SP Dark Ages VC Balance Mod (saved game compatible)

Tingyun

Knight at Arms
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Thanks Plasquar, agreed, it was very nice of them. The VC dev team has always seemed to be a really great group in general (among other things, not many teams would continue supporting a game with new patches this long after release).
 

Hijodeleon

Recruit
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Regards.

On the first page of this Mod discussion, the balance of projectile troops was discussed.

The doubt of the good balance arose specifically in the troop of archers and they are compared with those of javelins. it was not even mentioned the slingers or stone shooters, although these are the first troops we obtain and with which we must win battles. It could be because they seem less important.

Tingyun responded very well to this question (in my opinion).

Although I am not an expert on the subject of modification, I consider that the projectile troops are very well balanced in everything related to them and I am really surprised how well they are balanced.

I consider that the use of these troops is essential in a stage of the game in which you do not have an army of elite troops, but that does not mean that it is an unusable army for it.

In VC basically the combat is not necessarily defined by the quality of the troops because the good use of inexperienced troops can lead to victory if the other factors that influence the battle are taken into account.

In this video we can see that neither the quality of the troops, nor that of the player's character, nor that of the player himself defined an overwhelming victory. If you want to see it.

With the good use of the land, the good use of the projectiles taking care of their quantity and quality, the maneuvers of the player (provocation, waste of enemy projectiles, positioning of the enemy army in combat), the formation and the orders given to the army not only Victory was achieved but also no casualties, although the enemy army was superior in quality.

In a frontal confrontation the enemy army would have devastated the player's army by the quality of its troops causing a total loss, although this one was superior in number. But it did not happen that way and it was very far from this thanks to the projectile troops, a combination of javelins, archers and mostly not even slingers but stone throwers, but above all: the good balance of the Mod.


 

Tingyun

Knight at Arms
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Hi Hijodeleon, thanks for posting your detailed feedback and video. Apologies that it took me this long to reply, just busy with work at Hooded Horse and I lost track of this message until now.
 

Muirhied

Recruit
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Hi there Tinyun. I'm currently wondering if Multiplayer for this mod would work out of the box if everyone was using the same version of it? I'm thinking if it works I could mod the multiplayer faction weapon slots so it can balance the gameplay and use some of the new weapons (or updated ones) you made. I currently have the resources to test the first idea out to see if your mod would run with multiplayer. I'm checking with you to make sure i'm not banging my head against the wall for a week.
Thanks,
- Muirhied
 
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Tingyun

Knight at Arms
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Hi Muirhied,

Nice to see you again here, hope you've been well!

I think multiplayer should work, as I didn't do anything that I'd expect could break it. But I haven't tested it myself.

If you do end up making such multiplayer modifications, I'd be glad to integrate them into Balance Mod for a future release if you'd like, and host a multiplayer patch before then.

Tim
 

Brujoloco

Sergeant
M&BWF&SWBNWVC
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Totally in love with this mod for VC! Decided to start a new playthrough after some years of being on a break to try it and been having a blast so far.

Completely love you can now begin building shrines to odin on villages and cities you dont own to begin the conversion.

So I have some questions, how long will a pictish town, fully 100% christian begin to see a shift in the villagers towards paganism? how many days? After about two months I am still not tolerated in scotland at all.

Also is there a way to turn Pictish troops into pagans? For RP and Morale purposes? If not within the game, what needs to be edited or tweaked to turn them Pagan? Same with companions within a party? Would love to see an option to turn lords religion applied to companions as well.

I know companions when turned into vassals switch religions sometimes, but wondering if the conversion topic can be applied to the dialogue when they are in your party.

All in all a very good mod! :smile:
 

Tingyun

Knight at Arms
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Totally in love with this mod for VC! Decided to start a new playthrough after some years of being on a break to try it and been having a blast so far.
Thanks Brujoloco! I very much enjoyed playing Brytenwalda using your Repolished mod, so I'm honored you liked my mod as well!

