Vaegir is too imba

[RainyX]

Vaegir troop very strong, and imba
Nord, Khergit is weak
Vaegir is balance between all troop (archer, infantry, horse all have Armor 180 def) and very imba with another faction
in my game, Vaegir conquest all 3 town, and 2 castle of Nord only 70 day. I try fight with them but their infantry have a heavy armor. I slash Vaegir Express >3 hit, they die. and 1-2 hit with Nord infantry Express. Vaegir is tank easy to destroy my tactic. I can only let they rout, can't kill them all.
I think it is imbalance here while Vaegir infantry have a heavy armor 180 def, than Swadia (1 unit) have Gothic Armor, and Nord, Khergit is no one.

When try to sneak in town, only 5 pike recruit (steel armor 180 def) easy hit me down (if i'm not careful), so that it easy in another town. with crossbow, and archer of Swadia, rokdor, khergit

When besiege I can climb into the wall with my troop, but in Vaegir town, none can. They easy kill all my Swadia foot man while they climb ladder to wall

Another else. I hope Nord is not weak in Infantry like this, and Khergit is not weak in horse too. Please keep that in Native

 

[xenoargh]

We've seen a thousand of these threads.

Vaegir are easy to beat.  Use Arquebussiers, Gaucho Pikemen, Felhammirs, Expert Female Irregulars, Landsknechts, etc., etc. to defeat them- anything with good Piercing damage.  They have great armor, but they are slow, and their troops aren't as skilled as the other factions.  They aren't "imba", they're actually kind've overpriced right now.

In sieges vs. Vaegir, don't just send in troops, lol.  Kill them with cannons or with guns for awhile.  Use some tactics, don't just rush.

The Khergits get Rocketeers, which are very powerful missile troops, and heavy Lancers.

The Nords get Felhammirs and Beserkirs- powerful storm troops. 

In short, keep playing for awhile- most of the factions are fairly balanced against each other.  Not perfectly, but good enough that a good player can win.

 

[RainyX]

omg, i forgot gun power. But in infantry, they are too strong with Nord and easy conquest Nord

 

[xenoargh]

The Nords can defeat them.  They get Felhammirs, Beserkirs, Valkyries, and lots of guns.  The Nords are pretty strong now.

 

[RainyX]

the Nord 
that mean Vaegir is busy with me and Khergit

 

[xenoargh]

That's just auto-battle results.  The Vaegir probably have an unfair advantage right now, due to me raising their levels.  I may have to fix their prices a different way, if they're always winning auto-battles now

A player using Nord troops, though can beat the Vaegir.

 

[adrixshadow]

Its too Imba!

Spoiler

They seriously need some skirmishers

 

[ShadowWolf_Kell]

Once you learn to use infantry with piercing weapons (mace men work quite nicely) and use archers with anything but bows, the Vaegir begin to become rather trivial.

Try taking on Saranids armed with hundreds of Jezzails...

 

[satori]

I've mentioned this several times, but it's Xenoargh's mod.  He really likes plate wearing, steel shield clad Vaegir peasants. 

Don't get me wrong, I love this mod, and I'm having a lot of fun with it.  Xenoargh is doing a great job.  If anything, the current Vaegir design just strikes me as weird and wonky.  Recruits in 30k dinar armor and 5k dinar shields doesn't seem right to me.

Also...a group of top tier troops (Felhammirs, Berserkirs, Expert Female Mercs, Rocketeers, Jezzalis, etc) should be able to take anything.  Relying on top tier troops to defeat Recruit and Regular Vaegirs seems odd. 

I've learned that a line of cannons/rifles will kill just about anything, including Vaegir.  A rifle line is the ultimate defense, and needs to be disrupted very carefully (usually with heavy cavalry, as Khergits get blasted).

 

[Wu-long]

Psh I love the Vaegirs this is how I rule I go and beat the crap load of whoever  Iwant with my companion army buh when I am about to run I have them cover me

 

[Lancefighter]

dont be silly. The only peasant levy troops are archers, and they dont get plate until top tier.

 

[Suspicous Pilgrim]

Felhammiers are pretty good at roughhousing with my legionaires.

 

[xenoargh]

Also...a group of top tier troops (Felhammirs, Berserkirs, Expert Female Mercs, Rocketeers, Jezzalis, etc) should be able to take anything.  Relying on top tier troops to defeat Recruit and Regular Vaegirs seems odd. 

You may have a point there.  On the other hand, it doesn't take very long to get that stuff.

Definitely need to fix their levels, if nothing else- auto-battle results for the Vaegir are badly borked atm.  Ah well.

 

[Steffenximus]

Vaegirs brings a knife to a gun fight. You think that makes them good ?

 

[Gr. Adm. Thrawn]

Recruits in 30k dinar armor and 5k dinar shields doesn't seem right to me.

This.

A measly Vaegir Legionnaire who has just started his 'career' shouldn't have a better armor than a Fellhammir me thinks. I would be the first one to admit that Vaegirs, as now, are the pretty much only faction with real style. When you fight Vaegirs, you know you fight a faction, not a group of guys dressed randomly.

That said, the only thing to stop 100 Vaegir Crusher/Legion/Pike recruits charging to your ranks is massed gunpowder units which tend to cost 3x more than the insane recruits. In a battle of 500 vs 500, especially with the new ammo system, you get screwed costwise.

 

[adrixshadow]

How is getting a ton of money(30-50k) from vaegir prisoners(at least on Normal with all stuff on) screwed costwise?
There basically a gold mine
Besides with enough missile troops you probably don't even have any casualties
30 sarranid jezzais and you can wipe any lord out

 

[Maleficus04]

I actually had very good luck with JUST archers (bows!) as my main unit vs the Vaegirs, when I realized the nord infantry wasn't king, anymore. Bows work fine, you just need a line to guard them from any stray infantry that make it to you, or to slow charging cavalry.

That being said, I'd say the most effective thing I've setup, so far vs anything. Was an army of just Rhodok Pistoleros. You could throw in some spear or pikemen for a little extra protection, but honestly, if you do it right, no one is gonna make it to you. The fact that they have a high firing rate vs other gunpowder units, a decent, medium-range, and board shields, makes them a great wall of fire. Even in sieges or in any other circumstance where you have to advance on the enemy vs playing defense, you just tell them to hold fire and advance in a line of giant shields. When you get into range, fire at will and if you use show casualties, watch a line of enemy deaths scroll down your screen. The only weaknesses I've seen to this are the Sarranid Snipers and the Swadian Handgonners. But the fact is, they may wound/kill 3-5 of my units (slightly more, if the handgonners get a good shot) in the time it takes me to kill off 30 or more of their units.

It's kind of funny that this turned out to be a strategy for me in B&S, with the Rhodoks considering I used their Crossbowmen, in native, to do almost the exact same thing. Anyway, enough rambling from me, for now.

 

[Steffenximus]

Bows work fine, you just need a line to guard them from any stray infantry that make it to you, or to slow charging cavalry.

Take a look at my video fighting vaegirs, there is a way to protect your archers. I will also make an additional video how to stop the enemy charging cavalry later.

 

[Maleficus04]

I actually use a very similar tactic, except that I tend to put my infantry, especially shield and pike/spear infantry, slightly infront of my archers, if there's a little bit of an incline. That way, they stop the infantry/cavalry from coming, block some stray projectiles and they're not in the way of my own archer-units' shots.

P.S. I like how you just repeatedly kicked that one guy, as you were reloading. 

 

[RainyX]

hehe. i like to sell all vaegir to ransom, they are too expensive than another troop