varied movement! (animation)

[eric virgo]

I know there is a relevant topic somewhere but this one has a twist!
its about the animations! the battle animations! No i am not talking about how the characters fall or anything like that.

I am talking about varied movement during melee battle!
so...
when I am fighting in mount and blade (apart from the occasional mental hard-on) i feel somewhat stiff! like a physical hard-on!
OK SORRY!

I would like to "feel" the weight of the sword. I would like my stance (camera) to change when i slash or overhead! also i would love to be jerked around when I am being hit! I "love" the feeling when a horse bumps into me and i fall down! I always let out a curseword... you know.. cause it feels so ... real! it kind of hurts! Every time I fall i make and angry face and think of bad things! i can almost feel the wind getting knocked out of me!
when an enemy sword hits me I go "ouch... careful!!!!"

same goes with my shield and enemy arrows. it feels great to see the shield getting pushed back by the force of the arrow. I makes me "fear" the arrow.

also, as an extention to that... I was playing unreal tourmament the other day and I had this choice to doubletap any movement button to dodge towards the respective direction.
thats a good idea... and it is good cause apart from any defensive advantage, it would really work great combined with any attack!
(of course the doubletap dodge shouldn't be as effective as it is in unreal tournament,, you know,,, a bit more realistic and slow. just enough to get out of an attack! or hop foreward and thrust the blade in hard!)

i also thought of a 9 point direction attack scheme (instead of the 4 existing ones that goes like this:

 

[Bearhugger]

i like the idea with 9 attack directions.
but how would you take armor into account then? example: slash from the upper left to the lower right?

on second thought, i dont think an uppercut slash would be useful, not even possible. maybe i just lack the fantasy to imagine this, at least not with long weapons, maybe dagger, ok.
also piercing attacks on different parts of the body should be possible (head, groin hehe) - weak spots.

 

[Hobbes]

couched lance headshot 200 damage... hehehe

Having 9 points to aim at wold be better, but taking in account you would have to be able to block every move too a human player would never master the art of fighting without a shield.

 

[No name]

on second thought, i dont think an uppercut slash would be useful, not even possible.

Perhaps. But if you could crouch in defensive position, then as he come forward you stand and sweep up. It will be very devastating. Maybe the enemy will be flung upwards

...it would really work great combined with any attack!

Personally i think it will be better for attacks to be co-ordinated with movements. For the current system, the attack is based relative to the enemy's position from the cursor. But what if there is a group? And many times i wanted to change direction of attack for a surprise hit, then the direction refuse to change. To me, the attacks are roughly random, with a nice direction occationally. Attacks based on movement will make the attacks more precise.

The 9 directions will be good, but remember that there is a jump and the up-coming crouch. And also what if you attack in the middle of an crouch, or rise, or jump, or the moment before you touch the ground? If the developers can do them then it'll provide really good action. Then maybe this can lead to linking combos, like a stab, crouch, upward slice. Like Regnier from Kingdom under Fire.

I had this choice to doubletap any movement button to dodge towards the respective direction.

Yeah, dodge sounds really good to me. I feel the character is really stiff and static like a wooden board. The character should be more nimble to evade blocks. Duck instead of blocking, then do an upwards slash, or dash left while delivering a right to left slash. Of course, people who wear platemail isnt so nimble, shouldnt be able to dodge quickly. Oh, btw, if unarmed combat like boxing is implemented, then it'll be really good. Right duck jab or whatever.

Eric, i like your suggestions. Hope others get to agree too.

 

[Lethandis]

Eh, going with the realistic feel of the game, I'd have to say no way, on the being flung upwards thing. . .Arnie couldn't really get any appreciable height from hitting someone like that, especially with a weapon.

However, the upslash would, I think be possible and actually a kinda shifty trick to pull with a hand axe. Most other weapons though, I think it may be really unreaslistic, so probably not worth implementing for one weapon (just the uppercut, the other 8 points are nice).

On the multi-hit location, I think the game already takes this into account to some degree, I find that even melee weapons do much better damage if I get an enemy in the head, even when they are wearing leather armor but a metal helm.

