MP Unbalanced two handed cavalry. ("World Destroyer")

[MiguelSnake]

Hi, I'm finding a lot of people playing the same class over and over. They instakill almost every unit, and can be handled with almost no skill.
They can be stopped by cavalry with spears (not always), but on the hands of an skilled player, the situation is really hard to counter.

It mainly happens with Empire and Khuzait, damage between 120-180 while static, just with slashes. As the horses do strange things with reach and damage, it is always applying the maximum damage.

In our group we call this class the "Destroyer of worlds" or World Destroyer.


Specimen one:

Specimen two:

Whatever is affecting cavalry with its range and damage formula, is specially broken for those guys. They can be defeated, sure (throwing weapons or pikes...), but right now they are extremely unbalanced.

 

[Charlini]

Agreed

 

[Genel]

Not to even mention that Horses which are nearly unstoppable

 

[flavberg]

The glaives and menavlions clearly need some attention, but it's generally easy to counter them with archers and cavalry. I agree, however, they are laserblades.

 

[Shemaforash]

One of the absolutely strongest classes in casual skirmish

 

[VindictiV]

Changes that need to happen to balance cavalry:

1. Horse riders have too much reach with spears, lances and slashing polearms and their damage is just ridiculous even when barely moving and almost stopped.
2. While couching, they still have too much maneuverability. Also when a couch is initiated say on the right side, they shouldn't be able to rapidly move the lance on the left side by like a 60-70 degree angle.
3. Infantry spears should deal MUCH more damage to cavalry when they are being reared by a frontal stab and the frontal stab should be achievable at a wider angle.
4. Unhorsed riders should faceplant for much longer (right now they can still use their shield to protect themselves while laying on the ground).
5. Unhorsed riders fly off into the distance safely out of reach of the person that killed their horse. They should fall directly on the ground, like the way it was in warband, so they are vulnerable to the person killing their horse.
6. Cavalry should knockdown their teamates too. At the moment it's too easy to interrupt a duel by simply running in the middle of 2 ppl fighting, automatically knocking down the opponent while your teamate is safely moved aside magically giving him plenty of time to hit the opponent still laying on the ground. This happens on gamemodes with friendly fire turned ON.

Also, who thought it was a good idea to make it so somebody that is bumped by a horse is knocked down for like 3 second but somebody unhorsed only stays half a sec on the ground??!!

 

[Gianni Tsunami]

Fully agree. They are even very strong in siege, it does not matter if you are in a corner and half a dozen infantry are around swinging at you just spam left swing/right swing and you're going to get some kills, especially when fighting battania or aserai.

 

[Kripaz]

This. I really can't see any reason NOT to pick these classes when playing skirmish. Courser makes Menavlion infantry completely useless.

 

[King Irelor]

+1
At the moment it is madness to try to fight against menavlions/glaive wielding cavalry. It has made skirmish games not fun for me or my friends, who don't mind fighting cavalry but can only do so much about being 1 hit directly through 40 armor, with extreme reach, at low speeds.

 

[Stovee]

Yup. Needs a nerf. The only time I personally can counter cav is when I'm able to pick menavlion and have a couple of pila with me

 

[Tork789]

Okay, nerf them and then what? They become useless. What's the point of going shieldless on a horse if you can't even oneshot anybody?

They are easily countered with any ranged weapon, other cavalry and spears/pikes. You only get in trouble if they sneak up on you or if you stand close to them and decide not to block, and blocking their weapons is very easy. It's a typical high risk - high reward scenario.

 

[VindictiV]

Okay, nerf them and then what? They become useless. What's the point of going shieldless on a horse if you can't even oneshot anybody?

They are easily countered with any ranged weapon, other cavalry and spears/pikes. You only get in trouble if they sneak up on you or if you stand close to them and decide not to block, and blocking their weapons is very easy. It's a typical high risk - high reward scenario.

Where's the risk when, unlike in warband, rearing a horse doesn't mean it's dead anymore? Horses are much tankier and when it runs full speed speed into a spear stab, it's stopped only long enough for the spear user to stab you a second time for a total of about 60-70 damage out of 200hp that the horse has because spamming W makes the horse "restart" instantly and runs away. If you are unhorse, you stay barely a single second on the ground, unlike the people that you bump/knockdown which are stuck laying on the ground for a good 3 sec. Also, nobody goes shieldless on a horse as couching a spear/lance still allows you to use a shield. Cav is actually the safest class in the game atm.

 

[Tork789]

Where's the risk when, unlike in warband, rearing a horse doesn't mean it's dead anymore?

That's just not true and you should know that. As for the risks I've mentioned them: you are shieldless, you can get lanced easily, you can get stopped and after stop there's enough time to stab you and if you got stopped around more than 1 enemy there's a high chance of you dying right there. There's plenty of risk involved.

