Um..the so called "Road Map" doesn't actually mention any new content....

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Can you explain further when you say "disorganized during the entirety of development"? I'm curious what you mean - (i'm not attacking you). I genuinely would like to know what you mean in more detail.
Armagan has basically "banished" one of the core concepts of game development logistics used throughout the world, which is called Deadlines. Development Deadlines are what makes games meet a "finished" state basically. BL has been developed without any Deadlines (or they did some but much less than what's needed), they've re-made the engine thrice if I'm not mistaken (meaning, engine was ready, development ongoing, scrap engine, restart development, this happened twice, so we are on the "third engine" at this point).

This is disorganization, logistic one, but it still is. To me, who have a bachelor on Game Development and Design, this is almost heresy, I know how fundamental such "tools" are for a game to get completed, but Armagan has come from a more "amateur" background, and is basically an independent developer, they are not tied to publishers, so he can do whatever he feels like, and it seems to be working, but with very predictable issues that I've said would come to pass back in 2014 or even earlier, can't honestly remember when I've said this the first time.

I do, however, take my hat off to them because they've at least managed to bring the game into EA before 2025, because honestly, the last engine reset they've done I was sure they would do at least 2 more before the game would reach a playable state.

If you want to learn further I can explain why Deadlines are so quintessential. It's that the topic is a little monster on itself, too much to explain.
 
BTW, roadmaps for development do not require dates. There's a reason why they call it "roadmap", have you ever seen a road map that has dates on it? Nope, yeah, pretty self explanatory.

They could point out when they want a thing to be done, but it's not a deadline. Also, they don't need to expose every single detail on a road map,

This is a really ignorant comment. I’ve already covered this at length. Poor communication by TW is largely what has caused concern esp where it comes to “roadmap.” Roadmaps by definition require a series of milestones and / or dates. What we see is a list of priorities. A quick use of google could explain to you the difference.

Do you mean a literal paper road map? Even then if I know mileage and average speed, I can tell you how long it’s going to take to get there. And with experience I’d be even more accurate. Do you know how long it drives to work in the morning?

If you don’t have definable milestones and achievable objectives, then you don’t have a plan. They are called “milestones” for a reason. Without them you won’t know how far you’ve gone and how far you have to go.
 
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This is a really ignorant comment. I’ve already covered this at length. Poor communication by TW is largely what has caused concern esp where it comes to “roadmap.” Roadmaps by definition require a series of milestones and / or dates. What we see a list of priorities. A quick use of google could explain to you the difference.

Do you mean a literal paper road map? Even then if I know mileage and average speed, I can tell you how long it’s going to take to get there. And with experience I’d be even more accurate. Do you know how long it drives to work in the morning?
no, that simply became the industry's standard, by repetition, like a Meme, but road maps do not require anything but clear objectives that can be shown as simple guidelines, they are not required to point out every single detail on it. It's your belief that they are a thing that's getting in the way here, not the terminology nor the actual thing per say.

I was doing development project road maps since 2007 in University, and they did not look like that. Some companies then, much later, around 2010's+ started doing more detailed road maps, then others started copying that model, but wikipedia isn't your reliable source of information for these things.
 
This is a really ignorant comment. I’ve already covered this at length. Poor communication by TW is largely what has caused concern esp where it comes to “roadmap.” Roadmaps by definition require a series of milestones and / or dates. What we see a list of priorities. A quick use of google could explain to you the difference.

Do you mean a literal paper road map? Even then if I know mileage and average speed, I can tell you how long it’s going to take to get there. And with experience I’d be even more accurate. Do you know how long it drives to work in the morning?

If you don’t have don’t have definable milestones and achievable objectives, then you don’t have a plan. They are called “milestones” for a reason. Without them you won’t know how far you’ve gone and how far you have to go.
Here kid:
0*TVFg2UtZDdN_I667.png


Since you are so akin to "researches on google", google this:
Dunning-Kruger effect
have a good read, :*
 
Project Management and roadmaps predate computers. They are not memes. Hence the terminology “roadmap” “milestones.” If you don’t know what a roadmap is then I’m sorry brother but you’ve been doing it wrong.

What is a development roadmap?

Development roadmaps outline the initiatives, epics and features in the engineering pipeline. Similar to technology and IT roadmaps, development roadmaps visualize the key technical objectives in the dev workflow.

A strategic roadmap is a time-based plan that defines where a business is, where it wants to go, and how to get it there. It is a visual representation that organizes and presents important information related to future plans. Strategic roadmaps are a common approach to planning.
A strategic roadmap is a time-based plan that defines where a business is, where it wants to go, and how to get it there. It is a visual representation that organizes and presents important information related to future plans. Strategic roadmaps are a common approach to planning.
 