So I have some questions, how long will a pictish town, fully 100% christian begin to see a shift in the villagers towards paganism? how many days? After about two months I am still not tolerated in scotland at all.
It is very random, so hard to predict. But by making the shrine, you have tilted the balance and it will eventually go pagan (provided that you have also built the building that protects the shrine from riots--I think that's the mead hall in villages and the prison tower in towns, but the in-game descriptions of the buildings will identify this--always build the protective building as well or the riots will eventually cause the destruction of the shrine).

It is possible that the religion of the town has already shifted considerably towards paganism though--religion is on a 100 point scale in VC, while there are only a limited number of text narrative descriptions that describe a range of numbers (say, a given statement like "pagans are ____ here" might be used for anywhere between 20 to 40 for example). So you could have already shifted religion significantly on that 100 point scale without seeing a different text description.

Also is there a way to turn Pictish troops into pagans? For RP and Morale purposes? If not within the game, what needs to be edited or tweaked to turn them Pagan? Same with companions within a party? Would love to see an option to turn lords religion applied to companions as well.
Religion of troops unfortunately cannot be changed in game. I can't actually remember which file it is stored in--I think I remember that companion religion is defined in module_scripts.py, but it might be there or in another file, not sure. I also can't rememeber the details of companion religion changing.

If you wanted to change this in a current campaign though, as part of a roleplaying story rather than modding it from game start, you should use one of the warband saved game editors. I imagine it would be pretty easy to look up the pict troops and individually switch them from christian to pagan in the editor. Of course this would affect all instances of them, but that's the only way to do it anyway. You could do the same for companions.
 

Brujoloco

Sergeant
M&BWF&SWBNWVC
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Thanks Brujoloco! I very much enjoyed playing Brytenwalda using your Repolished mod, so I'm honored you liked my mod as well!
Haha, glad you liked my old Repolished Mod, it was a fun project for me, hence when I came back to Warband after a long hiatus and promptly discovered Rebalance and saw it already on version 12 was "I HAVE TO TRY THIS YAY" and it has been super fun! Keep updating it, it truly is quite well thought out. :smile:

If you wanted to change this in a current campaign though, as part of a roleplaying story rather than modding it from game start, you should use one of the warband saved game editors. I imagine it would be pretty easy to look up the pict troops and individually switch them from christian to pagan in the editor. Of course this would affect all instances of them, but that's the only way to do it anyway. You could do the same for companions.
Ahhh thanks for the explanation, yes, been spending quite some few Ks of Scillingas on building shrines and then schools and eventually mead halls ... So was more or less doing it correctly.

And yep, I will have to use the save game editor ... I really enjoy the RP playthroughs when you try to "Paganize" England.

As a new question is there a way to lessen the penalties of Monastery burnings on surrounding cities/villages that are pagan? Or case in point: Dubh Lin and its Two Villages"Leixhaulp" and "Hofud" every time I go burn Gleann da Loch and Finian , though Finian only lowers the villages.

I lose a ton of Dubh Lin and adjoining villages faction by burning the nearby monastery every few months, which is odd considering that particular town and the villages are predominantly pagan. People all over Ireland hate my guts and that is quite ok, but seeing Dubh Lin hate me for burning monasteries as I sell my slaves there is a bit ... odd.

To be honest I have zero qualms with being hated to the bone by all of England, Scotland and even Friese for burning the monasteries there, but Dubh Lin is a bit of a sore spot for me, so wondering if the nearby monastery can either give less penalties to faction to the two villages and the town or remove it altogether?

There is also a historical context for this request to remove the penalties, as Dublin was pretty much hardcore pagan surrounded by Christian Kingdoms and it was not until the year 1000 that the Burning of Thor Wood by the Irish happened, and by that time frame Dublin already had at least two generations of Christian Norsemen, but in the game current year, no burning of any monastery nearby should give that kind of penalty. By 876 for example there is a well documented case of the Ring of Thor used as a symbol of Oath Keeping/Binding by Viking Kings to King Alfred. The Sword of Carlus being the other classical symbol of the City which I love in real life and pretty "Pagan".