 

[Gianni Tsunami]

Raising the cost of cav is something i'd like to see tested. Right now it's pretty easy to get the lancer class for instance and keep it for the entirety of the game ( i only play siege). Even if i die a couple times in a row with no kills. I've noticed players are adjusting to the lone cav LUBU destruction with pikes/archers more but once you have several cav charging together and swinging laser glaives it seems to get pretty ridiculous.

 

[VindictiV]

That's just not true and you should know that. As for the risks I've mentioned them: you are shieldless, you can get lanced easily, you can get stopped and after stop there's enough time to stab you and if you got stopped around more than 1 enemy there's a high chance of you dying right there. There's plenty of risk involved.

• you are shieldless => that's your own choice. All cavs have access to shields.
• you can get lanced easily => it's like saying a melee class is risky because it can get melee'd. Yes you can get lanced but so can be everybody else. Infantry are even more at risk.
• you can get stopped and after stop there's enough time to stab you => that's the ONLY counter cavalry has. It's there for a reason : BALANCE. Also, a single spearmen can deal maximum 50-70 damage to the horse before the cav simply runs away. A Horse has 200hp, so that's not even half your horse hp pool.
• if you got stopped around more than 1 enemy there's a high chance of you dying right there => you took the risk of charging multiple people, the infantry didn't throw themselves as a pack against you. That's like complaining you die from doing a 1vX when you decided to charge them. Also, even if your horse is reared, you simply raise your shield and gallop away one second after being stopped. It's much faster than in warband and the horses are tankier.

The riskier class atm is 2hander : they can't protect themselves from projectiles nor couched lances. A risky class is most definitly NOT cavalry.

 

[Tork789]

• you are shieldless => that's your own choice. All cavs have access to shields.
• you can get lanced easily => it's like saying a melee class is risky because it can get melee'd. Yes you can get lanced but so can be everybody else. Infantry are even more at risked.
• you can get stopped and after stop there's enough time to stab you => that's the ONLY counter cavalry has. It's there for a reason : BALANCE. Also, a single spearmen can deal maximum 50-70 damage to the horse before the cav simply runs away. A Horse has 200hp, so that's not even half your horse' hp pool.
• if you got stopped around more than 1 enemy there's a high chance of you dying right there => you took the risk of charging multiple people, the infantry didn't throw themselves as a pack against you. That's like complaining you die from doing a 1vX when you decided to charge them. Also, even if your horse is reared, you simply raise your shield and gallop away one second after being stopped. It's much faster than in warband and the horses are tankier.

The riskier class atm is 2hander : they can't protect themselves from projectiles nor couched lances. A risky class is most definitly NOT cavalry.

I don't get it. So if I take a 2hander cav it's my choice and the class itself isn't risky, but if I take 2hander inf it's somehow not my choice anymore and the class is risky now?

 

[Sir Edwards]

As someone who routinely plays with people with thousands of hours in warband, the two handed glavie class cav are unstoppable you can literally just hug infantry and if they miss one block after hitting you 4 or 5 times you one shot them and ride off. It is made worse by the fact that menavlion cav can die and respawn like it never happened. The gold amount needs to be changed for a lot of Empire classes like legionaire and palantine guard but the 2h Glaive cav needs a big nerf.

 

[VindictiV]

I don't get it. So if I take a 2hander cav it's my choice and the class itself isn't risky, but if I take 2hander inf it's somehow not my choice anymore and the class is risky now?

Nice fallacies there. I like how you COMPLETELY dismissed everything and cherry picked (OUT OF CONTEXT) my last sentence. I was answering the fact that you are saying cav is high risk but it's actually 2handers that are high risk high reward atm. Don't mix that with my counter arguments I put as bullet points. I think it's quite clear and evident. You said "cavs are shieldless" when YOU chose to not equip a shield as a cav when it is available.

 

[Tork789]

Nice fallacies there. I like how you COMPLETELY dismissed everything and cherry picked (OUT OF CONTEXT) my last sentence. I was answering the fact that you are saying cav is high risk but it's actually 2handers that are high risk high reward atm. Don't mix that with my counter arguments I put as bullet points. I think it's quite clear and evident. You said "cavs are shieldless" when YOU chose to not equip a shield as a cav when it is available.

Those fallacies are from your own logic though, it's not like I said something you didn't say yourself.

 

[VindictiV]

Those fallacies are from your own logic though, it's not like I said something you didn't say yourself.

Nice try ignoring 99% of my post. And no, 2handers do not have access to shields unlike cavalry. Your "point" makes no sense. So, unless you counter my arguments I listed previously, you have no counter arguments to the FACT that cav is OP at the moment.