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Project Management and roadmaps predate computers. They are not memes. Hence the terminology “roadmap” “milestones.” If you don’t know what a roadmap is then I’m sorry brother but you’ve been doing it wrong.

What is a development roadmap?

Development roadmaps outline the initiatives, epics and features in the engineering pipeline. Similar to technology and IT roadmaps, development roadmaps visualize the key technical objectives in the dev workflow.

A strategic roadmap is a time-based plan that defines where a business is, where it wants to go, and how to get it there. It is a visual representation that organizes and presents important information related to future plans. Strategic roadmaps are a common approach to planning.
A strategic roadmap is a time-based plan that defines where a business is, where it wants to go, and how to get it there. It is a visual representation that organizes and presents important information related to future plans. Strategic roadmaps are a common approach to planning.
do you even read what you post, you've just confirmed what I've said :ROFLMAO:
 
So, a subscriber of mine asked the same question and then he wrote this:

FcvTpbC.jpg


I don't know how reliable this source is but this was 2 days ago.

I expect they have a roadmap, but this isn’t it. What they posted is a list of current priorities. What you are referring to is a bias underestimating how long something will take. That is the importance of milestones and achievable short term goals. It allows managers to more accurately predict speed of work and plan priorities and time accordingly.
 
Thread is a riot
The very fact that this latest beta brought in more functioning perks, and that there is still more perks to be made function, yet there is a thought of no new content is incredulous.
"Content" is this vague abyss out of reach, a greener hill on the other side. It cannot be met.
There is *plenty* to criticize on bannerlord but this is not on of them. A foundation is being laid down. The core module is being developed. The sandbox kingdom is a new module, just announced. Why don't we see where this goes before drawing the pitchforks? if in six months nothing is done I'll join the bandit party but I want to see first.
 
Thread is a riot
The very fact that this latest beta brought in more functioning perks, and that there is still more perks to be made function, yet there is a thought of no new content is incredulous.
"Content" is this vague abyss out of reach, a greener hill on the other side. It cannot be met.
There is *plenty* to criticize on bannerlord but this is not on of them. A foundation is being laid down. The core module is being developed. The sandbox kingdom is a new module, just announced. Why don't we see where this goes before drawing the pitchforks? if in six months nothing is done I'll join the bandit party but I want to see first.

I don't think anyone here brought the pitchforks out. I think voicing concerns and having a lot of interaction with those concerns between lots of different players is actually healthy and hopefully shows the developers or community managers or whoever skims this stuff, that the player community does have expectations.

Also, I really don't think the word content is an abyss. So many people have made it clear that we believe this game should have more interesting and complex features than Warband - which really isn't asking much. I guess some are happy with a great looking medieval battle simulator, but many of us thought Bannerlord would be more, much more and I've already conceded that my expectations were way too high.

Thread is a riot
The very fact that this latest beta brought in more functioning perks, and that there is still more perks to be made function, yet there is a thought of no new content is incredulous.
"Content" is this vague abyss out of reach, a greener hill on the other side. It cannot be met.
There is *plenty* to criticize on bannerlord but this is not on of them. A foundation is being laid down. The core module is being developed. The sandbox kingdom is a new module, just announced. Why don't we see where this goes before drawing the pitchforks? if in six months nothing is done I'll join the bandit party but I want to see first.

I also don't get the this mind set. FIXING perks is not new content. New content would be a MERCHANT Republic play style with supported game mechanics, or being able to control and dictate what your fiefs produced, or the endless plethora of great ideas not included in the game already.

Not already introduced into the game is the key take away here. Perks are already in the game, if you think fixing and balancing them is new content, well that's incredulous to me.
 
I also don't get the this mind set. FIXING perks is not new content. New content would be a MERCHANT Republic play style with supported game mechanics, or being able to control and dictate what your fiefs produced, or the endless plethora of great ideas not included in the game already.

Not already introduced into the game is the key take away here. Perks are already in the game, if you think fixing and balancing them is new content, well that's incredulous to me.

Agreed, fixing perks is just bug removal tasks.
 
I also don't get the this mind set. FIXING perks is not new content. New content would be a MERCHANT Republic play style with supported game mechanics, or being able to control and dictate what your fiefs produced, or the endless plethora of great ideas not included in the game already.

