Ukraine Today

[NPC99]

It's funny how Zelensky still denies it. Not good optics for his and Ukraine's trustworthiness, despite the West's high tolerance for Ukrainian propaganda.
If it was Russian, the Ukrainians would already have presentable proof putting the issue beyond doubt.

He's relying on reports from his Intelligence and Military. If Russia are correct, saying they didn't target anywhere within 35Kms of the Polish border, difficult to see an S-300 heading that far West without questions. I would expect a deflection to hit ground sooner. Even dubious Russian manufacture would have to go some to fly that far away from the incoming missiles. However, any rogue element in the UA would have to be nuts to use an S-300 to escalate the war as it wouldn't stand up to inspection. The only constant in war is SNAFU/FUBAR. So, who knows?

Someone in Washington needs to investigate the "Senior US Intelligence Official" who initially briefed the press on the condition of anonymity that Russian missiles crossed into Poland, killing two people.

IIRC the second Gulf of Tonkin incident didn't happen.

 

[Mad Vader]

IIRC the second Gulf of Tonkin incident didn't happen.

It's not a big deal either way, no one would start a war over this, they'll just make strong statements for a few days.
If you want to provoke NATO you would have to place a missile into the Pentagon, anything short of that is just foreplay.

 

[NPC99]

It's not a big deal either way, no one would start a war over this, they'll just make strong statements for a few days.
If you want to provoke NATO you would have to place a missile into the Pentagon, anything short of that is just foreplay.

Pentagon claiming 100% success for NASAMS interceptions. Unfortunately, less protection in reality. While a NASAMS can track 72 simultaneous targets, it just has 3 launchers with 6 missiles each, so, max 18 simultaneous intercepts per system. Currently, only 2 deployed in Ukraine (plus 1 similarly short-range IRIS-T air defence system from Germany).
However, I doubt they're intercepting any where near that number. NASAMS have a limited 25-40km range suggesting they can only protect local areas. With 3 launchers spread over 20km a NASAMS presents a 70-100Km intercept shield across attacking flightpaths. Russia's attacking on a broader front.

https://sgp.fas.org/crs/weapons/IF12230.pdf

Let's hope the other 6 NASAMS and 3 IRIS-T systems aren't long coming so Ukraine doesn't have to rely on S-300s, which turn up in Poland.

Belarus is close enough to hit Poland with an S-300, but they seem to be shipping their systems out to bolster Russian forces in Eastern Ukraine. https://news.yahoo.com/russia-transports-another-20-missiles-090347705.html

 

[Weaver]

I am sorry for our Polish friends. There are so many rockets in the sky lately. Could be Russian, could be our anti air. It’s an unfortunate collateral that will not change the big picture. Even if it hit on purpose, reply would be diplomatic. NATO will only consider a military reply if there are boots on the ground on NATO soil or a strike on some of their strategic objects.

On a different note, today is the first time I’m having a longer than 24hr black out. And rockets are still flying. This time they’re aiming at our power grid, but also at our heating facilities.
If they make Ukraine completely uninhabitable for civilians, this could give them massive advantage. A new win condition?

 

[diehold]

Likely a Ukrainian anti-air missile gone astray.
In any case it will be seen as collateral damage and it will be of no importance.

The Ukrainian armed forces have never even been estimated that high. Perhaps about 200,000 at the start of the war.
That number is made up. Are you watching Russian news? Where is that number from?
In any case losses that high would have meant a complete collapse of the Ukrainian army, which clearly hasn't happened.

Let's be honest posting links and acting like that proves anything is pointless. There is a lot at stake with this war more than most people realize and since that's the case there will be lots of lying on either side. But regardless of all the lies someone must be telling the truth. And if anyone really believes that Ukraine is going to defeat the Russian army they are delusional.

The Ukrainian army did collapse. Now it's a NATO army of foreign trained mercs/volunteers. There's a reason why Zelensky called for a NATO first strike. He knows its only a matter of time and his days are numbered. If Ukraine was winning why call for a first strike? He's terrified. As he should be.

Plus I'm surprised NPC99 is allowed to speak without his American daddy's permission. We all know the US are the ones coordinating everything on the ground. Ukraine is being used as a meat shield because the west doesn't want anything to do with fighting Russia's army. Russia has the most battle hardened fighting force on the planet. The only thing that scares the Russian military is the dollar.

 

[Vermillion_Hawk]

I hope you get drafted.

