Native Completed UNAC Map Testing Tournament - FINAL STANDINGS AND DISCUSSION

[sotamursu123]

Haeranar was visually appealing

tits.

Time to discuss the maps. Open/Mixed/Closed? Good/OK/****? Add to UNAC3/Delete from UNAC 3? Other feedback appreciated.

I'll go through how i think my maps worked out and top maps not made by me.


Haranaer: Open/Mixed
Aesthetics 5/5 (PYRAMIDS!1!1)
Balance 3/5
Fun 2/5

Still too dull tactical choices, but kind of works out as an open map. The addition of the tower didn't really bring anything new to it, other than a tower. The small adjustments i made to the ruins are barely noticeable it seems

Changes I'll make: Still going to adjust the ruins a bit, and possibly add some more ****.

New Port Assault sötömörs version: Closed
Aesthetics 5/5 (can't go wronk with TW original lel)
Balance 4/5 (even with loads of options, it's still an attacker/defender map)
Fun 5/5 (at least the leaders should have fun)

Just Port Assault with more use for cavalry, less use for camping houses, more ways of attacking the houses, and a new path to attack from. Also removing/moving unnecessary barriers that limited freedom of movement for no good reason. Also fixed one flower that was floating.

Changes I'll make: Some work on the borders of the map, possibly lowering the wall a bit to make it give slightly less cover from other places.

New Snowy Village sötömörs version: Open/Mixed
Aesthetics 3/5 (just ugly imo lel)
Balance 4/5 (stronger cav stomps the rest i guess)
Fun 3/5 (fkin lol'd when the edge of the map made us win D)

Just Snowy Village with the mountain climbing part removed, with a few additional trees and rocks to balance it out, and very slightly modified flags

Changes I'll make: Mark the borders of the map, some work on those rocks and trees near the border, better texturing

New Village sötömörs version: Closed
Aesthetics 4/5 (fked some of the original aesthetics)
Balance 2/5 (i think i actually prefer the original village over this one)
Fun 0/5 (i think i ruined the last bit of fun when i moved one flag outside)

Changes I'll make: Probably just gonna give up with this one



Swadian Town Closed
Aesthetics 4/5 (some parts are pretty ugly)
Balance 5/5 (pretty symmetrical map)
Fun 3/5 (calling on this map was pretty much non-existent)

Other than being very small, a very good map. The small size drags down the fun when you're calling, though, since when you see something happen, it's already too late to react on this map, most of the time.


Rock Port: Closed/Mixed
Aesthetics 4/5 (some parts are just ugly)
Balance 3/5 (not sure about all the flag spawns, but the dock spawn seemed to be at a disadvantage)
Fun 1/5 (calling on this map was pretty dull)

It's pretty hard to call things out on this map, with (for an example) multiple arches with pretty much nothing to recognize them from. Flag spawns shouldn't be in a place like that weird looking alley, since those kinds of areas are pretty much just deprived of any tactical decisions other than "go in together", imo.

 

[OurGloriousLeader]

Can we start using the Nord town they use in Euro land these days?  Where they cut the ladders/steps from the spawn areas.

Both communities already have a map like this, it's called sandiboush! The elevation was what made Nord Town interesting competitively, getting archers on both balconies was crossfire heaven. As a public map I can understand the frustration of 2000 crossbows camping but I think the extra ladders helped balance that for pushing them.

From my brief foray into NA maps, lack of elevation is already a common theme.

 

[Lagstro]

From my brief foray into NA maps, lack of elevation is already a common theme.

Pshhh, what are you talking about? Did you not see that little hill with a rock on open plains?

Spoiler

 

[OurGloriousLeader]

Pshhh, what are you talking about? Did you not see that little hill with a rock on open plains?

You can traverse that towering peak?!

 

[Gelden]

less elevation is better for pub play

 

[Arys]

I think we should have a poll or something to get better feedback on the maps we liked and didn't like.