Not already introduced into the game is the key take away here. Perks are already in the game, if you think fixing and balancing them is new content, well that's incredulous to me.

there's a lot of problems with the game, many of its systems are barely implemented and some that are aren't in a good place. do you think a functioning kingdom system isn't a worthwhile addition because you can technically form one right now? clans that aren't afterthoughts. how about if the much talked about crime system existed beyond a simple scripted fight/influence gain and the vague implication of a roguery skill. if that is the case you are unlikely to see any "content" for a while. You understand 80% of the perks that are "in the game" literally do nothing right?
 
there's a lot of problems with the game, many of its systems are barely implemented and some that are aren't in a good place. do you think a functioning kingdom system isn't a worthwhile addition because you can technically form one right now? clans that aren't afterthoughts. how about if the much talked about crime system existed beyond a simple scripted fight/influence gain and the vague implication of a roguery skill. if that is the case you are unlikely to see any "content" for a while. You understand 80% of the perks that are "in the game" literally do nothing right?

Who said fixing the kingdom system isn't worthwhile? Not me, not sure what you mean there, no one is arguing that. We are simply pointing out that The Player Kingdom is already in the game, they are fixing it......not sure how you can consider fixing an existing system as new content.

Again, FIXING perks is not new content either.

Its seems like so many people are just happy with the bare minimum and I don't understand that. The Kingdom system should have BASE level mechanics. If you think fixing that is new content, then, I guess we just have to agree to disagree.
 
What is it with people and this knee-jerk response. The roadmap/plans and Steam store page all suggest the same thing: No substantial new features are planned or coming. Fixing up what is there is all that will happen. If you're not happy with the game in its current state - bugs aside - then you should be complaining, not trying to make excuses.


Yeah except it'll be way too late by then, won't it? Early Access release is an abomination, but since that can't be helped, what is the point of it if not to provide feedback? They don't need everyone to sit around saying "we trust you to make it good", we already did that by buying it - now we need to say if we think they're going in the wrong direction. And nobody is served by white knights shouting down valid criticism.

You probably think you're doing Taleworlds/the game a service - but you're not.

You don't make sense...
Do you not want their priority to be to fix the game?

Would you rather they produce some DLC content and then be like "Yeah, that's another 25.00 whatever currency you have"... All you'll be doing then is moaning that they haven't fixed the game you originally bought. It's a lose/lose scenario when you're already *****ing about DLC.

Just because they haven't revealed to you any DLC plans or additional features... doesn't mean there won't EVER be DLC or additional features. It means that through the course of EARLY-ACCESS, they're intending to fix the game that is in EARLY-ACCESS.

Jeez, pick your entitled dummy/pacifier up off the floor, dust it off and shove it back in your gob and stop talking -_-
 
You don't make sense...

I'll take that under advisement.

Do you not want their priority to be to fix the game?

Honestly, at this point? No, given that we're stuck with this abomination of a development/release process called "Early Access" I'd rather they focus on completing the game, then fix/polish/balance once all the bits are in there. However, it looks like Taleworlds consider "all the bits" already there, so that's rather worrying, considering how shallow and barebones the game is.

Would you rather they produce some DLC content and then be like "Yeah, that's another 25.00 whatever currency you have"... All you'll be doing then is moaning that they haven't fixed the game you originally bought. It's a lose/lose scenario when you're already *****ing about DLC.

Who's not making sense now? I never asked for DLC, talking about DLC is absurd and incredibly premature. So nice strawman, but no. I don't want DLC, neither does anybody with half a brain.

Just because they haven't revealed to you any DLC plans or additional features... doesn't mean there won't EVER be DLC or additional features. It means that through the course of EARLY-ACCESS, they're intending to fix the game that is in EARLY-ACCESS.

Again with the DLC. Say it with me: Nobody wants DLC at the current stage. And sure, it's possible that there are lots of planned, magical features coming but then they need to come out and say it. That's literally what this is about: We're concerned and unhappy that it looks like Taleworlds considers the game feature-complete, and only wants to fix up whatever is broken. Because that's IMO not acceptable.

Jeez, pick your entitled dummy/pacifier up off the floor, dust it off and shove it back in your gob and stop talking -_-

Yeah I don't think you're one to talk buddy, considering how you've failed to grasp the point of the thread.
 
++ mikey

Nobody wants DLC, we want just a nice game for 50 bucks. I don't want pay 10$ more for have a descent diplomacy, 10$ for a descent IA, these features must be in the vanilla game. DLC is new culture with their army or another map, naval battle etc... No the basic feature like diplo, IA, bugs, etc...
 
So, this thread argues the roadmap is lacking because it fails to outline new content. Insofar as I have seen, nine pages in, there still is no consensus on what new content actually entails.

OP is saying that new content has to be something radically new and cannot be anything already in the game, no matter how bareboned it is:

I also don't get the this mind set. FIXING perks is not new content. New content would be a MERCHANT Republic play style with supported game mechanics, or being able to control and dictate what your fiefs produced, or the endless plethora of great ideas not included in the game already.