 

[AoC]

The Ukrainian army did collapse. Now it's a NATO army of foreign trained mercs/volunteers. There's a reason why Zelensky called for a NATO first strike. He knows its only a matter of time and his days are numbered. If Ukraine was winning why call for a first strike? He's terrified. As he should be.

Maybe it's also trained by NATO instructors, but it's bulk are ukrainian people, not NATO mercenaries. Yes, they use NATO hardware, but they still mostly use Warsaw Pact equipment.
I've seen most evidence about Polish citzen dying there, and it's really low number of reported cases, not on par with numbers reported by your media.

Vader, please shut up and don't insult our leader. Only we can do it.

 

[Antoine de Saint-Exupéry]

going to again repost our policy on the matter of the war for everyone reading (but especially @diehold - source your claims), and a general reminder to stay civil.

For anyone who may be curious, forum staff will not allow pro-invasion rhetoric on this platform, and Russian propaganda material is only tolerated for academic interest and analysis. It's to be kept in this thread, and accurately labeled for what it is when it is posted. This thread will not become a pocket of anti-Ukrainian sentiment or dehumanization. It will also not become a safe haven for dehumanizing Russians, who are subjected to such propaganda every day.

 

[diehold]

going to again repost our policy on the matter of the war for everyone reading (but especially @diehold - source your claims), and a general reminder to stay civil.

I can make any claim I wish. If you don't like my claims then just disregard them entirely. It's their choice to continue to engage me in conversation. That's on them. And if talking about the war is problematic then maybe this isn't the correct forum for that discussion in the first place. But I see Taleworlds will side with the side that cries the most even when the other side has been more than civil. And they choose to turn a blind eye to those who started not being civil in the first place. I never stated I was pro invasion. Apparently stating that Russia is winning is what's really not accepted or tolerated on this platform.

For the moderators, you have no idea what is true or isn't true about claims regardless of links or claims. Don't act as if you do.

I hope you get drafted.

Butthurt already?

 

[NPC99]

Plus I'm surprised NPC99 is allowed to speak without his American daddy's permission.

Alliances aren't a matter of servitude in the West, whatever happens in the East. Lot's of information is suppressed by all sides in war, however mobile phones and social media make that more difficult, giving enough information to sift fact from fiction, if you're prepared to park prejudice and approach it with an open mind.

The Ukrainian army did collapse. Now it's a NATO army of foreign trained mercs/volunteers.

IIRC Zelensky only recruited about 20,000 foreign volunteers for his International Legion. Other than that there's just the 1,000 strong Georgian Legion. https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-...ainst-russia-says-georgian-commander-12633139 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Legion_of_Territorial_Defence_of_Ukraine
It doesn't take a genius to realise that 21,000 foreigners aren't enough to force Putin to mobilise 300,000 conscripts even though 3,000 of them are Brits.

Nothing NATO about the two Chechen battalians in the Ukrainian International Legion.

Meet the Chechen battalion joining Ukraine to fight Russia — and fellow Chechens

While many Chechen fighters have deployed in Ukraine for Russia, this group is there to defend the country from the Russians.

www.npr.org

Also Russian troops defecting into the International Legion have nothing to do with NATO. https://www.kyivpost.com/russias-wa...-freedom-of-russia-legion-fighter-caesar.html

BTW Putin claimed 16,000 middle eastern volunteers supporting Russia in Ukraine. IDK how many were actually mobilised. https://icct.nl/publication/foreign-fighters-volunteers-mercenaries-in-ukraine/

 

[diehold]

Alliances aren't be a matter of servitude in the West, whatever happens in the East. Lot's of information is suppressed by all sides in war, however mobile phones and social media make that more difficult, giving enough information to sift fact from fiction, if you're prepared to park prejudice and approach it with an open mind.

IIRC Zelensky only recruited about 20,000 foreign volunteers for his International Legion. Other than that there's just the 1,000 strong Georgian Legion. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...fighting-ukraine-against-russia-b2100240.html https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Legion_of_Territorial_Defence_of_Ukraine
It doesn't take a genius to realise that 21,000 foreigners aren't enough to force Putin to mobilise 300,000 conscripts even though 3,000 of them are Brits.

Alliances are entirely a matter of servitude and that's especially true in this case. Mobile phones and social media just create more to sift through it doesn't make fact any easier to attain. It has nothing to do with prejudice. And maybe it's not me with the closed mind.

No but to obtain all his stated objectives his original mobilization wasn't enough. But it appears it was enough to cause at least 200,000 ukrainian casualties in the early part of the war as stated by another account on here. You're running out of valuable munitions and manpower and the US doesn't have the industrial base to support you. It's only a matter of time.

