Ukraine Today

[nikosierra125]

Maybe he ran from his guardians to fight for his country freedom?

Sounds honourable and all that, but still no place for a child.

 

[rebelknight]

See the good side.

That'll strengthen him.
He fulfilled his rite of manhood.

Hes now officially a man.

 

[nikosierra125]

I'd consider him a good escapist, not 'a man' 

 

[Weaver]

I meant Eastern Ukraine. The Industrial centres that were mostly colonaized by people throughout the whole Union.

They are our people now. We must include them into the new paradigm or the whole thing will not work.

These photoes are from 18th. It was before a crackdown attempt.

Uh.. Fail.
But the images were just too powerful to pass. Especially the girl with scorched back, good lord.

 

[Jhessail]

It is idle. And pretty much powerless.

Not idle. Powerless, yeah, but not idle. There's really not much the EU can do, as I tried to point out before. Issuing travel bans to current administration? That hasn't helped much with Belarus, but sure, it would be symbolical. Aside from that, it's the usual condemnation of violence and urging Yanukovich to resume negotiations and for all sides to exercise restraint and calm.

Kids joined the army during WW1-2 willingly.

Sure they were mostly aged 15-17 but kids nevertheless.

And they were turned away and told to go back home. Jesus ****, get your basic facts straight. 17-year olds were accepted occasionally, and as things were turning back, they were being conscripted as well - but that wasn't routine. Germans recruiting 15-year olds was a desperate move happening at the very end, when pretty much all other sources of manpower had dried up.

Nasty pictures indeed.

 

[rebelknight]

It is idle. And pretty much powerless.

Not idle. Powerless, yeah, but not idle. There's really not much the EU can do, as I tried to point out before. Issuing travel bans to current administration? That hasn't helped much with Belarus, but sure, it would be symbolical. Aside from that, it's the usual condemnation of violence and urging Yanukovich to resume negotiations and for all sides to exercise restraint and calm.

Kids joined the army during WW1-2 willingly.

Sure they were mostly aged 15-17 but kids nevertheless.

Germans recruiting 15-year olds was a desperate move happening at the very end, when pretty much all other sources of manpower had dried up.

But it did happen so my fact were right.
So the ''Get your fact straight'' comment was just trolling on your part.

 

[Jhessail]

Your post made it look like every, or most, countries that participated in WW1 or WW2, conscripted or recruited 15-17 year olds, regularly. That did not happen. I'm not trolling you when I'm pointing out that you're exaggerating hugely, making something that only happened in one country, in the last period of the war, to be something routine.



BBC has an update:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26252679

Death toll at 26.

There has been widespread international alarm at the bloodshed in Kiev.

European Commission President Jose Manuel Barroso said he expected EU member states urgently to agree "targeted measures" against those responsible for the violence. Foreign ministers will hold an emergency meeting on Thursday

Russia's foreign ministry blamed the clashes on the "conniving politics of Western politicians and European bodies"

Swedish Foreign Minister Carl Bildt said Ukraine's president had "blood on his hands"

The head of Ukraine's Olympic committee in Sochi, Sergei Bubka, appealed to all sides to stop the violence

US Vice-President Joe Biden urged President Yanukovych by phone to de-escalate the situation, the White House said

You can always rely on authoritarian governments to point the fingers on outside saboteurs, whether it's Russia, Ukraine, Venezuela or Turkey.

 

[nikosierra125]

They should be pointing at themselves and their unneducated Rioters and Riot police alike.

 

[Untitled.]

I don't think they should be pointing at all. It does not befit ladies and gentlemen.

 

[Weaver]

Being uneducated and desperate is not a personality flaw. It's a product of reality we live in.
Check your privilege. Heh.

 

[nikosierra125]

It is a personality flaw in part of the government as a whole, they should educate, not take advantage of people's ignorance.

 

[Untitled.]

You obviously don't think being educated by the government is being taken advantage of by the government.

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[Trueten]

That hasn't helped much with Belarus.

Yes, but Ukraine is not Belarus. In Belarus Lukashenko was simply a dictator who received a support from people on forming 'stability'. Sources - people. In this case no sanctions to administrations can help.

In Ukraine starting from 2004 Oligarchs (Belarus has non of them) started to play a major role in froming the political system. They united in 2009 and supported Yanukovich. Source - oligarchs. But, as Machiavelli stated "A Ruler should allways work on those sources that helped him to claim the 'throne'". In this case, if you do not satisfy the one's that brought you to power (for example: common folk; army; oligarchs; money; some other government) they will make you go. Since Oligarchs promoted Yanukovich, they are practically the only forces that can bring him down. That's where EU and USA sanctions come from and they should be targeted wisely.

Although yeah, Yanukovich decided to switch the source to 'some other government'. We'll see where this will go. Sadly, Merkel and Obama look like to be 'BFF' with Putin.



Odessa is under pressure again. People got beaten. By this guys (hired criminals - so called titushki):

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In Khmelnitsky policemen shot a woman. So, Kiev is not the only region with gun fires now.

 

[Wellenbrecher]

Sadly, Merkel and Obama look like to be 'BFF' with Putin.

Negative.
Merkel and indeed her whole party traditionally sucks American ****. When she was elected - and ever since - German-Russian relations have cooled off noticeably.
The SPD ist the one with a taste for Russian manhood. Former chancellor Schröder of the SPD calling Putin a "flawless democrat" - "lupenreiner Demokrat", no idea how to translate it otherwise - and then getting a high paying job at Gazprom and stuff like that. Schröder in particular is a close personal friend of Putin in any case, so yeah.

 

[rebelknight]

Putin isn't all that bad.

Compared to that Venuzuelan **** and Erdogan.

 

[Mage246]

Putin's just better at it than they are.

 

[Hengwulf]

a gallery:
http://www.reuters.com/news/pictures/slideshow?articleId=USRTX191ML#a=1

When looking at all these photos I get some mixed feelings. I don't fully understand all the things going on in Ukraine. I am however awed by the protestors. The whole town seems to be on fire, people firing guns, throwing fire bombs, beating up the riot police. On the other hand I can not say I would do the same, such violence feels very strange to me.

We Dutch never protest anything. Maybe some lame demonstrations from the unions or the cultural elite being cut from some money. The last time we took up weapons was in the late 19th century.

 

[Vovolov]

The only thing we go out to the streets for is the Gay Pride parade.

 

[Trueten]

On the other hand I can not say I would do the same, such violence feels very strange to me.

Tell me, how would you react after this? (happened today)




The men with the bats hitting the doors are most likely provocators (note - nobody even touched them, the fire was against people outside on the street doing nothing). Seen such scenarios several times - people are gathered to protest near some government building, without any attempts to attack the building. Then some people come to assault the building, people get excited, come closer, support such actions and then police uses this scene to use force and punish 'rioting mob'. Usually they would all get arrested.

So, would you continue to be peaceful after this? Would you trust the government that acts like that in a further?

 

[Wellenbrecher]

"Protestors" inside and then they shoot the guys outside?
Yeah, that reeks of a setup. And an amateur-ish one at that.