Not already introduced into the game is the key take away here. Perks are already in the game, if you think fixing and balancing them is new content, well that's incredulous to me.

I take this to mean that fixing or fleshing out existing aspects of the game does not qualify as new content. It has to be a completely new aspect or mechanic that's added in.

However, when someone argues that this interpretation of new content is essentially DLC, he's absurd, premature and strawmanning the argument:

Would you rather they produce some DLC content and then be like "Yeah, that's another 25.00 whatever currency you have"... All you'll be doing then is moaning that they haven't fixed the game you originally bought. It's a lose/lose scenario when you're already *****ing about DLC.

Just because they haven't revealed to you any DLC plans or additional features... doesn't mean there won't EVER be DLC or additional features. It means that through the course of EARLY-ACCESS, they're intending to fix the game that is in EARLY-ACCESS.
Who's not making sense now? I never asked for DLC, talking about DLC is absurd and incredibly premature. So nice strawman, but no. I don't want DLC, neither does anybody with half a brain.

So what is new content? At this point it appears to occupy the mystical space of not present in the game in any way, shape or form and not being DLC worthy. It's also important to note that DLC and paid DLC are not one and the same, as that nuance seems to have eluded some.

In conclusion, this sentiment seems to summarize this thread up to this point quite well:

"Content" is this vague abyss out of reach, a greener hill on the other side. It cannot be met.
 
So what is new content? At this point it appears to occupy the mystical space of not present in the game in any way, shape or form and not being DLC worthy. It's also important to note that DLC and paid DLC are not one and the same, as that nuance seems to have eluded some.

Let me try to explain it to you, since you seem determined to harp on about this like it's somehow refuting all the perfectly valid criticism. Though you'll notice that I did not mention content, I'm mostly talking abut features. Not that the terminology difference is all that important to me - but it appears paramount to you, for some reason I don't quite get.

Whatever word you use, it's all about making the game less shallow, more fleshed out. This means that fixing the perks doesn't really count - that's a bugfix, or alternately a redesign, but in either case it's a (profoundly broken) but existing feature - so not new. It's not adding new armor and weapon designs - though those are welcome. It's not fixing the multitude of bugs, those are expected at this stage.

Exactly what needs fleshing out probably differs as per our various preferences. I'm all for discussing what everyone wants - what I take umbrage at is whenever anyone dares criticize, they're met by a chorus of "it's early access moron" "whiner" "manchild" and similar.

Personally, I'd like to see at least these (not exclusive):
A diplomacy system would be a new feature, since what we currently have by all accounts amount to little more than a call to Math.Random() every X hours, and if it returns the right value, war is declared. Re-enabling the existing button to initialize war/peace does not constitute a Diplomacy system, therefore that would be a new feature.

More quests - perhaps. Depends on their nature, but that could constitute new features, if they turn out to be more in-depth than "train X soldiers" or "carry item X to location Y.

Kingdom Management - is arguably existing, though given how barebones it is, fixing it might constitute enough to call it a new feature.

Dynasty features - again, arguable whether it's an existing feature, if it is it's not implemented: while players can marry and have children, NPC lords cannot (or at least do not) marry or generate children except for what they start out with, leaving the whole idea broken and pointless.

I don't understand the whole fixation with DLC, I'm not talking about, asking for or even mentioning DLC except in replies, and as for the distinction between paid/unpaid DLC - unpaid DLC is simply a game update, or a content patch (there's the magic word!). Paid DLC at this stage, or any time before the game is officially out of EA, would be enough to make me give up in disgust and label TW a scam company - but I should add that I don't see much risk of that happening.

Contrary to what the Council of White Knights keep claiming, a lot of us malcontents are well aware of what Early Access means. In fact, while I'm on the subject, I'll take the chance to say that a lot of people seem to be taking any criticism terribly personal, like it was their mothers we insulted. Conversely, just about everyone who cares enough to post about this absolutely loves the game, the franchise - and Taleworlds, too. Otherwise we'd do what tens of thousands have already done: shrugged our shoulders and stopped playing.

Taleworlds are not a gaggle of ten-year old girls, and they do not need cheerleaders or a chorus of yes-men - the sales numbers should be more than enough of a confidence boost, if any were needed. They need the fans to be critical where it's warranted, to make this game all it can be.
 
Let me try to explain it to you, since you seem determined to harp on about this like it's somehow refuting all the perfectly valid criticism. Though you'll notice that I did not mention content, I'm mostly talking abut features. Not that the terminology difference is all that important to me - but it appears paramount to you, for some reason I don't quite get.