As a side note look into the life of Tomrair : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomrair , Dublin features there prominently

On the topic at hand It is not logical for Dubh Lin at least to lose faction, and the villages while debatable, should be exempt as well, I think :wink:

No monastery sacking should ever give a penalty to Dublin and the two adjoining villages, so wonder if it could be possible to remove the penalty for raiding Glean Da Loch and Finian. Finian being so far to the west still hits Leixhaulp and Hofud, which is also odd to me.

Wonder how the penalty to faction works when raiding, is it an specific area automatically tagging everything nearby or is it a tick of selected cities and villages near to the monastery? If the first perhaps it could be lowered? If the last can Dublin and the two villages be unticked? Just wondering.

Again just a suggestion for the sake of RP haha, but something I believe should not be there, but again I understand if it is too deeply within the Base Code or not of your interest to fix, I know how annoying "fixing" things in Warband can be.

All in all a big hug to you my friend! Enjoying your mod immensely! I am actually loving the slower speeds on sea and land, making me stick to certain areas of operation and releasing me of the always choosing skeids over all other ships just for the need of speed.

Cheers!🤗
 

Tingyun

Knight at Arms
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Hi Brujoloco,

You can certainly mod the monastery penalty--I can't remember exactly which file controls it, but maybe module_scripts.py, if not check the other files and you'll find it soon enough.

You make some great points, though I do tend to think there is a strong argument for the current effects.

The norse were relatively recent arrivals at this point, and native gaelic peoples had settled in the area of Dubh Lin for thousands of years. Archeological records indicate the town of Dubh Lin as modeled by VC encompasses two towns:

"It is now thought that the Viking settlement was preceded by a Christian ecclesiastical settlement known as Duiblinn, from which Dyflin took its name. Beginning in the 9th and 10th century, there were two settlements where the modern city stands. The Viking settlement of about 841 was known as Dyflin, from the Irish Duiblinn (or "Black Pool", referring to a dark tidal pool where the River Poddle entered the Liffey on the site of the Castle Gardens at the rear of Dublin Castle), and a Gaelic settlement, Áth Cliath ("ford of hurdles") was further upriver, at the present day Father Mathew Bridge at the bottom of Church Street.[1] The Celtic settlement's name is still used as the Irish name of the modern city, though the first written evidence of it is found in the Annals of Ulster of 1368.[2] The modern English name came from the Viking settlement of Dyflin, which derived its name from the Irish Duiblinn." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Dublin#Founding_and_early_history

The villages, representing more rural peoples, were likely in large part christian at this time, at least more so than the town. In general Balance Mod has defined religion levels for each settlement, generally following the theory that Norse penetration into the British isles would not yet have become mass immigration of settlers and farmers (though a few villages are modeled as such to reflect the possibility of some of that). Accordingly, most villages under Norse control are heavily christian, reflecting conquered peoples, while the castles are more heavily Norse, reflecting greater penetration into areas dominated by military seats of power, and the towns are done case by case based on their history, with many having a large Christian element ruled by a Norse conquering elite.

As for the faction relation loss, it largely reflects the same idea as why the Jarl in the storyline in Frisia wants you to play nice with the local monastery. Norse kings are worried about upsetting their Christian population, even in places where norse might be dominant.

There's also the old conflict between Norse kings interested in centralizing power and the more unstable elements of society, vikings and such--Harald Fairhair of course is the greatest example in that conflict, but in general, I'd expect most Norse kings to be very unhappy with anyone going viking in the vicinity of their territory. Even where they might tolerate it or even reward it, they will not want that unstable influence operating in their backyard. Moreover, it's likely they have at least some dealings with the local monasteries (else why haven't they themselves burned and robbed them), or are afraid that the actions you take might be perceived as their responsibility by some Christian kingdoms nearby (as even when warring with one or several, they probably are trying to have at least passable relations with a few).

Anyway, that's the reason it still works that way--though you are of course welcome to disagree and mod it to whatever best fits your own view of how it should work. Ultimately, it's all guesses about a period of time when we don't have great historical records.

