United European States, possible or not?

[Mage246]

You mean like the Timurid dynasty or the Umayyad Caliphate?

There are no known Pan-Turkic states in known or mainstream history. All of the Turkic states were multi-cultural the last one being Ottoman State widely known as Ottoman Empire.



My prediction is that European Union will go downhill unless a new social and economic policy is "invented". Because the rest of the world is catching up with Europe after some hundred years of European supremacy. This will mean the old rules will no longer work for Europe or America.

Also, Europe will eventually have to work out its "multi-cultural" ~ "us and them" ~ "clash of civilizations" "European culture is being threatened" phobia or it's up for a rude awakening in the near future because its metropolis culture, I think, is starting to fail.

Oh for ****'s sake-

The reason why many states are doing well is because they aren't up to the EU's standards. And they take advantage of the lower wages and standards implied by that. Countries that fail to meet the EU's standard are far more threatening to the EU than those that do.

 

[Wellenbrecher]

You mean like the Timurid dynasty or the Umayyad Caliphate?

There are no known Pan-Turkic states in known or mainstream history. All of the Turkic states were multi-cultural the last one being Ottoman State widely known as Ottoman Empire.



My prediction is that European Union will go downhill unless a new social and economic policy is "invented". Because the rest of the world is catching up with Europe after some hundred years of European supremacy. This will mean the old rules will no longer work for Europe or America.

Also, Europe will eventually have to work out its "multi-cultural" ~ "us and them" ~ "clash of civilizations" "European culture is being threatened" phobia or it's up for a rude awakening in the near future because its metropolis culture, I think, is starting to fail.

You could've saved so much time just writing:
"Europe is afraid of us Turks and is oppressing us and our history."

We all read it that way anyhow.

 

[Delora Filth]

Americans were cutting each other's heads off only 150 years ago, and that's half the age of the nation itself. Americans were killing Vietnamese civilians by droves less than half a century ago, yet Vietnamese and American culture is highly integrated and friendly. Same goes for the Japanese, except even more strongly in both directions, we nuked them and now our cultures mutually adore each other.

War isn't relevant if no one currently alive participated in it.

Difference is, over here we've been fighting each other on and off for about two millennia.

 

[Hengwulf]

If the EU would be simply a council of nations, each with representatives to argue their needs and proposals I would vote yes. A similar structure like the UN. Whilst that organisation doesn't have as much direct control as a EU or even UES, it does leave countries in their right to govern themselves and fix their own economies. This already happened before like the Schengen, TREVI or ECSC treaties. But to Unite all of Europe under a federal government would be a horrible idea. It only seems nice right now because we learned that we can't have a monetary union without that kind of central government. Hence the choice we face, leave the Euro or become something like a United European States.

 

[Delora Filth]

Won't happen. We've all seen how well the already existing United States works.

 

[Mad Vader]

For one thing, the US is a good example how fiscal unions can work across different economies. I'm sure some US states would benefit from their own currencies and monetary policies, but they don't even contemplate it. Why?

 

[Duh]

Americans were cutting each other's heads off only 150 years ago, and that's half the age of the nation itself. Americans were killing Vietnamese civilians by droves less than half a century ago, yet Vietnamese and American culture is highly integrated and friendly. Same goes for the Japanese, except even more strongly in both directions, we nuked them and now our cultures mutually adore each other.

War isn't relevant if no one currently alive participated in it.

Difference is, over here we've been fighting each other on and off for about two millennia.

You do know that americans and europeans share that history?

Won't happen. We've all seen how well the already existing United States works.

Which is also why we dont do capitalism or religion over here in our good ol' Nationstates.

 

[Swordmaster]

Given that even EU is a very very young entity, such a thing would need at least a century or more of good old cultural and economical exchange, not to mention the relative overall stability across all countries that is going to define it.

 

[Delora Filth]

Americans were cutting each other's heads off only 150 years ago, and that's half the age of the nation itself. Americans were killing Vietnamese civilians by droves less than half a century ago, yet Vietnamese and American culture is highly integrated and friendly. Same goes for the Japanese, except even more strongly in both directions, we nuked them and now our cultures mutually adore each other.

War isn't relevant if no one currently alive participated in it.

Difference is, over here we've been fighting each other on and off for about two millennia.

You do know that americans and europeans share that history?

Yes, but having removed themselves halfway across the globe they aren't as prone to digging up all those old hatreds at any given opportunity as we who still live a few miles from the people we've fought with for centuries.

 

[Mad Vader]

The world now changes very quickly, and the institutions must follow or they will be abandoned. There's no use in waiting for decades or centuries for new institutions to take hold.
The EU must show the ability to reform itself in face of challenges, whether it's the recession or narrow-minded isolationists clamoring for its abandonment. So far, the veto power of each state and the unhelpful national referendums undermined the speed of decision-making, but I have trust in our political elites to find undemocratic loopholes for our benefit. Low-information voters deserve no less.

 

[Duh]

Americans were cutting each other's heads off only 150 years ago, and that's half the age of the nation itself. Americans were killing Vietnamese civilians by droves less than half a century ago, yet Vietnamese and American culture is highly integrated and friendly. Same goes for the Japanese, except even more strongly in both directions, we nuked them and now our cultures mutually adore each other.

