Using Starting Class In-Game

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sheek

Knight at Arms
Old Guard
The starting categories of squire, hunter, merchant and novice priest don't have any effect on the game. I think a simple way to add more flavor to the game world would be to use these so they do make a difference.

I was just playing a new character, a hunter and I had got a scale armor as part of the loot for killing some deserters. I considered using it instead of my rawhide coat but decided to stay in character so I didn't. A young hunter just turned amateur adventurer wouldn't pick up and wear the first plate armor he happened to find. Neither would a priest just out of the monastery start swinging a bastard sword. That gave me my first idea. Limit the quality of armor, weapons and also skills depending on your level, your status and your fame.

At the start different classes would be limited to pretty limited selection of items. A hunter could have a rawhide coat and similar armors, at the most a khergit armor. He'd also be limited to simple weapons (axes, spears, clubs) with a chipped nordic or broad sword at best. Bows would be pretty much unlimited. Hunting skills (pathfinding, tracking) would be unlimited, but non-hunter skills (leadership, surgery, trade) would be limited. A priest would be limited to different kinds of staffs and the priest's robes. His skills would be unlimited in healing skills, but limited in combat skills (power strike, power draw). The merchant would have good quality leather armors at the maximum, good horses, basic swords but no maces, lances, khergit bows. He'd have unlimited trade but be limited in tracking, pathfinding, healing skills... etc.

Eventually your choice of items could go up in one of two ways.

The first idea is that it's dependent on your level. A hunter going up to level 10 would get access to better swords and squire type starting armors. A squire could by the level learn how to use a khergit bow or a long bow.

The second system which I prefer is that it's dependent on events in the game like completing quests. If you join any army (Vaegir or Swadian) you become a soldier so obviously you get access to basic soldier weaponry whatever your class.

Other quests could be created for non-squire characters to become nobles. They would be difficult quests or a series of quests. Once you completed it you would get access to all the squire weapons - a courser (though the merchant would have access to it before), maces, two-handed swords, and things like that. You could have several levels of nobility (squire, noble, lord, baron) which each give you access to better weapons.

Or the other way around a squire, merchant or priest could meet a hunter type NPC mentor in the woods somewhere. He would offer to teach you the ways of the woods. After completing the quest you would become a hunter, with the use of advanced bows and other special hunter skills/items. Obviously a squire becoming a hunter would lose his noble status and the noble weapons and items - you only have one class at a time.

This isn't very well thought out I know but it is an idea. If any of you likes the idea and wants to develop it or has suggestions you're more than welcome.

The problem that has stopped me from doing it myself is that I don't know where the player starting class is coded. It might not actually mean anything in the game. Anybody know about this?
 
Well, the idea is that the classes are more like general backgrounds than functional "Dungeons and Dragons" type classes. Why would a hunter (or any other background) be limited to certain weapons? Sure he grew up hunting so he's good with bows, but to say he can't even pick up a battle axe because he's a hunter? Doesn't make sense.
 
Nairagorn said:
Well, the idea is that the classes are more like general backgrounds than functional "Dungeons and Dragons" type classes. Why would a hunter (or any other background) be limited to certain weapons? Sure he grew up hunting so he's good with bows, but to say he can't even pick up a battle axe because he's a hunter? Doesn't make sense.

Agreed.
 
Noted.

Rather, I'd like to see someone who'd used to the handling of a bow struggle, when using a full-fledged battleaxe. Rather, be able to use it, just not effectively.

And Cataphract, my IP is not 24.77.74.127.

And also, isn't this rather appropiate for Suggestions?
 
A merchant who trains a lot will be a better fighter than a squire who doesn't. It's not like they're different species.
 
Fluffy The Hamster said:
Noted.

Rather, I'd like to see someone who'd used to the handling of a bow struggle, when using a full-fledged battleaxe. Rather, be able to use it, just not effectively.

And Cataphract, my IP is not 24.77.74.127.

And also, isn't this rather appropiate for Suggestions?

no way man, someone handling a bow all the time would be pretty strong, generally. probably more suited to pick up and swing about an axe than jonny soldier boy who's come fresh out of the barracks with his tiny military issue sword which he was given and told to hit that straw-bag-man for a while with.

arg limitation systems arent that fun in reality. what was so cool about games like morrowind and ultima online etc is that they didn't really have them...
 