Great to hear you are enjoying the realistic speeds--encouraging a more local base of operations and making the world feel larger was certainly the goal!
 

Vikingur

Sergeant at Arms
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And yep, I will have to use the save game editor ... I really enjoy the RP playthroughs when you try to "Paganize" England.

As a new question is there a way to lessen the penalties of Monastery burnings on surrounding cities/villages that are pagan? Or case in point: Dubh Lin and its Two Villages"Leixhaulp" and "Hofud" every time I go burn Gleann da Loch and Finian , though Finian only lowers the villages.
So one of the first things I did when I finally got my hands on the module source, was to start fixing exactly that. In the beginning, I basically just copied and pasted alot of the code that has to do with your Refuge. Adding a menu option on the “Leave” menu page(after its been plundered) to remove/demolish the Monastery. I’ve no idea where the radius for Monastery’s and Hofs are stored in the text. easiest way is to just used that Save Game Editor and move the Monastery’s location.
 
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@Tingyun hi! How are u doing?
Sorry for off-topic, but as an experienced modder perhaps you know how I can change shield's back color? What file do I have to work with? I want to create custom banner on "extra" banner's basis, but so far I only managed to change the "face" of the shields, and both banners (extra#, extra#a, extra#b) Thanks in advance!

P.S. Since u have enhanced Norse troop tree so much, what do u think about implementing norse women troop tree either?
 
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Vikingur

Sergeant at Arms
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@Tingyun hi! How are u doing?
Sorry for off-topic, but as an experienced modder perhaps you know how I can change shield's back color? What file do I have to work with? I want to create custom banner on "extra" banner's basis, but so far I only managed to change the "face" of the shields, and both banners (extra#, extra#a, extra#b) Thanks in advance!

P.S. Since u have enhanced Norse troop tree so much, what do u think about implementing norse women troop tree either?
IMHO, it’s kind of a pain to edit Vanillia VC shields. Several texture and material files, then there is the vertex colouring...etc. It’s much easier just to create your own from scratch and add them into the game. BRF edit is just an amazing tool, and it can do so much by itself. If you’d like some step by step, PM me. I’ll do my best to help.
 

Tierre

Recruit
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There are some issues with the mod:
- The "manage" option is enabled in any settlement regardless of whether you are the owner of a settlement or not - you can build improvements even in enemy settlements.
- When you talking with some NPCs (wives of lords), an option to change their equipment appeared. And you can undress them...
- Feasts organized by the Lords last only 1 day. You can catch them only if you are very close and the other lords do not have time to arrive at the feast.
- Since the armor was reduced due to the nerf of Orm’s armor and gloves, and weapons, especially throwing spears, were significantly strengthened, any hit of a throwing spear guaranteed to kill the player. However - it is easily treated by returning the item_kinds1 file from the native, or transferring the armor and throw_spear parameters from the native item_kinds1 file to the mod file.
- Why did you nerf camp defenders? They are harder to get than any other archers in the game. At the same time, they were the second most powerful archers in the game - approximately on a par with the Breton archers. Why was it necessary to make slingers out of them, reducing their effectiveness to the level of peasants?
 

Tingyun

Knight at Arms
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@Tingyun hi! How are u doing?
Good to hear from you! Sorry for the late reply, been sick lately, aside from being swamped with work for Hooded Horse. Excited about stuff happening there though, should have some announcements soon.

I think Vikingur already provided the help you need, thanks Vikingur!

P.S. Since u have enhanced Norse troop tree so much, what do u think about implementing norse women troop tree either?
I'm afraid adding units would break saved game compatibility, hence why I haven't done so (instead only repurposing old units). I'd support and help any submod that wanted to explore this though.
 

Tingyun

Knight at Arms
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There are some issues with the mod:
- The "manage" option is enabled in any settlement regardless of whether you are the owner of a settlement or not - you can build improvements even in enemy settlements.
This is intended, and noted at the top of the mod description:

"IMPORTANT NOTE 2: As of 9.0, the player has the option to manage any settlement, which allows you to finance temples for conversion (though in opposite religion fiefs they might be destroyed by riots), or to finance the construction of buildings to help out other lords of your kingdom."

