Varyag is the worst infantry even tho he is supposed to be the best

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Greedalicious

Grandmaster Knight
WB
All weapons + items (shields, arrows) you carry reduce your movement speed. Weapons in holsters have a smaller impact though yes.



The stat isnt wrong. But yes if you carry a lot of weapons, you will be ever so slightly slower. Although the biggest factor for this are bows and shields. Most weapons weigh around the same.
What I mean is depending on the weapon you pick, the movement speed will be different. So lets take Voulgier, With a movement speed of 81, what weapon is that accurate for? Surely the movement speed is lower if you pick the sword and shield perk, but the stat itself doesnt change.
 

Krisee

Sergeant
They're supposed to based on the norse who never used maces. The axe works fine when it hits with the end for full damage it's sometimes a 1 shot kill. it's too long and slow and that's why it's bad.
Problem is axe doesn't always work properly when it hits, to many glance/weak hits for 5-15 damage
 

Hairless

Knight
Are we just gonna ignore the general mace nerfs across the board and the buff to the Varyag longsword and both axes?

Also armor across the board was reduced so axes are gonna be better by that fact alone too. Oh well I am lying, not all classes armor was reduced. The Varyag is the only infantry class that had its armor buffed.

Brawny got a buff that you failed to mention by 5%. There is a buff to their shield too... And yeah Fellers extra damage was reduced by 3%, while all Melee Expert perks for other factions were reduced by 5% (from 15% - > 10%) So you deal 7% more damage than other inf now, rather than the +5% before. Also they have the best anti inf armor perk with blunt damage reduction.

No idea where you are coming from with this. Literally everything in this patch is made to pave the way for this class to become better. Sure those changes might seem small to you, but a lot of things do, I swear this patch is a grower.
It all sounds nice and cool, the dmg is there now, and it's gonna be more reliable. I don't consider brawny a perk, even with the 5% buff, the difference between feller and brawny dmg is enormous, and +5% there and -3% there won't make the gap much smaller. What Varyag lacks is movement speed. And even if you give him that movement speed, I am 100% sure that sturgia will still remain in dog**** spot it currently is in for couple of patches.
 

jon01

Knight at Arms
Still have no idea if weapons have weight in Bannerlord ?‍♂️
Here's some more info from a dev blog:

HOW SEVERE COMPARED TO WARBAND; WILL MOVEMENT PENALTIES FOR USING HEAVY ARMOUR/WEAPONS BE?
“In multiplayer, we tie movement speeds to the class rather than weapon weights or armour. This enables us to, for example, make a berserker very agile, even though his weapon may be very heavy ... These speeds, as well as, the acceleration can also be set for each individual multiplayer class, giving designers (and eventually modders) an easy way to create unique classes without having the hassle to cross balance the weights of the armours for every small change.”

I noticed this in one of your videos:


Styo: "We aren't going to have an issue with tiny men as archers that can out run everyone again in Warband beta days, are we? Man, that was a pain to deal with."
 

Greedalicious

Grandmaster Knight
WB
Here's some more info from a dev blog:

HOW SEVERE COMPARED TO WARBAND; WILL MOVEMENT PENALTIES FOR USING HEAVY ARMOUR/WEAPONS BE?
“In multiplayer, we tie movement speeds to the class rather than weapon weights or armour. This enables us to, for example, make a berserker very agile, even though his weapon may be very heavy ... These speeds, as well as, the acceleration can also be set for each individual multiplayer class, giving designers (and eventually modders) an easy way to create unique classes without having the hassle to cross balance the weights of the armours for every small change.”

I noticed this in one of your videos:


Styo: "We aren't going to have an issue with tiny men as archers that can out run everyone again in Warband beta days, are we? Man, that was a pain to deal with."
Yeah I remember that night... I was not having fun. The difference in movement speed between classes is and always will be a massive issue, especially between infantry classes. I'm ok with archers and cavs taking a sledgehammer to the kneecaps, but infantry should have a simmilar movement speed to avoid situations like that.

I remember that devblog aswell, but I did some testing long ago and noticed the difference, but I couldnt get it verified until now.
 

