UN Peacebuilding: Can it work?

[Triakor]

Libians do not pay any taxes, they have access to free education and health services. Libya does not have any foreign debts. Major UN countries are responsible for 80% of the guns and arms sold worldwide. UN wants peace? it should stop selling guns / financing terrorism in the first place. Sarkozy was sucking Gaddafi's balls a few years back trying to make him allow foreign investors in Libya, now he is attacking him. What did UN do when US went in Iraq and killed civilians due to some bogus claim about WoMD and actually arrested and executed Saddam. What did UN do then. NOTHING. I don't like Saddam and if Iraqians overthrew and executed him, I wouldn't say anything, but coming from the other side of the world and meddling with other people's problems while killing millions of such people cannot be justified. Politics = Hypocracy. UN = Administrative wing of corporate terrorism. Peace = War.           

 

[mor2]

US went in Iraq and killed civilians due to some bogus claim about WoMD and actually arrested and executed Saddam. What did UN do then. NOTHING. I don't like Saddam and if Iraqians overthrew and executed him, I wouldn't say anything, but coming from the other side of the world and meddling with other people's problems while killing millions of such people cannot be justified.

millions? and they went to Iraq because Iraq backed on its surrender agreements after starting a few wars and using WMD's on its own population and loosing.

What did UN do when US went in Iraq and killed civilians

On that scale and with all the circumstances in mind, I'd say this was the most clean war in history.

also Libian "free education and health services" yeah...  and stop selling guns? i'd say that supply and demand always fix that problem.

 

[rejenorst]

US went in Iraq and killed civilians due to some bogus claim about WoMD and actually arrested and executed Saddam. What did UN do then. NOTHING. I don't like Saddam and if Iraqians overthrew and executed him, I wouldn't say anything, but coming from the other side of the world and meddling with other people's problems while killing millions of such people cannot be justified.

millions? and they went to Iraq because Iraq backed on its surrender agreements after starting a few wars and using WMD's on its own population and loosing.

What did UN do when US went in Iraq and killed civilians

On that scale and with all the circumstances in mind, I'd say this was the most clean war in history.

also Libian "free education and health services" yeah...  and stop selling guns? i'd say that supply and demand always fix that problem.

Not sure what is that your trying to say here.

 

[mor2]

you'll have to be more specific, which part?

 

[rejenorst]

millions? and they went to Iraq because Iraq backed on its surrender agreements after starting a few wars and using WMD's on its own population and loosing.

I don't quite get this, your saying that the invasion of Iraq was due to breach of resolution 1441? If yes, then I understand, but not sure how this ties in with Saddam starting new wars. Are you talking about the first invasion during the 1990's?

On that scale and with all the circumstances in mind, I'd say this was the most clean war in history.
also Libian "free education and health services" yeah...  and stop selling guns? i'd say that supply and demand always fix that problem.

What do mean cleanest war ever? Are you being sarcastic in this? (Can't tell.)

 

[mor2]

Yeah, I was speaking about the first Iraq war, because everything needs to be placed in context, they didnt invaded only because some supposed WMD's. But because Sadam was a belligerent bad boy, trying to improve his nation monetary balance by taking out one of his biggest debt owners, gaining its oil fields and as bonus driving oil prices up and he did used those WMD's even on his own population.

you know like  gaddafi air strikes (that were supposedly against unarmed protesters and killed what 20 people?) and everyone filed up to support an action agsint him, saying that he is crazy...  so similarly sadam attacked his own people only he used chemical weapons on a residential area killing a few thousands (this was defined as genocide) but hey **** that... 
Besides Sadam had every opportunity to stand by his commitments (by the surrender agreement etc) and prove he is not back to his old ways, instead he choose to give the finger. (similar like Germany did before WW2, only they had a better run with it).


as for the latter part, like you said there are no clean wars (crime fighting etc), which is great point that many MANY people tend to forget. I have no problem with those who are against all wars but those who are cherry picking trying to smear the way it was conducted, are full of it. in my opinion, compared to any other conflict on ever remotely similar scale and circumstances this one was the cleanest one by far, I have ever learned about.

was edited.

 

[rejenorst]

here's the kicker, we don't actually know for certain if Gaddafi used airstrikes against protesters.
We know for certain he used them against a rebel uprising and we know for certain the media presented the story that airstrikes had been used prior to the rebel uprising (while things were still a protest). But due to an initial media blackout during the early days we have no solid evidence.

the Russian military claims that the airstrikes on protesters did not happen:

http://rt.com/news/airstrikes-libya-russian-military/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TncgsS0FDWg&feature=related

I am inclined to believe them. We do know however that "force" was used.

In addition we were told on a number of ocassions that Gaddafi was rumored to have left the country. Those rumors proved false.

In fact here's a few variation of that false rumor:
http://www.liquida.com/article/17650352/venezuela-libya-tripoli/
http://article.wn.com/view/2011/02/24/Oil_Prices_Plummet_on_Rumors_That_Qaddafi_Shot/
http://article.wn.com/view/2011/03/08/As_Qaddafi_loyalists_strike_back_rumors_circulate_that_he_co/

 

[Radalan]

you know like  gaddafi air strikes (that were supposedly against unarmed protesters and killed what 20 people?)

Did you just try to come up with as small of a number as you possibly could?

 

[mor2]

Actually I think I exaggerated with this one(I doubt there were 10 dead or that they were anything less than armed man who barricaded themselves and kept the security forces at bay...  If you can find the link for that attack that started the ball rolling, point me to it...

here's the kicker, we don't actually know for certain if Gaddafi used airstrikes against protesters.
We know for certain he used them against a rebel uprising and we know for certain the media presented the story that airstrikes had been used prior to the rebel uprising (while things were still a protest). But due to an initial media blackout during the early days we have no solid evidence.

the Russian military claims that the airstrikes on protesters did not happen:

http://rt.com/news/airstrikes-libya-russian-military/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TncgsS0FDWg&feature=related

I am inclined to believe them. We do know however that "force" was used.

Exactly my point, But according to popular "opinion", helping the rebels is justified and good because gaddafi is crazy. while USA are just crazy gun loving rednecks who like to shoot everything that moves and make up excuses to take out that Iraqy oil (btw, the got none of that iraqy oil, China and russia companies did).

 

[Amagic]

Oil again. I just wish we ran out of that **** already. People shouldn't die for some black river of **** somewhere below ground.

Yes, Because history teach us that before we refined the process of oil destining, people never died for some **** bellow ground mainly called resources and the such.

Just proves we just can't get things right.

It is a bit ironic how organizations like the Police or the Fire Department value human life over any property of any value. But the government that controls them values oil over thousands of lives.

 

[Cyborg Eastern European]

That's not the government, that's the folks running it.

 

[Almalexia]

That's not the government, that's the folks running it.

...The government is defined by those that run it. I don't even know what you are thinking.

I wouldn't say anything, but coming from the other side of the world and meddling with other people's problems while killing millions of such people cannot be justified.     

You keep throwing around that number. I don't think it means what you think it means.

 

[Cyborg Eastern European]

...I don't even know what you are thinking.

Usually? Nothing. Makes head hurt.