 

[Juve]

Polls in threads never work for anything. Having team captains gather feedback from their team members and send a PM to the tournament organizers after each match would probably be the best way to go about it. Could even have a few different credentials for team captains to consider, like how Sota rated a few maps. The way Wily posted feedback was nice, too, and I'm sure he talked to some of the other wK members before posting.

 

[WilySly]

The way Wily posted feedback was nice, too, and I'm sure he talked to some of the other wK members before posting.

Yesss, good work, shill

 

[KoA John]

The way Wily posted feedback was nice, too, and I'm sure he talked to some of the other wK members before posting.

A likely story!

 

[WilySly]

So is there like a playoff or awards ceremony for this or something

 

[unicorn]

It'd be nice if someone from KoA or SF posted that score first

 

[KoA_Braveheart]

Sorry. I was waiting for someone with screens to post, but I'm pretty sure it was KoA 09 - 12 SF.

 

[Amaranth the Druid]

Sorry. I was waiting for someone with screens to post, but I'm pretty sure it was KoA 09 - 12 SF.

can confirm 12-9 . But idk who has screens

 

[unicorn]

Final standings, congrats to wK for winning Div A and Wappaw for winning Div B

Division A

Pos	Name	W	D	L	RW	RL	RD	Pts
1	West Knights	4	0	0	47	17	30	12
2	The Midnight Watchmen	2	0	2	30	32	-2	6
3	Honour Bound	1	0	3	3	16	-13	3
4	Rebels	0	0	4	1	16	-15	0

Division B

Pos	Name	W	D	L	RW	RL	RD	Pts
1	Wappaw	4	0	0	59	28	31	12
2	Strike Force	3	0	1	49	36	13	9
3	Knights of Avalon	2	0	2	51	35	16	6
4	Deathwatch	2	0	2	37	37	0	6
5	Made To Win	1	0	3	40	43	-3	3
6	Praetorians of Neapolis	0	0	4	7	64	-57	0

Map feedback compiled from this thread:

Spoiler: New Village - mostly negative

New Village is still too much like siege and too roof campy

I don't see how Village has improved.  At all.

The only way to improve this map is to take away the "seige" feel to it.  You could simply move the inside spawn, outside, opposite the other spawn (add ladders to get in the town) then place flag spawns in such a way to discourage camping.

The map is still this:

O.K. guys we can go in one of 4 entrances, which do you think the other team won't be camping?

tl;dr Village still needs a lot of work to be considered balanced and above all, fun

Felt like a game of Chutes and Ladders.

Get rid of new village pls.

Village da worst, plz ban

seems like the most important thing village needs is adding more ways the different entrances can support each other. Right now, there's basically two routes: main gate or back gate, with two smaller routes which are used to support the other routes (side roof ladder and barn door)... Xd

Tbh i'd vote no for this map neckst season, though.

I wasn't much of a fan of New Village, tbh mostly for the reasons others have listed it had a siege type feeling.

When it comes to a map like Village (New or old) it can't really meet the qualifications for a battle type map. I wouldn't say its unfair or unbalanced per say, just Idk, un-fun?

Just as new hills have been added to what was once open plains (now legacy plains), Village is very archer heavy, and huge changes would have to be made to it, to turn it into a map that is not a archer map. Having played on new port assault, I would say the same for that as well (just like old port assault) Even with changes, these maps are archer maps, unless it becomes a completely new map.

I guess the goal of all maps is to be both fun and balanced, closed and open maps should be accessible to all troop types. If a map feels like its pro archer or so on, it doesn't feel right to me.

Aesthetics 4/5 (fked some of the original aesthetics)
Balance 2/5 (i think i actually prefer the original village over this one)
Fun 0/5 (i think i ruined the last bit of fun when i moved one flag outside)

Changes I'll make: Probably just gonna give up with this one

Spoiler: Quagmire - mostly positive, need more feedback

Quagmire had some interesting playstyles, but it is a very balanced map. I feel like strategies could potentially get stale after people learn how to play the map in a month or two

I really liked Quagmire though. Plz keep.

I did like Quagmire, I think some interesting strategies could be played on that map, and it's fun to play on.