This isn't open to any abuse, so basically every player can use it to whatever extent enhances their roleplaying and intended goals. It's in some ways a workaround for the fact that AI lords don't ever construct anything, as well as part of what enables religious conversion to occur (which is very slow, but possible for those that wish to attempt).

- When you talking with some NPCs (wives of lords), an option to change their equipment appeared. And you can undress them...
The option is there for roleplaying, to allow you to give gifts (including, if you choose, decking them out with armor and a sword). I had removed the option in 3.1, after a couple players didn't like it, but then an overwhelming number of players complained about the removal, and so it was restored in 4.0. Don't do silly things with the option, unless you want to (I'm a big believer in player freedom). Worth noting this isn't abusable--they don't have valuable equipment.

- Feasts organized by the Lords last only 1 day. You can catch them only if you are very close and the other lords do not have time to arrive at the feast.
Feasts last as long as in vanilla VC, and will go for several days unless something disrupts things. With the default realistic travel speeds, it isn't practical to catch a feast in Ireland if you are currently in Denmark, but the intent of that version is to keep a more local feel, so that the world itself feels more epic--you can catch feasts in the region you are in.

- Since the armor was reduced due to the nerf of Orm’s armor and gloves, and weapons, especially throwing spears, were significantly strengthened, any hit of a throwing spear guaranteed to kill the player. However - it is easily treated by returning the item_kinds1 file from the native, or transferring the armor and throw_spear parameters from the native item_kinds1 file to the mod file.
I support players editing things to however they like, so it's good you figured out how to remove a change that bothers you.

For the published version, the intent of Balance Mod that the playing field be leveled between player and npc armor (ie by removing quality modifiers to gloves and nerfing the overpowered player-only Orm's armor) and instead have the player rely on greater skill to win against NPC opponents. There are still plenty of opportunities to gain moderatly better equipment than any NPC can get (as NPCs don't get quality enhancments on armor or weapons, and the player can get the powerful unique swords), but if the player wants to have an overpowered resilience compared to NPCs they can just turn on the 1/2 damage option. Throwing spears have higher damage because of their other disadvantages--slow speed, low ammo, and low range. They are easy for the player to avoid or block, and a good damage rating is both immersive and good balance for the troops (since so many fall harmlessly short).

- Why did you nerf camp defenders? They are harder to get than any other archers in the game. At the same time, they were the second most powerful archers in the game - approximately on a par with the Breton archers. Why was it necessary to make slingers out of them, reducing their effectiveness to the level of peasants?
The Balance Mod Camp Defender is a far stronger unit than the vanilla VC Camp Defender.

The Balance Mod Camp Defender has a military sling, one of the best ranged weapons in the game, not a normal sling. She also has a good quality melee weapon (broad or langseax, axe, or sword). She has a good shield, armor, helm, and gloves. She has a 170 WP in slings, and a 160 WP in melee.

This is a versatile warrior filling a dual role similar to the Norse Warrior Archer, but with the advantages of the military sling, making it a unique role in the army.

Now, let's compare her to the vanilla VC Camp Defender. A normal longbow. No armor (tunic and a veil). A club or wooden stick for a melee weapon. No shield. A measly 125 WP in archery.

That is a terrible unit in comparison. And you have to upgade 4 times to get this unit, that basically matches something that you can get in 2 upgrades in the male briton line (and the Briton male version has better weapons and armor). For game balance purposes alone, Balance Mod needed to buff the female troop tree.

In addition, there were two other reasons for the change. First, the idea of sterotyping female warriors as archers is far overplayed in popular culture, and I think the hybrid melee/ranged Balance Mod version is much more interesting. Second, the earlier levels of the female troops tree feature slingers and melee hybrids--it made little sense to have the final unit suddenly have a worse melee weapon and abandon the slings it was trained in to become an archer.
 