War isn't relevant if no one currently alive participated in it.

Difference is, over here we've been fighting each other on and off for about two millennia.

You do know that americans and europeans share that history?

Yes, but having removed themselves halfway across the globe they aren't as prone to digging up all those old hatreds at any given opportunity as we who still live a few miles from the people we've fought with for centuries.

The US politics are heavily influenced by perceived (outside) threats. They can dig up old and create new hatred very easily. And do you really think that common folks in the EU consider grievances beyond the 200 year period of grievances, which the US has experienced?

 

[Vermillion_Hawk]

Yes, but having removed themselves halfway across the globe they aren't as prone to digging up all those old hatreds at any given opportunity as we who still live a few miles from the people we've fought with for centuries.

You're forgetting that Americans have their own rivalries within the country. North and South are still very prominently divided socially.

 

[Sir Saladin]

For one thing, the US is a good example how fiscal unions can work across different economies. I'm sure some US states would benefit from their own currencies and monetary policies, but they don't even contemplate it. Why?

No state would benefit from cutting itself off from the federal government and the states were formed by the U.S. federal government. Gaining statehood was something U.S. territories wanted because there was no downside to it. This is nothing like a bunch of separate countries with their own established governments and economies trying to merge into one big cluster****.

 

[Delora Filth]

The US politics are heavily influenced by perceived (outside) threats. They can dig up old and create new hatred very easily. And do you really think that common folks in the EU consider grievances beyond the 200 year period of grievances, which the US has experienced?

Of course. Though the people of the U.S. seem far more inclined to direct it towards their own historical adversaries. (Mainly Mexico, South v/s North and vice versa, and to some degree Canada. Which I assume is a remnant from the old colonial wars and revolution.) The various nationality-stocks are, to my knowledge, not all too hostile to their more ancestral "enemies" from back here.

And my point is still relevant because I was answering this.

War isn't relevant if no one currently alive participated in it.

Which is still not true in the U.S. But even less so in Europe.

 

[Wellenbrecher]

unhelpful national referendums

One of the big points that makes a lot of folk I know dislike the EU, is the lack of any referendum whatsoever in this country. Personally I envy the Irish for being able to say "**** off" to that abortion of a EU constitution. Even though the government over there simply kept repeating the referendum till it passed, the thought of being able to do so is nice.

The idea over here is that by electing a certain party we automatically are also ok with whatever they decide in Brussels. Which is ludicrous and condescending as all hell, but unfortunately our constitution does not allow a referendum on a national level.
****, when one of the two coalition parties let its members vote on whether or not to actually join the government, some argued that doing so was against the constitution... >.>
Which, going by technicalities, it funnily enough actually is IIRC.

Also led to a rather hilarious interview with the chairman of the SPD, Sigmar Gabriel, by a presenter of the most prestigious news show of the country.

 

[ancalimon]

You mean like the Timurid dynasty or the Umayyad Caliphate?

There are no known Pan-Turkic states in known or mainstream history. All of the Turkic states were multi-cultural the last one being Ottoman State widely known as Ottoman Empire.



My prediction is that European Union will go downhill unless a new social and economic policy is "invented". Because the rest of the world is catching up with Europe after some hundred years of European supremacy. This will mean the old rules will no longer work for Europe or America.

Also, Europe will eventually have to work out its "multi-cultural" ~ "us and them" ~ "clash of civilizations" "European culture is being threatened" phobia or it's up for a rude awakening in the near future because its metropolis culture, I think, is starting to fail.

Oh for ****'s sake-

The reason why many states are doing well is because they aren't up to the EU's standards. And they take advantage of the lower wages and standards implied by that. Countries that fail to meet the EU's standard are far more threatening to the EU than those that do.

No. The reason so many states are doing well is because for a long time now most of the world is not the colony of Europe and Russia no longer have absolute control over Central Asia.
The reason Europe did well is because they enslaved most of the word with their religious and military power and earned so much money from these slaves to the point it's still greatly effecting the lives of Europeans in a very positive way. Europeans owe much to their ancestors who enslaved most of the word for being better off. Since religion is becoming irrelevant among European youth and there are no longer colonies (even though that is open to debate) there is nothing stopping these countries from improving themselves once again. Of course the racism and nationalism planted in those countries by the colonial countries still effect them gravely to the point that many of these countries are still in turmoil, but I'm sure they will improve in the near future.  Over time European countries won't be able to sell as much goods as they do now to foreign countries.

 

[Wellenbrecher]

That was... utterly unrelated to the topic and to what Mage or you said before.

 

[ancalimon]

That was... utterly unrelated to the topic and to what Mage or you said before.

That is related because: The reason European Union will not work is because European countries no longer have colonies. Developing countries have low wage standards because they need to improve their infrastructure by making its citizens work for less money. They also need to protect their territorial integrity.

Simply put, golden ages end and Europe is no exception. It's just taking too long for Europe thanks to Christ and the former military might of Europe.

 

[Wellenbrecher]

Yeah, no.
I will not get sucked into this cesspool of moronic nonsense again.

Bye.

 

[Harkon Haakonson]