 

[eric virgo]

thanxx guys...
about the uppercut slash:

its not something impossible to do.. I mean its almost a "standard" katana strike! of course, as it happens with the game as it is, some weapons could be "unable" to perform" certain movements (like the non-thrusting sabre) a sledge hammer couldn't thrust too...
so lets say that the uppercut could only be performed with light swords (blades) or two handed pole arms or something. there are many martial arts examples of an uppercut...

the dodge is simple to do too I think. it would be like a modified jump. swifter, shorter in height and distance...

and about the fella that commented on the thrusting of a blade to the face. it can still happen! you just move you mouse up a bit after clicking. I often do that now, when the thrust motion means pointing your mouse low...

i agree that the blocking parrying would be much more difficult but thats my dream game like!
my fav game was always operation flashpoint. ultra realism fest! one shot, one kill! so you see where i am coming from!

 

[Lethandis]

Hmm, I suppose perhaps with a scimitar or the nomad sabre, it'd be possible, but most european swords were built on principle to have gravity do a large portion of the work for you. I just don't see it as an effective attack with most midevil european weaponry besides the handaxe.

One should keep in mind that the daito and tachi katanas are designed and weighted much differently than european swords, and the ways you fight with them are almost completely alien to each other.

 

[yehrom]

no name :

Attacks are not random...

They are define by your current position && the move you are doing.
Only the block is over-control, just a reaction following the nearest FOE attack.

 

[Jhaerik]

Personally I think the top 5 attacks, and a better peircing attack system would work better. I'd love to be able to stab where I want to stab.

 

[Lethandis]

Personally I think the top 5 attacks, and a better peircing attack system would work better. I'd love to be able to stab where I want to stab.

Yes, it makes no sense that a thrust is the simplest move to block, if I have a 2-hander, or worse, a 1 hander and my shield is broken, to beat a spearman, all I have to do is walk towards him holding block. . .I'll get there eventually, he can only stab at my belt buckle, so I only need to block one spot.

In reality, thrusts come quick and hard, and the angle difference in strikes makes it hard to tell where they are aiming for and where is best to block. I think piercing weapons should be able to attack the same areas any other weapon is able to. They would use the same animation, just angle the weapon towards where they are thrusting. This would make it a much more challenging and realistic fight to go against a spearman.

 

[The Mark]

About uppercuts: They are perfectly viable strikes, even with longer swords.
Exhibit A: Arma clip demonstrating a greatsword florysh, including uppercuts: http://www.thearma.org/Videos/mov37.mpg
Exhibit B: Arma clip demonstrating a longsword florysh, including uppercuts:
http://www.thearma.org/Videos/cdflor1.mpg

If this would be done, replacing the middle uppercut with a low stab, the middle piercing attack being a higher stab would make sense, or splitting the stab zone into two.

 

[Lethandis]

Hmm, watched those, I'm not convinced.

They only used the uppercuts coming up and across. I only said the direct uppercut (having specified only one of the nine did I see as an unlikely blow) was something I didn't see doing effectively with a sword. The diagonal upward slashes I am completely fine with.

In order to do a straight uppercut though, you would have to have both arms in front of you, pulling the blade up, I've never attempted that when I was wielding swords, and not having one on-hand (current landlord has this thing about deadly weapons. . .and neighbor lady is snoopy. . . ), I tried the stance with a yardstick, and it just feels like I'm off-ballance and wouldn't have any real strength behind a blow like that. Maybe from there I could use my sword to help lever someone off-ballance and a quick forward rush would topple them. . .*shrug* just an oppion, not as flexible as I used-to-was, so maybe I'm wrong.

 

[okiN]

The Mark, at no point in those videos do the guys strike directly upwards, each uppercut they perform is at least a little diagonal. I also disagree with having "low stab" and "high stab" separately, you can just do a basic stabbing attack and aim it wherever you like. I think a reasonable way to do it would be this:

 

[The Mark]

It seems I shouldn't browse through these topics in a hurry , sorry 'bout that. I just read lots of stuff about uppercuts being impossible to do, so I gave some examples of diagonal uppercuts. The straight uppercut wouldn't be good, that's true, and that's why I suggested replacing it with a lower stab; from Alber, the stance Lethandis tried, one could quite easily lift the tip a bit upwards, lunge and drive the tip upwards in a deadly stab to stomach and up into the ribcage, but slashing from there.. not good. Barely doable, not effective.

Edit:
Separate high and low stabs would actually make quite a lot of sense; A stab can come at least from the Ochs (the stab we currently have, a high stab), and from Alber/Plugh, a low stab. You can see them also in the clips.