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Tierre

Recruit
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and the player can get the powerful unique swords
About unique weapons - The vanilla game has a unique spear the Ray. It is slightly longer and a couple of points(1 or 2) stronger than ordinary long war spears - a small chip for the Munchkins. In balanced mode, it became weaker than long war spear and the point of buying it was gone ... this is not entirely logical.

Throwing spears have higher damage because of their other disadvantages--slow speed, low ammo, and low range.
They already had their advantages - a big bonus of speed, due to which they inflicted very great damage, the ability to use with a shield, the ability to use with a horse and most importantly - they, unlike other long-range weapons, occupy only one slot. So I chose this particular weapon for my character in VC vanilla without any additional damage. So it seems to me that it’s not quite balanced to make this weapon ultimatum: 1 hit = one death.

The Balance Mod Camp Defender is a far stronger unit than the vanilla VC Camp Defender.
The Balance Mod Camp Defender has a military sling, one of the best ranged weapons in the game, not a normal sling. She also has a good quality melee weapon (broad or langseax, axe, or sword). She has a good shield, armor, helm, and gloves. She has a 170 WP in slings, and a 160 WP in melee.
Ok, I prefer to give them better longbow + an additional pack of arrows + some sort of light armors + boots and helmets (the same as used by briton archers) + light spears (like used by a soldier wives) and archery skill 145. In any case, I do not want to throw them into close combat - it is too hard to get them.
trp_sword_sister Camp_Defender Camp_Defenders 0 70254593 0 0 1 0 0
1030 0 1031 0 1031 0 140 0 141 0 762 0 763 0 395 0 863 0 412 0 417 0 425 0 426 0 427 0 428 0 429 0 430 0 142 0 351 0 898 0 899 0 603 0 604 0 607 0 608 0 168 0 169 0 862 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0
16 8 12 12 23
170 135 110 145 0 150 150
0 262144 0 12883 402496 0
8210 3937470656788410988 1942827 0 61186523153 3937470656788410988 1942827 0

In general, choosing the right type of items is quite difficult, given the fact that they do not have numbering - only a position in the list ...
 

Tingyun

Knight at Arms
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About unique weapons - The vanilla game has a unique spear the Ray. It is slightly longer and a couple of points(1 or 2) stronger than ordinary long war spears - a small chip for the Munchkins. In balanced mode, it became weaker than long war spear and the point of buying it was gone ... this is not entirely logical.
That isn't correct. The Ray has speed 88, 220 weapon length, 33 thrust damage. That is better than both Long War Spears, the highest damage one is speed 91, 193 weapon length, 33 thrust damage. 3 points of speed for the extra length is no choice.

The only thing competitive with the Ray is the Heavy Long War Spear, lootable from high level enemies. That one has 88 speed, 205 weapon length, 34 thrust damage. Between the Ray and that Heavy Long War Spear, it becomes a tradeoff of 15 length vs 1 damage.

Creating those kinds of tradeoffs is exactly the goal of Balance Mod--make all top tier weapons have some viable choices for the player to choose the best for their situation. And note, there is absolutely no reason why the Ray should be the unquestionably best spear. It is easy to obtain--spend a little gold at a special smith.

The harder equipment to get are items for which there isn't a guaranteed way to buy, but instead you have to loot them from the best troops. Balance Mod generally takes the best guaranteed equipment and balances them to be of similar tier but slightly different tradeoffs from the best lootable equipment: Orm's Lorrica vs Bear Lorrica for example (Bear Lorrica is only obtainable by looting the highest level Norse troops).

What Balance Mod does do is make all the unique weapons that were underpowered better. Unique swords are given boosts in Balance Mod, especially the ones that were weak in vanilla, and Irish swords are no longer always better.

Moreover, the one spear that actually is special and hard to obtain--Gungnir--is made stronger, with +1 damage over the Ray in Balance Mod, making it the best spear in the game. If the player actually wants to work to earn a slightly better weapon, they have that option--go get Gungnir, and pay the price that comes from seizing it from its owner, rather than expect a super weapon for dropping a small amount of gold at a smith. Though it doesn't matter much--+1 damage is dwarfed by player skill, and either spear is going to kill your enemies.