Spoiler: New Snowy Village - need more feedback

Unsure about that mysterious unknown 3rd flag spawn, but Snowy was pretty enjoyable. It could use a couple tweaks, but it is a huge improve over the old version

I did not like the flag that spawned right under beach house roof, its really OP and the playstyle of the map didn't seem to change much from the older version

Aesthetics 3/5 (just ugly imo lel)
Balance 4/5 (stronger cav stomps the rest i guess)
Fun 3/5 (fkin lol'd when the edge of the map made us win D)

Just Snowy Village with the mountain climbing part removed, with a few additional trees and rocks to balance it out, and very slightly modified flags

Changes I'll make: Mark the borders of the map, some work on those rocks and trees near the border, better texturing

Spoiler: New Port Assault - need more feedback

Aesthetics 5/5 (can't go wronk with TW original lel)
Balance 4/5 (even with loads of options, it's still an attacker/defender map)
Fun 5/5 (at least the leaders should have fun)

Just Port Assault with more use for cavalry, less use for camping houses, more ways of attacking the houses, and a new path to attack from. Also removing/moving unnecessary barriers that limited freedom of movement for no good reason. Also fixed one flower that was floating.

Changes I'll make: Some work on the borders of the map, possibly lowering the wall a bit to make it give slightly less cover from other places.

Spoiler: Rock Port - mostly negative, need more feedback

rock port is shiit

Rockport seems fine, I just think its too big for a 7v7

Aesthetics 4/5 (some parts are just ugly)
Balance 3/5 (not sure about all the flag spawns, but the dock spawn seemed to be at a disadvantage)
Fun 1/5 (calling on this map was pretty dull)

It's pretty hard to call things out on this map, with (for an example) multiple arches with pretty much nothing to recognize them from. Flag spawns shouldn't be in a place like that weird looking alley, since those kinds of areas are pretty much just deprived of any tactical decisions other than "go in together", imo.

Spoiler: Swadian Town - mostly positive

For the maps I'm no expert on native yet but I did like the instant action when playing Swadian town. Although I felt like it was too small and that it need some more to it.

swadian town is fun

Swadian town is good, only problem I noticed is that the spawn with access to ladder needs to be removed or the opposite side needs to be able to shoot onto the flag aswell, that half of the map isn't very balanced when compared to the rest of the map

I think the swadian town is great, that ladder  is good for giving cover for fights in the center, but otherwise its pretty risky leaving people exposed there without proper support.

Aesthetics 4/5 (some parts are pretty ugly)
Balance 5/5 (pretty symmetrical map)
Fun 3/5 (calling on this map was pretty much non-existent)

Other than being very small, a very good map. The small size drags down the fun when you're calling, though, since when you see something happen, it's already too late to react on this map, most of the time.

Spoiler: Haranaer - mixed feelings, needs revisions

Haeranar? might as well be Open Desert

Haeranar was visually appealing, but I feel like it needs more points of interest. I feel like it has a lot of potential, so good job to whoever made it. Feels balanced, although I heard of some meta for the side that gets the little circle ruins and how archers are extremely well covered there. A member of KoA kept telling us how OP it was. That might need to be looked into since it could make the map one-sided.

could use a few more points of interest. I would really like to see the community transition away from using Open Plains-esque maps as the template for open maps. "Open" doesn't have to mean "devoid of anything except rocks and bushes." Hara could benefit from a wall, larger piles of debris, etc. I think Sota did a good job with the concept, I would just like to see an alternative to the "open map, all cav" type of maps that have become prevalent lately.

Aesthetics 5/5 (PYRAMIDS!1!1)
Balance 3/5
Fun 2/5

Still too dull tactical choices, but kind of works out as an open map. The addition of the tower didn't really bring anything new to it, other than a tower. The small adjustments i made to the ruins are barely noticeable it seems

Changes I'll make: Still going to adjust the ruins a bit, and possibly add some more ****.