Einarcf

Master Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
They're supposed to based on the norse who never used maces.
They are kinda meant to be both Warband Nords and Vaegirs, the latter used maces somewhat

Reading from the wiki: Vaegir Veteran, Vaegir Skirmisher had chance for maces in SP (No idea about the spawn rate). And their archer and infantry unit also have access to those kind of weapons in the multiplayer.

Edit: Seemed like Nord Veteran could also spawn with maces.
 
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ParzivaI

Sergeant
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
They don't have a mace... in captain they get destroyed by almost mace unit including rabbles, They used to be great few months ago but right now they are very bad, also their axe is slow
 

AxiosXiphos

Sergeant Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
They don't have a mace... in captain they get destroyed by almost mace unit including rabbles, They used to be great few months ago but right now they are very bad, also their axe is slow
Maces are getting nerfed pretty hard in the next patch - will see how they do then.
 

Reepacheep

Regular
I used to love varyag when he could have the old version of the bastard axe. It was one of the best weapons in the game IMO and could compete with other heavies because it was fast and good against shields. Now Sturgian infantry is some of the worst in the game, their archers suck, berserker is only good in some situations, and cav is decent at best.
 

flashn00b

Sergeant at Arms
I used to love varyag when he could have the old version of the bastard axe. It was one of the best weapons in the game IMO and could compete with other heavies because it was fast and good against shields. Now Sturgian infantry is some of the worst in the game, their archers suck, berserker is only good in some situations, and cav is decent at best.
If it's of any consolation, the Bastard Axe is available on the Dhruznikk, and I think that combined with the lack of "ragequit if you die as this unit" downside already make Sturgia have one of the best heavy cavalry units in the game.
 

EbdanianAdmiral

Knight at Arms
I dont have much to add to this other than Sturgia in general desperately needs a good way to deal with armor and giving Varyag a mace option would be a huge help in that regard.
 

flashn00b

Sergeant at Arms
I dont have much to add to this other than Sturgia in general desperately needs a good way to deal with armor and giving Varyag a mace option would be a huge help in that regard.
Even if they wanna make the Varyag strictly an axeman, they could give blunt weapons to other units:

Brigand: A short but fast billy club would probably give some extra blunt damage for a class currently reliant on meleeing people with throwing axes.
Hunter: The Shield perk actually downgrades the Sturgian archer's melee weapon. I feel like a decent mace would be a good way to do a melee perk on an archer.
 
Are we just gonna ignore the general mace nerfs across the board and the buff to the Varyag longsword and both axes?

Also armor across the board was reduced so axes are gonna be better by that fact alone too. Oh well I am lying, not all classes armor was reduced. The Varyag is the only infantry class that had its armor buffed.

Brawny got a buff that you failed to mention by 5%. There is a buff to their shield too... And yeah Fellers extra damage was reduced by 3%, while all Melee Expert perks for other factions were reduced by 5% (from 15% - > 10%) So you deal 7% more damage than other inf now, rather than the +5% before. Also they have the best anti inf armor perk with blunt damage reduction.

No idea where you are coming from with this. Literally everything in this patch is made to pave the way for this class to become better. Sure those changes might seem small to you, but a lot of things do, I swear this patch is a grower.

Yes, we are ignoring it, because your changes are trivial and are not adressing the problem.
Moving around damage numbers is not the solution to varyags problems.
Varyag will still be the worse heavy inf in the game to chase light archers.
Varyag will still be worse (in cost effectivity) in group hug distance 4v4 inf fights all other heavy infs and tribal warrior.

And Speaking for the faction, Sturgian Cav will still have mules for horses bc they are "Sturgian", but they will still have the worse cav shields bc they are not "Sturgian" in that department. I'll repeat myself, Berserker is plain scam for its price. What faction is supposed to enjoy a proper 2handing class if not sturgia?

Moving numbers around every 6 months and loading the Servers harder with more scripts every patch is not fixing anything.
 