Whatever word you use, it's all about making the game less shallow, more fleshed out. This means that fixing the perks doesn't really count - that's a bugfix, or alternately a redesign, but in either case it's a (profoundly broken) but existing feature - so not new. It's not adding new armor and weapon designs - though those are welcome. It's not fixing the multitude of bugs, those are expected at this stage.

Exactly what needs fleshing out probably differs as per our various preferences. I'm all for discussing what everyone wants - what I take umbrage at is whenever anyone dares criticize, they're met by a chorus of "it's early access moron" "whiner" "manchild" and similar.

Personally, I'd like to see at least these (not exclusive):
A diplomacy system would be a new feature, since what we currently have by all accounts amount to little more than a call to Math.Random() every X hours, and if it returns the right value, war is declared. Re-enabling the existing button to initialize war/peace does not constitute a Diplomacy system, therefore that would be a new feature.

More quests - perhaps. Depends on their nature, but that could constitute new features, if they turn out to be more in-depth than "train X soldiers" or "carry item X to location Y.

Kingdom Management - is arguably existing, though given how barebones it is, fixing it might constitute enough to call it a new feature.

Dynasty features - again, arguable whether it's an existing feature, if it is it's not implemented: while players can marry and have children, NPC lords cannot (or at least do not) marry or generate children except for what they start out with, leaving the whole idea broken and pointless.

I don't understand the whole fixation with DLC, I'm not talking about, asking for or even mentioning DLC except in replies, and as for the distinction between paid/unpaid DLC - unpaid DLC is simply a game update, or a content patch (there's the magic word!). Paid DLC at this stage, or any time before the game is officially out of EA, would be enough to make me give up in disgust and label TW a scam company - but I should add that I don't see much risk of that happening.

Contrary to what the Council of White Knights keep claiming, a lot of us malcontents are well aware of what Early Access means. In fact, while I'm on the subject, I'll take the chance to say that a lot of people seem to be taking any criticism terribly personal, like it was their mothers we insulted. Conversely, just about everyone who cares enough to post about this absolutely loves the game, the franchise - and Taleworlds, too. Otherwise we'd do what tens of thousands have already done: shrugged our shoulders and stopped playing.

Taleworlds are not a gaggle of ten-year old girls, and they do not need cheerleaders or a chorus of yes-men - the sales numbers should be more than enough of a confidence boost, if any were needed. They need the fans to be critical where it's warranted, to make this game all it can be.

New content? I believe it doesn't exist right now. Why?
Let's say you are TW game director, and you are reading steam approval reports, you will see something like:
-90% absolutely adore this game - super fun, blah blah, with all features even not working - "thumbs up"
-5% love the game, but because of all bugs and crashes can't recommend - "thumbs down"
-5% are negative because all bugs and crushes + not enough content - "thumbs down"

So, all you need to do in order to reach magical 95% approval before final release, is just (and "just" is a lot of work) to fix everything you have in game right now , to work properly. As game director how are you going to listen to 95% or 5%?

New , "major" content (things you would like to see in game) you will not see in next 8-10 months, before TW release modding tools.
To put it in game prospective: you are in arena equipped with tier 1 armour (5-10% negatives) and you are fighting against guy with tier 9 armour (90% approval) , yeah you are brave and all that , but guess who wins at the end ? :xf-grin:
 
So, this thread argues the roadmap is lacking because it fails to outline new content. Insofar as I have seen, nine pages in, there still is no consensus on what new content actually entails.

OP is saying that new content has to be something radically new and cannot be anything already in the game, no matter how bareboned it is:



I take this to mean that fixing or fleshing out existing aspects of the game does not qualify as new content. It has to be a completely new aspect or mechanic that's added in.

However, when someone argues that this interpretation of new content is essentially DLC, he's absurd, premature and strawmanning the argument:



So what is new content? At this point it appears to occupy the mystical space of not present in the game in any way, shape or form and not being DLC worthy. It's also important to note that DLC and paid DLC are not one and the same, as that nuance seems to have eluded some.

In conclusion, this sentiment seems to summarize this thread up to this point quite well:
this was the most reasonable calm toned response and interpretation of this whole thread I've seen, you sir are a poet.
 
I'm having a great time with the game as it stands, although there's lots of room for improvement. 250+ hours on steam.

I'll be fine if what we have gets refined and modders get the tools to really turn out something amazing. I'm so looking forward the the lotr mod.

I feel I've had my moneys worth. The levels of hyperbole and entitlement of some here is embarrasing. I put it down to the infantile narssistic age in which we live.
 
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