Spoiler: Incursion - mixed feelings, need more feedback

Incursion does play pretty weird, it feels like a bunch of miniature maps in a giant one. Houses feel like portassault/nordtown, but step out of it and you are transported into open plains/desert town. It just doesn't feel realistic I suppose

As for Incursion, I didn't care for it much. Completely flat map with no points of interest, roofs to shoot off of, and lack of any aesthetically pleasing things, I found it very dull. Feels balanced how it is right now, but no fun to play on.

I'd like to play this map competitively a few more times before providing real feedback. For first impressions, I thought this was a really great map. Lots of different angles, lots of potential strategies, and a good mix of open and closed map play. I think that what some are citing as negative points (lack of elevation, no houses to camp in) are actually strong benefits, as I think these components are really what detract from the fun and competitiveness of maps like Nord Town and Port Assault.

Let me know if I missed your post. Will keep adding feedback posted here for the next few days then send this to UNAC admins and/or post in a relevant UNAC map discussion thread.

 

[The_Troubadour]

I will give my thoughts.
New Village- Wayyyyyyy too one-sided. Extremely unbalanced for the team that has outside spawn. Prehaps instead, make teams spawn on opposite sides of the village rather than one already inside and the other out. That would need further testing, though.

Quagmire- I liked this map a lot. I felt it was pretty balanced overall and it was visually appealing.

New Snowy Village- Felt pretty fair. I liked the change that made the hills less steep, so I feel that it made the map something that we could play in UNAC.

New Port Assault- I liked this map overall, minus one thing. When you spawn on the docks, the other team can rush up a house and put archers on the roof, and I feel since it is hard to access, I feel it gives the other spawn a big advantage. I'd like to know what others think about this.

Rock Port- I don't really care for it, except I am not sure why.

Swadian Town- Felt pretty balanced, minus the one spawn that gets the ledge since the ledge in the other spawn can't get shots on the archer up there. Otherwise, great map.

I already gave input on Hara and Incursion.

 

[Amaranth the Druid]

New Village
Pretty bad map, not just this version but Village itself has so many problems to address, one would be better off designing a new map entirely.

Quagmire
Interesting map, feels a little plain on the village side. But i enjoyed playing with the juxtaposition of the Swamp vs the Open area.
Can't say for sure how this map will play balance wise, needs to be scrimmed on to get a feel for actual strats using the components given.
Have a feel that there will be a single superior way to play out this map and will just be a contest to see who does it better.

New Snowy Village
Quite enjoyed this map, it is sooooo much better then the original, the flattening of the hill and the added trees and flattening of the mountain was quite good. Unfortunatly the battle we had was cut short, so I didn't get a good feel of it. However just from what i saw it will be an interesting open map to play out.

Did not get a chance to try out Rock Port, New Port Assault or Swadian town, but i looked at both in server Swadian town definitely looks fun, would love to try it out soon.

Haranaer
The tower was not used at all just due to the fact of it being Cav dominated and trying to get an archer from either spawn into there would be too risky. seemed to be played out in 2 ways, either all Cav or Cav and a few archers. the archers would hold up in the same 2 places. could use a bit more added to make it interesting. That being said it was still a decent map to play on.

Incursion
Very ugly map to look at, like VERY ugly. Moving to the Windmill area was a lot more fun then going into the town. The Town area needs some major work. I feel its just extremely boring, with teams holding up in houses.  The lack of elevation was no problem for me, but the boring nature of the mid could use some rework.

 

[Catholic]

I like New Snowy Village. Perhaps add one or two more buildings to reduce that huge former-mountain that is now a clearing, or add some trees there to make it more strategic and less bland, but even without those changes I'd add it.

I wasn't a fan of New Port Assault. Didn't feel particularly different from the old Port Assault and I honestly prefer the POM Port Assault to it.

Rock Port was good, if a bit bland.

Swadian Town was also good. There were quite a few strategic options to it.

Haranaer is a solid alternative to a map like Open Plains. Archers and infantry are quite viable (and, frankly, necessary) while still being a cav-dominated map. I like it and would include it.