Variation in Tactical Battles: Victory Conditions

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OddjobXL

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One thing I've always noticed but enjoyed the game too much to really worry about is the essentially repetative nature of all tactical engagements. There's one and only one victory condition: destroy all monsters! Err. Opponents.

Maybe some other sorts of battles could be developed?

Attack location. Take a particular site on the map from defenders. Defenders would have an automatic tactical advantage, would not be drawn away from the site, and should have plentiful cover/archer/crossbow support if in the open. There should be different sites. Camps, bridges, crossroads, small manors/keeps with interiors rendered, etc.

Defend location. Attackers should be aggressive and not easily distracted from the target. No natural tactical advantage for defending players.

Escort X. X being caravans of slow moving merchant wagons, mobs of refugees, army supplies, seige equipment, etc. The escortee should move at a slow, constant, rate across the tactical map. The end reward (or effectiveness of the escorted goods/equipment if it has a function) depends on how well preserved the escortees are.

I'm sure other folks can think of other conditions for victory. Missions like these could be dynamic or assigned missions. They could arise from NPC granted quests, an event engine or as consequences of strategic warfare engine should the latter two ever be incorporated.

Edit: Another, far more exotic, possibility could be for special Scenarios to come up in play that only the player and special NPCs can come along for with a max of 4 or so participants. These could happen on specially designed maps (easily moddable) and incorporate some dialogue and other unusual elements like traps. Special conditions could be placed on them (no mounts, for example, in interiors). Rewards could vary from items, troops, special NPCs, gold or possibly even special items (saint's relics, legendary banners, special medicines - essentially non-magical magic items that might give a morale or modest stat boost). Finding the location of such special Scenarios could be the result of happenstance or the result of doing alot of more conventional missions for an NPC.
 
I'd like to see maybe Noble missions to have goals similar to your 'attack location' idea - to take a defended manor/watchtower or the like in a strategically important location.

All in all, I'd like to see something like this in the game.
 
Another way to get some variation going might be minor events that can come up during a battle. Of course that might get frustrating as it could upset habits and plans - at the same time, habits and plans are made to be upset. That's the point of variation.

Examples:

Knights Charge!
Condition: Friendly Forces on the Battlemap must be primarily knights (of either faction).
Effect: Knights mount up and rush the nearest foes. They ignore any orders until a Knightly casualty is taken.

Mercenaries Bribed!
Condition: Any Friendly Mercenaries including Hired Blades but not Townsmen, Watchmen or Caravan Guards.
Effect: Mercenary and Hired Blade units retreat from action and do not appear in battle order unless additional gold is paid on the spot. Must be equal to one month's pay.

Enemies Beg For Mercy!
Condition: Enemy Forces in last wave of battle are losing badly.
Effect: At player's discretion, the battle ends and all defeated, surviving, enemies become recruitable troops instead of prisoners.

Unexpected Reinforcements!
Condition: Player is allied to Kingdom and losing the last wave of the battle.
Effect: Random allied force of joins battle, pouring onto the battlefield and adding any reserves to player's forces. They leave after the battle.

Ambushed!
Condition: Battle in Forests or at Night. Niether NPCs nor player has a spotting skill of greater than 4.
Effect: Automatic tactical disadvantage of 4. Positioned in center of map. Hostile forces approaching from two opposite directions.

Bows Useless!
Condition: Rainy weather and archers or crossbowmen in party. High probability.
Effect: Archers, horse archers, and crossbowmen are limited to melee weapons. This effects both sides.

And so forth. All kinds of doodads that might be too complex to handle in the overall game structure can be faked into tactical battle events. They could involve NPCs, NPC leaders, specific weapon types, etc. Just stuff to add to the drama and keep players on their toes. Should also tend to encouraging players to use mixed forces. Special events to disadvantage various kinds of troops should especially be encouraged.
 
Bows Useless!
Condition: Rainy weather and archers or crossbowmen in party. High probability.
Effect: Archers, horse archers, and crossbowmen are limited to melee weapons. This effects both sides.
Nah, a little rain doesn't stop me from sendin a bolt into the forehead of an enemy warrior (at least if the range isn't too long)
 
Well, heck, toss out some other ideas. The bows useless could also mean fletchers are slacking off. But I figure giving one side all the missile weapons would be a bit much. Maybe toss some fog in with the rain or something.

Specifics aren't huge but just neat ideas to shake things up and make each battle that much more dramatic. And, perhaps, forces players to put on the thinking cap a bit more often. I have to confess I tend to find myself doing things the same way over and over again, myself. That can get a bit old.
 
I'd prefer that on rainy the bows were less useful, not completely useless.

edit: Changed useless to useful, to make it make more sense :wink:
 
I didn't like this idea originally, but the schema which Oddjob drew up is absolutely excellent (with a good Dynasty Warriors vibe, I might add, but not unrealistic)--those and other battlefield-scale events would be cool.
 
These ideas are interesting but they definately need more thought put behind them so that they can be made perfect and implemented into the game well :smile:. There are many, many variables to think of, and, quite frankly, I'm a bit tired. Probably tomorrow I'll come in here and post more.

One thing is for certain, though- the game should try to stay away from scripted events and stay to nonscripted dynamic events that occur because of situations a person is immersed in.
Example: We don't need a flashy popup telling us to 'attack the enemy' or some such thing if the enemy is holding a defensive position, we should simply attack it.

I think the underlying objective of the game should be to 'destroy all monsters.' Destroy can mean a variety of things, but mostly it means to get rid of- by causing them to flee, die, or whatever you can think of.
 
I'm certainly not a fan of scripted events myself which is why I describe these as random events. It's crap that just happens. In some cases the conditions are clues that certain events are more possible.

As for victory conditions, well, of course they can be a consequence of some strategic engine that sends units out to guard or attack positions, that needs supplies ferried here and there while escorted. Or it could be just that someone "gave you orders" to go there, and do that. Pretty much how it works in real life too if you're military. And it could actually be a combination of both. Along with an event engine that could change probabilities for certain kinds of random tactical events based on global situations and you'd have quite a robust and dynamic design.

But at the barebones, basic, level - no matter how it's actually implimented, there needs to be something creating alot more variation in tactical engagements. Just drawing a card out of the hat and tacking on an explanation that's vaguely plausible is better than nothing.
 
Not sure if this is suggested before, but something I would like to see:

Special "solo-mission"

First you must defeat (as an example) enemy forces at watchtower with your army and after that, you and maybe your fellow NPCs (or couple of melee fighters, if no NPCs in fighting condition) have to enter that watchtower and cleanse it from enemy troops. So the point is indoors-fighting...

Could be used as a mission received from the king himself...
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Questions:

Could this be done?

What do you think?

Suggest more...
 
I agree that the battles could use some variety. Oddjob had good ideas and many suggestions have been made elsewhere. Adding variety here is one of the most important features to add, in my opinon, as battles are the heart of the game.
 
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