King_Bark

Regular
Yes, we are ignoring it, because your changes are trivial and are not adressing the problem.
Moving around damage numbers is not the solution to varyags problems.
Varyag will still be the worse heavy inf in the game to chase light archers.
Varyag will still be worse (in cost effectivity) in group hug distance 4v4 inf fights all other heavy infs and tribal warrior.

And Speaking for the faction, Sturgian Cav will still have mules for horses bc they are "Sturgian", but they will still have the worse cav shields bc they are not "Sturgian" in that department. I'll repeat myself, Berserker is plain scam for its price. What faction is supposed to enjoy a proper 2handing class if not sturgia?

Moving numbers around every 6 months and loading the Servers harder with more scripts every patch is not fixing anything.
Noobs get mad if they make 2handed weapons usable. Can't have anything fun that lets you stunt on noobs
 

Hairless

Knight
Yes, we are ignoring it, because your changes are trivial and are not adressing the problem.
Moving around damage numbers is not the solution to varyags problems.
Varyag will still be the worse heavy inf in the game to chase light archers.
Varyag will still be worse (in cost effectivity) in group hug distance 4v4 inf fights all other heavy infs and tribal warrior.

And Speaking for the faction, Sturgian Cav will still have mules for horses bc they are "Sturgian", but they will still have the worse cav shields bc they are not "Sturgian" in that department. I'll repeat myself, Berserker is plain scam for its price. What faction is supposed to enjoy a proper 2handing class if not sturgia?

Moving numbers around every 6 months and loading the Servers harder with more scripts every patch is not fixing anything.
Finally someone gets it. Core of the Varyag problem lies in its movement speed. Speaking competitive wise sturgia is horrendous to play. If a class cannot have dmg and movement speed like other classes in same category, it's doomed. Varyag which is supposed to be best inf, ultimately is the worst one due to making compromises on perk selections that other heavy infs don't have. And we are talking a situation when we forget mace existence, and all the bad sides of using an axe. Also teamfight wise, a moment when someone switches, as varyag you cannot even catch up to them before they gang up on your teammate in 2 vs 1 situation. Varyag will remain worst heavy inf in game as long as it doesn't get 5% movement speed on the Feller perk(any brawny argument makes no sense as brawny is straight downgrade, or so called "jack of all trades" middle ground between cav breaker and dmg perk, which makes it straight bad).

Speaking of other Sturgia classes, they have worst archer and skirmisher in game. Skirmisher is the only one that lacks movement perk and proper 1handed weapon among skirmishers, and archer is just plain bad. Their 100 inf is probably only better than battania 100 inf due to ability of having shield + spear. 2handed classes are not even a class anymore, but I don't mind leaving them in grey area of TDM/Siege, as we once had them broken and it was arguably worst few months of crushtrough we had so far.

Also anyone mentioning 2 hands is clearly tdm/siege player that doesn't understand whats going on.
 

Liscia

Recruit
Finally someone gets it. Core of the Varyag problem lies in its movement speed. Speaking competitive wise sturgia is horrendous to play. If a class cannot have dmg and movement speed like other classes in same category, it's doomed. Varyag which is supposed to be best inf, ultimately is the worst one due to making compromises on perk selections that other heavy infs don't have. And we are talking a situation when we forget mace existence, and all the bad sides of using an axe. Also teamfight wise, a moment when someone switches, as varyag you cannot even catch up to them before they gang up on your teammate in 2 vs 1 situation. Varyag will remain worst heavy inf in game as long as it doesn't get 5% movement speed on the Feller perk(any brawny argument makes no sense as brawny is straight downgrade, or so called "jack of all trades" middle ground between cav breaker and dmg perk, which makes it straight bad).

Speaking of other Sturgia classes, they have worst archer and skirmisher in game. Skirmisher is the only one that lacks movement perk and proper 1handed weapon among skirmishers, and archer is just plain bad. Their 100 inf is probably only better than battania 100 inf due to ability of having shield + spear. 2handed classes are not even a class anymore, but I don't mind leaving them in grey area of TDM/Siege, as we once had them broken and it was arguably worst few months of crushtrough we had so far.

Also anyone mentioning 2 hands is clearly tdm/siege player that doesn't understand whats going on.
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