how many merchants do you think would breed and sell elephants when the only person who would consider them a mount for combat is the player himself?
 
Fei Dao said:
Calradia may be fiction, but you don't just add in elements that clearly don't belong.
I'd say things like machine guns and motorcycles are elements that clearly don't belong. When did fiction get so restrictive that animals that had been used in wars are not even to be considered for inclusion? Good God people. It's a game and it's set in a fictional world. Certainly you can make some allowances for new armor styles, weapons and other fun things?
 
Rundstedt75 said:
Fei Dao said:
Calradia may be fiction, but you don't just add in elements that clearly don't belong.
I'd say things like machine guns and motorcycles are elements that clearly don't belong. When did fiction get so restrictive that animals that had been used in wars are not even to be considered for inclusion? Good God people. It's a game and it's set in a fictional world. Certainly you can make some allowances for new armor styles, weapons and other fun things?
Then we can also add magic to our ficticious medieval setting! And wenchs that you can bang for health, and dying permenantly, and real time jailing, and elven mail! And Elven Sabers! And Saber tooth tigers! As everyone knows they did exist, just not in the same exact time period. we can also add cannons and hand cannons to render the player helpless with a 1 hit KO every time. Then muskets (Grande espado had em along with axes and swords) Anything else I forgot to add to your "Pipe Dream" list?
 
DamienZharkoff said:
Rundstedt75 said:
Fei Dao said:
Calradia may be fiction, but you don't just add in elements that clearly don't belong.
I'd say things like machine guns and motorcycles are elements that clearly don't belong. When did fiction get so restrictive that animals that had been used in wars are not even to be considered for inclusion? Good God people. It's a game and it's set in a fictional world. Certainly you can make some allowances for new armor styles, weapons and other fun things?
Then we can also add magic to our ficticious medieval setting! And wenchs that you can bang for health, and dying permenantly, and real time jailing, and elven mail! And Elven Sabers! And Saber tooth tigers! As everyone knows they did exist, just not in the same exact time period. we can also add cannons and hand cannons to render the player helpless with a 1 hit KO every time. Then muskets (Grande espado had em along with axes and swords) Anything else I forgot to add to your "Pipe Dream" list?

Have elephants been used in military campaigns IRL? Has magic (or saber tooth tigers) been used in military campaigns IRL? See the difference now?

Also, armor is only cosmetic if you don't like the appearance of it then you wouldn't have to use it. I really don't see anything wrong with adding a little more variety to the armor sets. And no, I don't mean armor emblazoned with "seven stars and seven stones and one white tree."

Edit:
As for hand cannons etc, if you made them take a minute or whatever to reload and be wildly inaccurate then I'd be ok with them being added in. :razz:

And for sure dragons = elephants.
 
Triosta said:
DamienZharkoff said:
Anything else I forgot to add to your "Pipe Dream" list?

You forgot dragons.

That is a very good point.  Dragons, pirates, and ninjas must be incorporated before release.  Or else...  let's face it, who would take the game seriously?

As for elephants, I had a dream about an elephant last night.  I was scratching behind her ear and she kind of grabbed my hand with her trunk.  It was very cute.  However!  Cute actions involving elephants do not belong in a wargame!  What could be more sad than a cute elephanty-wanty loyally charging into some swordsmen and getting its trunk cut off?  Nothing, that's what.  If you want to molest elephants, go mod them in yourself.
 
Rundstedt75 said:
Have elephants been used in military campaigns IRL?

Yes they have. However the climate was africa-asia. Think wars inside the lion king kind of world, with tribal warriors.
 
I elephants are put in, then I get to ride on that flying dog from The Neverending Story.

It'd look something like this:
nes1cd.jpg

Only armed with a spear and shield.
 
Rundstedt75 said:
Looks like you guys addicted to smart arguments and strong points but little do you know I can google up fancy terms.
or the fact Calradia is more based off of EUROPE in the more NORTHERN HEMISPHERE where theres SNOW and NO GOOD FOOD SUPPLY for ELEPHANTS! or that camels CANNOT RUN ON STONES BECAUSE OF THEIR PADS IN PLACE OF HOOVES!

(fixed your statement to be more honest)
 
Slippery slope and straw man are pretty standard terms when learning about logic / proof and argumentation.

But yeah.  No elephants.  Or camels.  That's just silly.

Cheers.
 
I have difficulty deciding whether this is for real or completely insane.
Any evidence (if at all) points towards the Vaegirs being from Eastern Europe, whereas the Khergits appear to be based on the Mongolian Empire, both areas of which are far far away from the Middle East.
 
DamienZharkoff said:
Rundstedt75 said:
Looks like you guys addicted to smart arguments and strong points but little do you know I can google up fancy terms.
or the fact Calradia is more based off of EUROPE in the more NORTHERN HEMISPHERE where theres SNOW and NO GOOD FOOD SUPPLY for ELEPHANTS! or that camels CANNOT RUN ON STONES BECAUSE OF THEIR PADS IN PLACE OF HOOVES!

(fixed your statement to be more honest)
Yeah I definitely have to "google up" a couple of the most common logical fallacies that anyone can learn about in a freshman level logic course.

My favorite part was when you didn't address my other post at all. Point is a lot of fun things (that wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility in the real world) are dismissed out of hand because loud-mouthed history freaks go around raging about how it's not realistic. It's not all about elephants and camels.

Adding in a few new styles of armor, weapons, 3 (or more) way battles (I guess it's a law of physics that if two groups are fighting you can't go attack them both), the option to (probably completely ineffectively) dual-wield (cause it's physically impossible to carry an axe in each hand amitire?) and other potentially fun stuff is not like adding dragons, health potions (like you would need them, people recover from deaths door step in a couple days) and magic. This is a game guys, set in a fictitious world. Not everyone who buys the game will subscribe to your (restrictive) pov.

(I like parentheses)
 
then they don't need to play it then lol

Now onto your other BS. I adressed your other post, but you need to learn to read. I joked with the google term and called you an idiot, but that became lost in your stupidity to try and start changing how you phrase things completely (I personally find that an adorable attempt at sounding smart) So if you read, we are TRYING TO KEEP THIS GAME TO A THEME. Alot of people like the chuck norris in oblivion, and master chief in oblivion mod. Does that mean they should've put it in game? NO! That would ruin the theme (and get them sued)If you are going through the swamps near leyawin, and you see a damsel in expensive attire, speaking like a normal every day citizen, wouldn't that kinda ruin the whole feel of the swamp?
 
war elephants were a historic mount, but we are talking Persians here, not Romans, and definitely not medieval. Furthermore, I do not believe elephants were too effective in their time, and with medieval steel...


Khergit camels? It would be a possibility...if they didn't live in the mountains and steppe.
 
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