 

[eddiemccandless]

Alliances are entirely a matter of servitude and that's especially true in this case. Mobile phones and social media just create more to sift through it doesn't make fact any easier to attain. It has nothing to do with prejudice. And maybe it's not me with the closed mind.

No but to obtain all his stated objectives his original mobilization wasn't enough. But it appears it was enough to cause at least 200,000 ukrainian casualties in the early part of the war as stated by another account on here. You're running out of valuable munitions and manpower and the US doesn't have the industrial base to support you. It's only a matter of time.

I still see no sources here. Which honestly I am ok with. Have your heard about the last news on the involvement of Martian volunteers on the Ukrainian side? It's crazy, they got lasers and all sorts of funky stuff. I give Russia ten days.

 

[diehold]

I still see no sources here. Which honestly I am ok with. Have your heard about the last news on the involvement of Martian volunteers on the Ukrainian side? It's crazy, they got lasers and all sorts of funky stuff. I give Russia ten days.

I heard the martians were blown to pieces by russian artillery. Even mars won't save ukraine from the inevitable..

 

[AoC]

I still see no sources here. Which honestly I am ok with. Have your heard about the last news on the involvement of Martian volunteers on the Ukrainian side? It's crazy, they got lasers and all sorts of funky stuff. I give Russia ten days.

High casualties link if you can't use simple google, can you stop posting martian stuff already?

Ukraine’s high casualty rate could bring war to tipping point

Analysis: Kyiv’s fighting strength is stretched, yet Russia could now benefit from a pause in fighting

www.theguardian.com

Also this:

MoA - Ukraine SitRep - Casualties Leak - Ukraine Admits Russian Breakthrough - Southern Front Paralysis

 

[Vermillion_Hawk]

That was in the middle of the Russian counteroffensive, 100 to 200 casualties a day is very likely not the normal state of things. While Putler's Volkssturm can certainly clog trenches and chokepoints for a little while, very little has happened that would indicate a serious collapse from the Ukrainian side that the article suggests. On the contrary, the Russian position is looking increasingly untenable and it seems like an outcome where it ceases to exist as a unified state is a distant possibility, provided things are to continue the way they have been.

 

[eddiemccandless]

High casualties link if you can't use simple google, can you stop posting martian stuff already?

Ukraine’s high casualty rate could bring war to tipping point

Analysis: Kyiv’s fighting strength is stretched, yet Russia could now benefit from a pause in fighting

www.theguardian.com

Thanks! I can't help but notice that this link does not state the total number of casualties for the Ukrainians to be 300k, or 200k (our friend @diehold seems to have shifted on that a bit). So I don't think it's where he was getting those numbers from, I am just curious to see a source for that quote.

Forgive my Martians, just trying to fit with the general tone of conversation

 

[Antoine de Saint-Exupéry]

I can make any claim I wish

and i can mute you if you refuse to source them. so source them.

 

[Weaver]

Thanks! I can't help but notice that this link does not state the total number of casualties for the Ukrainians to be 300k, or 200k (our friend @diehold seems to have shifted on that a bit). So I don't think it's where he was getting those numbers from, I am just curious to see a source for that quote.

Forgive my Martians, just trying to fit with the general tone of conversation

There's always some putz who'd say anything to make people "butthurt".
The article was written in June. The situation on the front has improved big time since then.
We've just had electricity back. Will last a few hours, so I'm off to charge everything that can be charged.
Life without power sucks. I have underappreciated it.

 

[AoC]

Thanks! I can't help but notice that this link does not state the total number of casualties for the Ukrainians to be 300k, or 200k (our friend @diehold seems to have shifted on that a bit). So I don't think it's where he was getting those numbers from, I am just curious to see a source for that quote.

Forgive my Martians, just trying to fit with the general tone of conversation

See follow up link, to be honest it looks inflated a bit, but there is 191k casualties listed which is very close to 200k number claimed.
It have fun quote:

It would be astonished though if the Russian army and its allies have more than one tenth of those.

Considering that russian army use conscripts as artillery bait, they might have quite high losses. Especially with so high corruption which means they already stolen and sold a lot of equipment that is still listed as available. I was skeptical about their kleptocracy, but looks like they can sell anything for correct price.

 

[Antoine de Saint-Exupéry]

See follow up link, to be honest it looks inflated a bit,

it looks inflated because your follow up link is from a deeply unserious blog of "anti-imperialist" (lol) dip****s.