Cataphract said:
Nairagorn said:
Well, the idea is that the classes are more like general backgrounds than functional "Dungeons and Dragons" type classes. Why would a hunter (or any other background) be limited to certain weapons? Sure he grew up hunting so he's good with bows, but to say he can't even pick up a battle axe because he's a hunter? Doesn't make sense.

Agreed.

Damn, everytime I see your sig i feel observed!!!! *shivers and looks over shoulder*
 
Cataphract said:
Fluffy The Hamster said:
And Cataphract, my IP is not 24.77.74.127.

Dammit, then its simply not working 100%, doesnt matter though :grin:
Obviously, it doesn't work for anyone with a proxy and many people with dial-up because of the transparent proxies used by some isps.
See, I know more than you do. :twisted: :razz:

P.S. How does it check OS version? I don't remember that being part of the http request.
 
Playing a char's flavour is fun.
Hardcoding chars to follow their role-model, without straying an inch isn't.

Starting classes basically curtail initial gaming choices.
As a priest/merchant you can't rely on personal combat prowess.
You have to rely on your entourage [be it flock or mercs]; yours is a supporting role until you pump your own proficiencies - or your soldiers' - up.

As a hunter you can't usually get in personal; either you spend your initial allotment in archery - so you can hit the wide side of a barn without hurting yourself - or you pump up melee skills a notch.

Best melee class for hunter IMO is polearms: it covers staves, poleaxes and lances.
Raise riding and horseback archery instead of athletics/draw, and you get a decent steppe-rider wannabe.
Don't bother with draw at 1st level. You can't afford the heavier bows anyway.

Once you can impale foes while trotting around, you can start using a lance as well.
Riding skill is good already; lances don't rely on defence, so you don't have to learn fancy swordplay [nor waste skill points on it].
You just have to line foes up and gallop; same skills learnt with horseback archery.
Polearms skill skyrockets when you start killing people; every other kill or so you get a +1 to proficiency. Beats any other melee weapon.
By time your archery is 150/175, your polearm/lance skill is around 75-100. Without spending advancement points. Just practice.

It isn't against original char's flavour either: it reminds of real world mongol riders, who used to employ composite bows and short lances.


About earth-bound archers: while hunters might seem frail, to function effectively they have to raise STR, so they can get draw 4 for longbow.
Longbowmen used to bring along mauls, axes and picks.
So it's not against char's flavour either to use battleaxes; they aren't elves, after all. :smile:



About squires: they can pump athletics up, so they can skim over battlefield, or they can raise STR-related skills [health and melee].

Note: shield is AGI-dependent. You either have to divide pts between Athletics and Shield, or you raise riding a bit, and buy an armoured horse.

Good Athletics skill [4+] allows warriors wearing lighter armour to run instead of walking; a skirmisher with leather and 2hd sword is a decent cavalry buster. Just let them charge you, and sidestep, while doing a side-slash. Goodbye, knights.

Two-handed wpn specialists are weak to archers; pack a shield along for good measure, and a lighter weapon too - such as a knife.
You can't raise a shield without a 1hd melee weapon.
Putting a shield in, alone, is a waste of space and weight.

...

Mixed observations.

In-game mechanics can mix with consistent role-playing, to produce satisfying yet effective char types.
 
Not hard coding is great. You can roleplay if that suits you.

Meanwhile, I like turning my priest dude into a melee knight, calling him da holy G for kicks.

No matter which type of character you play, I find investing in riding skills and a fast horse a must. They don't call it mount and blade for nothing.
 
Where would bishop Oddo (a priest who fought under William the Conqueror) have got if priests were magically unable to pick up weapons? I prefer simulation to arbitrary hardcoding.
 
I don't believe the game need's any huge tweak's , but a weapon mod or have armagan make the weapon's need more requirement's to be used properly would be good , for strength and stuff that is. I mean a priest is not really going to be that strong , so he should have to get his strength up alot.

Right now it only take's a few levels to get to 13 strength , and that's the highest strength requirement for a weapon.

Example would be the Polehammer , That thing would require huge strength to use.
 
I'd like to see a good bit of freedom with adding bonuses and restrictions on items. One example that would probalby be hard to script is lance rests on later plate armor. They would give an increase to couched lance damage, which is not something normally associated with armor. It would also be nice to make certain bits of equipment incompatible, as it seems like it would be pretty difficult to shoot a bow while wearing mitten style gauntlets.
 
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