They already had their advantages - a big bonus of speed, due to which they inflicted very great damage, the ability to use with a shield, the ability to use with a horse and most importantly - they, unlike other long-range weapons, occupy only one slot. So I chose this particular weapon for my character in VC vanilla without any additional damage. So it seems to me that it’s not quite balanced to make this weapon ultimatum: 1 hit = one death.
There seems to be confusion here--Balance Mod did not make throwing weapons in general stronger. Throwing spears and basic "javelins" were only buffed to make them closer in overall utility to the Irish/Pict javelins. Not equal, mind you--the Irish and Picts versions still have an advantage there--just a little more condensed.

Throwing spears got a boost of damage in balance mod, to make up for their low range, low speed, and low ammo. This doesn't make them overpowered, it just makes them more competitive with the Irish/Pict throwing weapons with each having tradeoffs.

Javelins, on the other hand, are not one hit kills, and more importantly Balance Mod did not increase their damage as a general matter. Instead what Balance Mod did was condense the difference between the Irish/Pict javelins, and the basic javelins wielded by anglosaxon/norse.

Since you mentioned player weapon loadout--no, Balance Mod has not offered the player a better weapon here. In Vanilla VC the player would always go for Irish Horseman Javelins, by far the superior weapon. In Balance Mod that same weapon is still the best (though slightly weakened) overall, though the player might, based on their specific kind of play, sometimes opt for the higher damage very low ammo/range throwing spear instead, giving them a viable tactical choice.

Ok, I prefer to give them better longbow + an additional pack of arrows + some sort of light armors + boots and helmets (the same as used by briton archers) + light spears (like used by a soldier wives) and archery skill 145.
Please don't complain that a unit was "nerfed" relative to your own modded version. I treat player feedback very seriously, and it always causes me to research things, so when you above complained that I had nerfed the unit, I went and recorded the Balance Mod stats and equipment, then loaded up vanilla VC, and then wrote and posted a comparison. That's a lot of time wasted.

You are welcome to suggest your own alternate versions of units, though I wouldn't adopt this particular one (as I mentioned earlier, I think making female warriors pure archers is far overplayed in popular culture, and I prefer a hybrid elite slinger/melee christian counterpart to the norse warrior archer).

In general, choosing the right type of items is quite difficult, given the fact that they do not have numbering - only a position in the list ...
You can mostly use Morgh's editor for personal changes, just don't try to edit Lords or it will erase their navigation skill.
 
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Tierre

Recruit
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Please don't complain that a unit was "nerfed" relative to your own modded version. I treat player feedback very seriously, and it always causes me to research things, so when you above complained that I had nerfed the unit, I went and recorded the Balance Mod stats and equipment, then loaded up vanilla VC, and then wrote and posted a comparison. That's a lot of time wasted.
Sorry for your time and effort. Actually, I didn't modded vanilla VC - only Balanced mode VC, because I wanted my archers back, and I did them a little better at the same time, but not as good as norse warrior archer:smile:


You can mostly use Morgh's editor for personal changes, just don't try to edit Lords or it will erase their navigation skill.
Thank you for the information.
 

Tingyun

Knight at Arms
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Morgh's is a great tool for small changes to troops and items. If you go further and want to start changing deeper aspects of the game, the Balance Mod source files are all available for download as a seperate archive. They are compatible with Kalarhan's VC Tweaks Tool 1.2, which also allows you to mod your game in a number of fun ways.

If you end up doing a lot of edits, I'd encourage you to make your version available as a submod for others to download. The 10 alternate versions/add-ons for Balance Mod are a result of how many different preferences there are among players, and I'm sure many players would love to try out whatever you create!
 

HighOnez

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Hello Tingyun. How have you been recently? Everything going well with Hooded Horse? (I know this isn't relevant to VC Balance, just wanted to ask lol.) Oh, and if I forgot, thanks for the support on my personal modifications for troops that you gave me. Sorry, because it's such a late thanks. I haven't been playing VC that often, so I sort of disappeared till now.